Israel and Judah are condemned in both chapters; reading one line out of context, and making it into the Tanakh.
Yeshua is HaShem.
Sorry really don't get that reference, can you explain your exegesis please?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Messiah Ben Joseph versus Messiah Ben David
- Thread starter Ben Avraham
- Start date
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
When ancient Israel was rejected by the Lord according to Psalms 78:67-70 and removed by the Assyrians into an endless exile, Judah remained as the modern Israel over the whole Land of Israel. (Isaiah 48:1) To refer to Yeshua as HaShem, is the climax of idolatry. (Deuteronomy 4:15,16; Isaiah 46:5) Regarding the analogy between Job and Immanuel is that HaShem was not pleased with the way the friends of Job spoke with Job. So, He required of them a sacrifice but executed by Job and not by them so that HaShem could forgive their lack of wisdom. It means that only after Job offered "their" sacrifices, they could be forgiven. That's the role of Immanuel in Job in favor of his friends who were Gentiles. BTW, Job represented Israel and his friends the Gentiles.
Last edited:
Careful, there are prophesies within the Messianic age, that there will no longer be death.
In the Messianic age, not one will die.
Human beings must be known to be loved; but Divine beings must be loved to be known. Blaise Pascal
Keep repeating the same illogical statement 'over and over again, and expecting different results'; doesn't make it anymore real.
Answer this question: David wrote the Psalms; how many times after then was Judah cut off?
There are multiple times in the Tanakh YHVH Elohim appeared in human form, and the whole point of all the prophets is that YHVH is coming here to be king.
States that to prevent the children of Israel making even more idols, YHVH appeared as fire, so you didn't make even more idols....Yet in Genesis YHVH Elohim walked with Adam.
Think what you're not understanding is that the God Most High (El Elyon) is the CPU, the manifestor of reality, that is without form...
Seems the Jews have been confused ever since the return from the Babylonian exile.
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am El, and there is none else; Elohim are nothing like me.
YHVH Elohim is a manifestation from El Elyon; feel sorry for you all, as you no longer even known the God Most High or one of his sons Yeshua Elohim (YHVH).
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Keep repeating the same illogical statement 'over and over again, and expecting different results'; doesn't make it anymore real. Answer this question: David wrote the Psalms; how many times after then was Judah cut off? There are multiple times in the Tanakh YHVH Elohim appeared in human form, and the whole point of all the prophets is that YHVH is coming here to be king. States that to prevent the children of Israel making even more idols, YHVH appeared as fire, so you didn't make even more idols....Yet in Genesis YHVH Elohim walked with Adam. Think what you're not understanding is that the God Most High (El Elyon) is the CPU, the manifestor of reality, that is without form... Seems the Jews have been confused ever since the return from the Babylonian exile. Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am El, and there is none else; Elohim are nothing like me. YHVH Elohim is a manifestation from El Elyon; feel sorry for you all, as you no longer even known the God Most High or one of his sons Yeshua Elohim (YHVH).
Would you please quote to me when HaShem appeared in human form? That was possible only in the dreams and visions of the Prophets if you read Numbers 12:6.
Genesis 3:8, Genesis 18:1-3, Genesis 32:24-30, etc...
Here is one site, please look at it, and could post loads listing all the other places:
Yahweh has a Human Form
Please answer the question, about how many times Judah has been cut off, since Psalms 78 was written?
The one we have been discussing---Iss 53.
Get serious. Judah is not "God with us." and was not born of a virgin. Israel was originally a spiritual virgin until they committed spiritual adultery with the gods of the nations around her,
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Genesis 3:8, Genesis 18:1-3, Genesis 32:24-30, etc...Here is one site, please look at it, and could post loads listing all the other places:Yahweh has a Human Form Please answer the question, about how many times Judah has been cut off, since Psalms 78 was written?
There is absolutely nothing in Genesis 3:8 to the effect that the Lord appeared in human form. Adam and Eve heard the sound of the Lord moving about in the Garden. They SAW nothing. Genesis 18:1-3 is talking about Abraham and Abraham was a great Prophet. Therefore, he followed HaShem's instructions that to His prophets He would reveal Himself to them only through dreams and visions if you read Numbers 12:6. Abraham was slumbering when he had a vision of the visitors. The expression, "The Lord appeared to him," means through a dream or vision. HaShem is incorporeal, a Spirit there is. He would not eat like a man. And for Genesis 32:24-30, Jacob was also a prophet and he would not speak to the Lord face to face because HaShem does not have a face like a man to speak with man face to face. (Numbers 12:6) Therefore, if you are not convinced of Numbers 12:6, try again because you proved nothing. Regarding your last question, Judah was cut off only once before the Babylonian exile.
So twice in total after that Psalm was written; thus when stating Judah shall stay as a nation for ever, you do recognize that is blatantly wrong according to history?
Yet then have a conservation with YHVH.
Doesn't say "Only".
It means to see, it doesn't mean a vision; the are multiple occurrences of people physically seeing YHVH Elohim.
Genesis 19:13, Exodus 33:11, Numbers 6:25, Deuteronomy 5:4, Deuteronomy 34:10, 1 Samuel 26:20, 1 Kings 13:6, 1 Chronicles 16:11, 2 Chronicles 30:9, Psalms 13:1, Psalms 27:8, etc...
All say YHVH has a face, and there are loads more; just like there are loads more statements saying YHVH appeared in human form.
Not trying again, this is a joke; if you went over the articles post, studied in the slightest, it would be apparent how faulty many of these conclusion are.
Last edited:
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
So twice in total after that Psalm was written; thus when stating Judah shall stay as a nation for ever, you do recognize that is blatantly wrong according to history?
Yet then have a conservation with YHVH.
Doesn't say "Only".
It means to see, it doesn't mean a vision; the are multiple occurrences of people physically seeing YHVH Elohim.
Genesis 19:13, Exodus 33:11, Numbers 6:25, Deuteronomy 5:4, Deuteronomy 34:10, 1 Samuel 26:20, 1 Kings 13:6, 1 Chronicles 16:11, 2 Chronicles 30:9, Psalms 13:1, Psalms 27:8, etc...
All say YHVH has a face, and there are loads more; just like there are loads more statements saying YHVH appeared in human form.
Not trying again, this is a joke; if you went over the articles post, studied in the slightest, it would be apparent how faulty many of these conclusion are.
Jesus himself said that God is a Spirit. No one can see a Spirit physically. One must be corporeal to be seen physically. (John 4:24)
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Is there any thing that exists which was not made up? Of course the gospel of John is made up! All gospels are made up.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
All conclusions which are not according to the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach are too faulty.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, nothing in Isaiah 53 is a reference to Jesus. The whole book of Isaiah is the whole thing a reference to Judah and Jerusalem if you read Isaiah 1:1; 2:1. Between your assumption and that of Isaiah. which one do you think I should side with? You must be kidding! Israel aka Messiah Ben Joseph was rejected forever and Judah aka Messiah Ben David confirmed to remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever. (I Kings 11:36)
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Wait! About my mind yes, I have made it up; how about yours, when are going to make up your mind? I mean to accept Jesus' gospel which was the Tanach or stop using him as the reason for the gospel of Paul which was the NT?
You will never know until you accept the NT.
The New is in the Old Concealed, the Old is in the New Revealed
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
So, indeed, I will never know.
You don't know the future. At one time I said he same thing.
“All satanic works are performed from the outside inward; all divine works from the inside outward.”
― Watchman Nee
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
If you mean all works as a result of our evil inclinations, I can say, you are right. If you mean works of Satan, I tell you, you are wrong for speaking under Christian preconceived notions.