Meditation & science

[Dipintus]

I'm not even sure this is the right place for this thread, but I wanted to know what are your opinions on the recent findings on the effects of meditation.
I'll post the wikipedia link instead of looking for a nice looking catalogue out of sheer laziness: Research on meditation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The one that most impressed me, even though it's just a preliminary study, is that of the Nobel laureate Elizabeth Blackburn on its effect on telomerase: Intensive meditation training, immu... [Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

On a rather sour note I must say I've met quite a few people who just dismissed these studies without as much as a single look. As an atheist myself I find this kind of close mindedness rather disturbing, especially since it usually comes from those who are more eager to praise the virtues of rationality and scientific inquiry.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Yes, this is why I think they should teach meditation in public schools, it is scientifically accurate, but just don't make it a required class...

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I've looked a little bit into scientific studies of the effects of meditation. However, whenever it comes to anything remotely religious, and especially Eastern, most scientists dismiss things like this outright. So it's really hard to find any scientific studies that are commonly accepted. But I can speak from personal experience, and say how much mediation has changed me, and how much it has helped my life. That I can be sure of.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Yes, this is why I think they should teach meditation in public schools, it is scientifically accurate, but just don't make it a required class...

Making meditation its own class would be a bad idea. Teaching it as part of physical education or something like that would make more sense.

 

[Quintessence]

Making meditation its own class would be a bad idea. Teaching it as part of physical education or something like that would make more sense.

I was first introduced to meditation through a phys ed class. Sometimes it is incorporated into programs, but it depends on the instructor you have. We only did it for one day and it was a guided meditation that included relaxation techniques and positive affirmations. It was a profound experience for me at the time and I don't think there was anybody in that room who didn't love that class session.

Because of my personal experiences with meditation, I find the science of it patently unsurprising. What will be more interesting is when spellcraft gets research focus. Spellcraft works as well. I doubt this will happen any time soon, though. There's even more of a professional taboo against things like that.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Making meditation its own class would be a bad idea. Teaching it as part of physical education or something like that would make more sense.

But then it'd be required, and there's no good reason why meditation should be required to learn.

 

[Quintessence]

But then it'd be required, and there's no good reason why meditation should be required to learn.

Would you care to be more specific as to the reasons given this argument can be made for any subject in existence?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

But then it'd be required, and there's no good reason why meditation should be required to learn.

There are many good reasons, but I agree. If people don't want to explore their depths, they shouldn't have to.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Would you care to be more specific as to the reasons given this argument can be made for any subject in existence?

I'm not sure what you're asking but I'm assuming you're asking why it can be made in any school subject at all? Correct me if I'm wrong if that's not the question.

I think if people truly want to feel more what many define as "enlightened" then they should be able to, it is proven by science to have worked, so if they want to psychologically feel good then they can. I sure wouldn't sign up for this class but I do know people who would. I wouldn't sign up because I think it's far more important to learn Math, Science, Agriculture, History, etc.

There are many good reasons, but I agree. If people don't want to explore their depths, they shouldn't have to.

I personally see it more psychological anyway than Phys ed. anyway

 

[Quintessence]

Sum, I was asking why, specifically, you think meditation shouldn't be a required subject. Perhaps more broadly, how do we decide what subjects are required learning in the first place?

Interesting point about meditation being more psychology than physical education, but my physical education classes included general health and wellness. Maybe my district just did things differently; psychology is definitely part of health and wellness. I'd definitely be a proponent of expanding physical education to health and wellness if it's not being included elsewhere. We did basic nutrition, mental health, and learned about Maslow's pyramid in my high school phys ed classes.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Sum, I was asking why, specifically, you think meditation shouldn't be a required subject. Perhaps more broadly, how do we decide what subjects are required learning in the first place?

IMO, I think it should be available in school to learn if you're concerned about feeling 'enlightened' in that way. Many don't know how to meditate, it's not simple to learn.

That's a tough question, how we decide what subjects are required, but I think what should be required is those classes that help you in your everyday life and is really important (science, math, agricultural, engineering, history, biology).

Scoring high in Meditation Concepts (assuming that's what they'd call the class) will not get you a decent job as far as I know.

Interesting point about meditation being more psychology than physical education, but my physical education classes included general health and wellness. Maybe my district just did things differently; psychology is definitely part of health and wellness. I'd definitely be a proponent of expanding physical education to health and wellness if it's not being included elsewhere. We did basic nutrition, mental health, and learned about Maslow's pyramid in my high school phys ed classes.

I don't really think meditation has to do with health and well being, although it keeps you emotionally balanced and all, but to me that's not as important or the same thing as physical well being.

 

[Quintessence]

Hah! Listen to most high school students talking and they'll tell you many of the subjects you listed are completely worthless! While we might be tempted to brush off these protests to the impetuosity of youth, they do have a point. Most of these subjects are "knowing that" (e.g. textbook/factual knowledge) rather than "knowing how" (e.g. experiential/procedural knowledge) exercises. "Knowing how" skills (which would include meditation) are used more in everyday life than textbook knowledge. Even though I'm a career scientist, I can honestly say meditation is significantly more useful in my everyday life than knowing arcane botanical terminology. I only need to know this obscure terminology because I happened to like botany as a career angle. Meditation would be useful regardless of my career choice. It can be considered a basic life skill. Basic life skill like knowing how to cook, properly fold laundry, and do your taxes. *chuckles*

I can see your point on the importance of physical over emotional well-being. This is the stance people seem to have in our culture. More and more we're recognizing though, that you can't separate mind and body. Mental health is part of physical health, as the mind is part of the physical body (specifically the brain), yes?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You have to admit though, those subjects get you further in life than meditation. You can live without meditation, it is mostly pointless to meditate IMO, especially when compared to Algebra and Science classes.

Also, I am a highschool student and I do not tell myself different Nor do my friends, nor do many adults I talk to. The ones who say those subjects are unimportant will most likely say that all school is unimportant, which is not extremely true.

 

[Quintessence]

In our current society, sure, I'll grant that these skills get you "further" in life with regards to what our society tends to tell us we should value (e.g. having a job that makes you lots of money). Other cultures, eras, and individuals may have somewhat different values. I personally care much less about "making it" in life than being content and happy (which is something a skill like meditation assists with).

You're a high school student? Dang. I had you pegged as a college undergrad. *laughs*

 

[The Sum of Awe]

In our current society, sure, I'll grant that these skills get you "further" in life with regards to what our society tends to tell us we should value (e.g. having a job that makes you lots of money). Other cultures, eras, and individuals may have somewhat different values. I personally care much less about "making it" in life than being content and happy (which is something a skill like meditation assists with).

You're a high school student? Dang. I had you pegged as a college undergrad. *laughs*

Yes, I agree, meditation may make you happier, and if people do have the same goal in life (prefer being happy and mentally fulfilled rather than making a lot of money and being unenlightened) then they could choose that class, but if they prefer more money over being mentally happy, or even if they don't get mentally happy from meditation like me, they shouldn't have to choose meditation.

Also thanks, I take that as a compliment

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Science is the process and quest for understanding. Many cultures have standardized the processes, but the nature stays.

It appears to me that what science was seeking was what happens with meditation. While this can be fascinating, what is the point?

The important part of meditation, whether science can back it up or not, is the personal transformation.

 

[mycorrhiza]

Meditation should definitely be taught in school. Preferably in phys ed class. Of course it should be a "secular" kind of meditation, as we should separate religious practice from education.

I'm pretty sure that my grades would have improved and that I would have been less stressed out, had I learned about meditation in high school.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I agree but please don't make it mandatory.

 

[Dipintus]

Meditation should definitely be taught in school.

I agree, although it would be kinda tricky to grade.
I'll digress a little: I remember a talk by Ramchandran on how teaching humor and various forms of lateral thinking could have greatly helped children developping their intelligence.
School could be pretty interesting in the future decades.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

I don't believe anyone could pitch meditation in school in a way that it would be accepted. Rather, it may be better to set aside time during school for personal reflection, then allow individuals to do so on their own.