Meditation experiences: What do they mean?

[Orbit]

Since we've been discussing related things here in Mysticism DIR, I thought I would share a meditation experience I had today and ask for insights, and invite you to share your own.

OK, so I was doing my regular meditation routine: lit my candle and incense, rang my bell and put on a Medicine Buddha mantra. I cleared my mind, got into the zone, and let the mantra wash over me. I pictured Medicine Buddha in the mind's eye and then something odd happened.

QuanYin (bodhissatva of compassion) filled my mind's eye. I spontaneously lifted my arms, palms upward, and felt enveloped by compassion. It's like I merged with QuanYin. I stayed there for about half an hour, just experiencing this. I felt like i *was* compassionate energy. I don't think I was successful at grounding all the energy at the end; I need a better way to do that.

But here's my question. Do these experiences have a deeper meaning? Should I be looking for one? Or is the point of the experience the experience itself?

 

[Windwalker]

IMO, it's about what is available to you as you learn to put yourself in that place of receptivity. The more you experience this in yourself, the more you realize it as yourself. The freer you become. It's teaching you to be yourself, free of all the masks. It comes from you. Welcome to who you are.

 

[Baladas]

When I was a Christian, I had experiences similar to what you have described, but the figure I saw was Jesus.
At the time, these experiences strengthened my faith immensely and gave me an amazing sense of comfort and self-acceptance.
I believe that I agree with Windwalker that these experiences come from within ourselves.

 

[lovemuffin]

For me, the question "is there a deeper meaning?" is a question of faith. By which I mean both that I don't think it can be demonstrated that there is a deeper meaning in an objectively certain way, and also that the search for meaning itself requires an openness to what is unknown, and that is already faith.

I'm not sure it's possible to give an answer to the question of whether one should seek a deeper meaning without in some way begging the question of there being a meaning in the choosing of a moral point of view that would give weight to the "should". That said, whether I should or not, for me it feels necessary to do so, and I can't imagine not seeking, although in some way the question itself feels deeper than any answer might be. "Faith seeking understanding" is a traditional Christian description of theology, but I think also it's important that it is always seeking. The transcendent remains transcendent, even if it is also experienced immanently. It is never entirely exhausted in the search.

These kinds of considerations lead me to treat the question of "meaning" as being also a question about a transcendent divinity (what is this enveloping love?), and thus relating it to a question of theology, but treated in a speculative and ever-unfinished way, considering the nature of experience and of faith. The weakness of "theisms", it seems to me, is that they have been crystallized into absolute statements, made into systems, taken as having an authority that belongs to themselves, rather than being only a reflection of a very human and fallible experience of this divinity, whatever it may be. And yet, as reflections, I find meaning in them. I like this reflection from Panikkar:

"Monotheism teaches us that reality has an ever-transcendent dimension.
Deism strives to harmonize God and Reason.
Pantheism stresses the all-pervading nature of this divine dimension.
Polytheism reminds us that the Divine is irreducible to any singularity, of whatever type -- intellectual, ontic, etc.
Atheism draws our attention to the fact that Man is an adult who, coming of age, has to confront himself with the apophatic character of the Ultimate.
Skepticism makes us aware that we cannot be absolutely certain of anything. The Ground of our certainty could only be God, and we are not it." (Rhythm of Being, p.169)​

Additionally, an awareness of the limits of seeking after certain meaning, or of theology as knowledge, leads to a deeper appreciation of the value of experience in a practical and "lived" way, as basically all traditions affirm. "By their fruits you will know them" is a way of expressing this. Fullness of life is not only a question of finding meaning intellectually, even if I also don't think the intellectual dimension of life can be entirely neglected. There is a certain tension I feel between the aspiration for meaning, which is itself something very deep within me, and the experience of peace/joy/love in prayer or meditation in which one rests and feels almost no need at all for reflection. At least for me, at this moment, this tension feels almost quintessentially human and I'm not sure I feel it needs to be resolved one way or another. There is a striving in search of meaning (the transcendent, divinity, God, ...), and there is also a resting in Being, in the (human) experience as fullness itself. I think both have a value in some way.

 

[YmirGF]

But here's my question. Do these experiences have a deeper meaning? Should I be looking for one? Or is the point of the experience the experience itself?

And what place do your existing belief structures have in the manufacturing of these experiences? There is always a "deeper" meaning, especially in elaborate visions/experiences. Frankly, most are highly metaphorical and are often graphics visualizations of ideas. How else can other aspects of identity communicate with "us" save through our expectations about how reality behaves? Imo, part of the reason why the meaning of these "deeper" experiences are so elusive to our conscious minds is that we are not used to looking at our beliefs and their possible ramifications.

QuanYin (bodhissatva of compassion) filled my mind's eye. I spontaneously lifted my arms, palms upward, and felt enveloped by compassion. It's like I merged with QuanYin. I stayed there for about half an hour, just experiencing this. I felt like i *was* compassionate energy. I don't think I was successful at grounding all the energy at the end; I need a better way to do that.

What I see here is that it was not literally Quanny that you mind-melded with, but rather, that idealized portion of your own being that radiates compassion. The power behind such an experience can often awe a person so that they assume visitation (external source) rather than an elaborate ruse enacted by the larger identity to bring a point home to the focus personality (you). I don't mean a ruse in a mean sense, but rather like a trick of the light, as it were, to get you to see that you are a part of this and it is not something solely that is outside of you. Perhaps I'm just being silly though.

 

[Mindmaster]

I've briefly commented on this before, but I think it is critical to understand that these secondary effects while interesting indicate no progress or useful information. To me, meditation is a valuable tool that improves ones control of their mind and emotions and lays the groundwork for true spiritual discovery... But, it is definitely the ground floor and merely enables someone to go further down the road. I think it is important not to mistake these manifestations for anything special or you might well be distracted from the end game. I find it particularly easy with meditation to run into that problem because some people experience hallucinatory effects during the practice. While fun, they're not really important. I just view meditation as a tool that anyone can use regardless of their path, but one can be similarly calmed and enlightened by a particularly intense roll in the hay... People are naturally less aggressive, more rational, and compassionate after a good romp as well.

 

[Nakosis]

What I see here is that it was not literally Quanny that you mind-melded with, but rather, that idealized portion of your own being that radiates compassion. The power behind such an experience can often awe a person so that they assume visitation (external source) rather than an elaborate ruse enacted by the larger identity to bring a point home to the focus personality (you). I don't mean a ruse in a mean sense, but rather like a trick of the light, as it were, to get you to see that you are a part of this and it is not something solely that is outside of you. Perhaps I'm just being silly though.

Your are probably correct. It's is just the experience of "enlightenment" that comes from these experiences, I can't fathom being the source of them. Sometimes the profoundness of the experience seems beyond something I'd even be capable of imagining.

If we are the source, is it something we should really be trusting? I suppose I do because it make so much sense after the "revelation". However I'm always questioning whether I'm just fooling myself... again.

 

[YmirGF]

Your are probably correct. It's is just the experience of "enlightenment" that comes from these experiences, I can't fathom being the source of them. Sometimes the profoundness of the experience seems beyond something I'd even be capable of imagining.

If we are the source, is it something we should really be trusting? I suppose I do because it make so much sense after the "revelation". However I'm always questioning whether I'm just fooling myself... again.

I think you can trust the visions to a degree, just stay clear of interpreting them literally. If you have a vision of Christ, it is more likely your idealized vision of Christ, rather than the being itself that has come to play. In a very real sense, you meet your own creativity.

 

[Windwalker]

I think you can trust the visions to a degree, just stay clear of interpreting them literally. If you have a vision of Christ, it is more likely your idealized vision of Christ, rather than the being itself that has come to play. In a very real sense, you meet your own creativity.

One way to understand this is that you are in fact encountering something which is ontologically real, but that it is our minds which supply how that looks. It follows cultural lines largely. A Christian sees Christ. A Hindu sees Krishna. A Buddhist sees Avalokiteshvara with a thousand arms. What they are experiencing is the same however.

I would say it's more than just one's active imagination, or "all in your head" sort of nonsense. I just think how we conceptualize distinctions between self and other become more and more blurred the deeper you go. Ultimately it is us, but it's not "us" in the sense of our small little ego minds making it up out of nothing. Along the way you encounter the subtle reality, of which you also are. Consider it like being greeting by your Self, whom you see as other along the way.

 

[Nakosis]

Consider it like being greeting by your Self, whom you see as other along the way.

Honestly, that's how I've come to see it.
Nice to hear a validation about it from someone else. Kind of hard to express what seeing this written by someone else means.

 

[YmirGF]

Honestly, that's how I've come to see it.
Nice to hear a validation about it from someone else. Kind of hard to express what seeing this written by someone else means.

You see and appreciate, apparently, just how meaningful discussions of this kind can be. Silence is important, but never underestimate how valuable our imperfect communications, from human animal to human animal, can be.

 

[Windwalker]

You see and appreciate, apparently, just how meaningful discussions of this kind can be. Silence is important, but never underestimate how valuable our imperfect communications, from human animal to human animal, can be.

Well, amen to that Bro. Mouse.

 

[Orbit]

One way to understand this is that you are in fact encountering something which is ontologically real, but that it is our minds which supply how that looks. It follows cultural lines largely. A Christian sees Christ. A Hindu sees Krishna. A Buddhist sees Avalokiteshvara with a thousand arms. What they are experiencing is the same however.

I would say it's more than just one's active imagination, or "all in your head" sort of nonsense. I just think how we conceptualize distinctions between self and other become more and more blurred the deeper you go. Ultimately it is us, but it's not "us" in the sense of our small little ego minds making it up out of nothing. Along the way you encounter the subtle reality, of which you also are. Consider it like being greeting by your Self, whom you see as other along the way.

Two thoughts:
If it's not us, what is it?
What exactly does "subtle reality" mean? Psychological reality?

 

[Windwalker]

Two thoughts:
If it's not us, what is it?

Always these questions, have you.. I said above, "Ultimately it is us, but it's not "us" in the sense of our small little ego minds making it up out of nothing." Doesn't this answer that?

What exactly does "subtle reality" mean? Psychological reality?

Book of Yoda, chapter V

For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.
​

In the great traditions, from which Yoda descends, there are three bodies, gross body, subtle body, and causal body. Each body has corresponding energies, gross energy which you see and feel with the senses, subtle energies which are seen and felt through higher awareness; prana, chi, subtle light, chakra energies, etc, and causal energies the sense of pure being felt in all other bodies gross and subtle. It corresponds to waking (gross), dreaming (subtle), and deep sleep (formless causal).

So what you experience in meditation practices, at the subtle level, is access of conscious awareness to these bodies or energies not restricted to the senses of the gross form. They are subtle forms, which we all have at all times. You experience this as Light, luminosity, higher mind, deity forms, etc. But it is not something that is just you and you alone, but all living things are energy, as Master Yoda says. You become attuned to seeing, sensing, and inhabiting these energies consciously. Enter here now the "Where's your evidence!?" crowds.

 

[Nakosis]

My feeling is the meaning of the experience is whatever you personally take away from it. There maybe no meaning beyond that.

We can share and maybe through such experiences, find common understanding, but that is not necessarily a necessity.

I have had some profound experiences which have alter my perspective on who I am and life in general. I think this has allowed me to be more effective and compassionate when dealing with other folks.

Sometimes I tend to over-analyze the mechanics of the experience, In doing so I also begin to lose sight meaning of the experience. If I benefited from the experience, then I benefited. Isn't that what is really important? That we benefited from the experience?

 

[Ouroboros]

When I was a Christian, I had experiences similar to what you have described, but the figure I saw was Jesus.

Same here!

It totally recognized Orbit's experience, but from a Christian perspective.

 

[Ouroboros]

Two thoughts:
If it's not us, what is it?
What exactly does "subtle reality" mean? Psychological reality?

The underlying substrate of existence, from where all things emerge. Forces, energy, motion, chaos, order, matter, mind, all of it emerges from that, which we are part of and is within us. We are one with it. But in normal life, we see ourselves as separated or another part than this underlying reality; that's the illusion. That's my goofy way of explaining it.

 

[Ouroboros]

Enter here now the "Where's your evidence!?" crowds.

Prove it!

 

[mystic64]

Since we've been discussing related things here in Mysticism DIR, I thought I would share a meditation experience I had today and ask for insights, and invite you to share your own.

OK, so I was doing my regular meditation routine: lit my candle and incense, rang my bell and put on a Medicine Buddha mantra. I cleared my mind, got into the zone, and let the mantra wash over me. I pictured Medicine Buddha in the mind's eye and then something odd happened.

QuanYin (bodhissatva of compassion) filled my mind's eye. I spontaneously lifted my arms, palms upward, and felt enveloped by compassion. It's like I merged with QuanYin. I stayed there for about half an hour, just experiencing this. I felt like i *was* compassionate energy. I don't think I was successful at grounding all the energy at the end; I need a better way to do that.

But here's my question. Do these experiences have a deeper meaning? Should I be looking for one? Or is the point of the experience the experience itself?

Well, based on my experience, what you are experiencing Orbit is your heart center being the universal ground. In order for one to truely experience the higher understandings their heart center has to become the universal ground and all things are grounded by/through their heart center. When this happens one opens a portal that can not be opened using anything else as a ground. From there it becomes an ever expanding universe of understanding and knowledge in a spherical sense both inward and outward with one's heart center being the center and ground to the experience. Until one has achieved in a permanant sense what you have experienced they are just banging around in this world of things which is actually a really big world that one can spend an eternity exploring. But once one's heart center becomes the universal ground they enter into a reality that is not of this world anymore. Should you look for a deeper meaning? Sure why not? But do keep in mind that that deeper meaning is going to be something that is way beyond what you have considered possible in your wildest imagination. Folks teach that the key is unconditional love and compassion, but they do not actually understand what that key is. Unconditional love and compassion is what you feel/experience when your heart center becomes the universal ground and the portal is opened. They are not the goal, they are the result.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

OK, so I was doing my regular meditation routine: lit my candle and incense, rang my bell and put on a Medicine Buddha mantra. I cleared my mind, got into the zone, and let the mantra wash over me. I pictured Medicine Buddha in the mind's eye and then something odd happened.
QuanYin (bodhissatva of compassion) filled my mind's eye. I spontaneously lifted my arms, palms upward, and felt enveloped by compassion. It's like I merged with QuanYin. I stayed there for about half an hour, just experiencing this. I felt like i *was* compassionate energy. I don't think I was successful at grounding all the energy at the end; I need a better way to do that.

Interesting to hear. Did the compassionate feeling stay with you for a long time? I remember having some similar experiences in Tibetan Buddhism, though I never really took to the visualisation approach. What really does it for me is the natural world, particularly looking out to sea and looking out from high places. Somehow the physical sense of space and perspective resonates.