Milky Way Mythology and Creation Story

[Native]

Dear Forum Friends,

I would like to introduce this topic because the Milky Way Mythology is almost forgotten, in spite of the fact that the Milky Way is connected very closely to the globally stories of Creation.

- Myths are not "ancient hearsayings", but real cosmological knowledge.

- When studying mythology, especially the Stories of Creation, it is very important to connect the right telling to the right celestial object.

All supreme deities and creator deities and archetypes are closely connected to the contours of the Milky Way that can be observed all around the Earth.

If you like to read more, visit my personal site by clicking on my username.

- Post any kind of related replies and we will see where it brings us in order to have a good and constructive discussion of this very important issue.

 

[Sylvan]

This is all very interesting but where are the actual myths you are referencing, and how were they collected? Its an easy thing to speak vaguely about ancient myths and principles and correlate them to whatever happens to make your neurons fire in that special happy way. But when I deeply study myth, particularly in terms of the language and context and which is was collected, I find more questions than answers. Stories about things that may appear to be abstract or as you say 'cosmological' are actually deeply interrelated to aspects of social life in the culture bearing the myth.

I do agree that ancient peoples had access to some kind of way of seeing that we no longer are able to do. Obviously for some reason our ancestors thought this was the way to go. This produces many concepts, visions, and stories about the nature of reality which, due to the sheer fact of the evolution of consciousness, we are unable to understand in the context from which they emerged in the minds of our ancestors. And so we continually reinterpret them to our own use. Much as you have done here. Which is a beautiful thing but is what it is and not evidence that the ancients had some kind of superior astronomical knowledge. Quite the contrary.

 

[Native]

@Sylvan,

I don´t know if your reply was posted after my latests 2 posts on where I was trying to elaborate more on my thoughts - but these were deleted by the administration for some reasons that I don´t understand yet.
- It is also very difficult to explain and illustrate my ideas and the issues when not allowed to link to my own articles and website or otherwhere.
- For the time I´m thinking of leaving this forum, feeling that it is to rigid for me, but let´s see.

Regards Native.

 

[Whiterain]

The cosmos was formed from the breast milk of Lady Hera in Greek. Quite charming and witty for how
old that is.

Other than that Norse starts off with Ginnungagap and represented the empty void of space the fire and
ice collide creating various elements of the universe or region/ galaxy. The Giants/Titans/Jotuns are born
followed by the Gods who bore/created Man some eons later. As with the Gods and Giants there are
various other races like Dwaves, Elves - ect.


People think it's all hogwash and get flustered over praising the Elder Gods or anything besides what
they believe in, while some ridicule you for believing in these 'fantasy' creatures yet they believe in
extra-terrestrial life. w/e

 

[Aupmanyav]

- Myths are not "ancient hearsayings", but real cosmological knowledge.

You are very correct. In the Indo-Iranian mythology, Milky-Way is the celestial river Saraswati or Ardvi Sûra Anâhita. When the demons of darkness are vanquished (Vritra for Hindus, Aži Dahāka for Zoroastrians) by Vritraghna (Indra - Hindu) or Thraetaona (Zoroastrians), the river with life-giving waters rises from the sea in the Netherworld (Voru-kasha) to nourish the earth. It was the mountain Albûrz, or Hara Berezaiti; and as Vṛitra, by stretching his body across, closed all the apertures in his mountainous range, through which the sun and the waters came up, Indra had to uncover or open these passages by killing Vṛitra. Thus the Bundahish (V, 5) mentions 180 apertures in the east and 180 in the west through Albûrz; and the sun is said to come and go through them every day, and all the movements of the moon, the constellations and the planets are also said to be closely connected with these apertures.

 

[Native]

You are very correct. In the Indo-Iranian mythology, Milky-Way is the celestial river Saraswati or Ardvi Sûra Anâhita.

(Sorry for this conversation delay)

Yes, the appearance of the Milky Way contours are closely connected to the global Stories of Creation and is mentioned in several cultures as a "Celestial River" or "Celestial Flood". The entire MW contour encircle the Earth, in the Norse Mythology giving rise to the Norse myth of the Midgaard Serpent laying arond the Earth = Midgaard.

When dividing the MW contours into a southern and northern hemisphere, the appearances of these two half-contours again gives rise for the two main and superior deities of creation and can be recognized in many cultural Stories of Creation.

The southern hemisphere MW-contours contains the MW-center (in Sagittarius Constellation) which of course is a very important astronomical amd mythical location. Modern cosmology has no specific explanation of creation in this center, but ancient myths of creation speaks of this center from where everything in our galaxy is created. For instants this Egyptian Story of Creation.

From this MW-center everything is created and this also goes for the observable MW-countours of which the southern hemisphere contours very easlily can be imagined as a celestial woman as with the Egyptian Goddess Hathor When imaging the southern MW-contours as a celestial woman, the Milky Way center is then mythically mentioned as the "Cosmic Womb". This southern hemisphere goddess is also myto-cosmologically called the "Underworld Goddess", because of the location on the southern hemisphere.

On the other and northern hemisphere the MW-contours very easily can be imagined as a celestial man and the myth says "he" is born of the southern hemisphere goddess, but he is also the husbond of the goddess, as also is the case of the Hathor and Ra connection in the link above. A mytheme, which is very difficult to understand if not knowing of the Milky Way Mythology and this mytheme also explains how "a virgin can give birth to a son" without being physically together with a man.

So, the Serpent and the two first male and female images are hereby described and connected to the story of creation which again is closely connected to the Milky Way.

The we can discuss how we can get different cultural tellings to fit with this basical explanation

Regards
Native

 

[Lucida Sidera]

For many years I could stare at the Milk Way, but since I moved to a big city it's near impossible.

But it's definitely among the most amazing things to hear mythology about.

 

[Native]

Hello Lucida Sidera,
You replied:

For many years I could stare at the Milk Way, but since I moved to a big city it's near impossible.
But it's definitely among the most amazing things to hear mythology about.

I of course agree in this I´ve visited your astrological blog and would like to ask you if you ever have pondered over the "deification of planets"?
For instants: When you read of Goddess Venus who "gives life and form to everything created", is it very like for planet Venus to have such a creative powers?

 

[Lucida Sidera]

The oldest known sources of astrology being from babylon/assyria, I must say that unfortunately I know very little of it's literature.

Most pagan literature that I'm acquainted with is greek, and it seems that astrology was an intense part of mesopotamia's life for 2 thousand years at least before getting into Greece.

The names of the Planets come from it, Venus for example was the Babylonic Ishtar. I suppose there was probably a very strong relation between cult of gods and the reality of planets in mesopotamia, but it's only a supposition, I never studied it through.

In Greece, it seems to me that Astrology came as a foreign science, and with the time started to more and more mix with the religion. Still, the Gods from the time of Homer have already much resemblance with astrological atributs, it's unclear why such striking resemblances... Perhaps in other cultures (like from Mesopotamia/Egypt) the study of astrology altered their notions of Gods and this influenced the Greeks since much time? If we are strict-logic we could totally say it, if we are mystic, we wouldn't bother to find a reason for it really.

I totally think that Greek Philosophy has put Astrology as one of it's main themes at least since Aristotle - his famous "metaphysics" book is in a great extent an astrological discussion.
And philosophy being popular and popular, astrological views of the worlds - and of the Gods - were too.

In Lucretius, there's an invocation of "Venus" right in the beggining of his book, and it seems clearly an invocation of the Goddess together with the star and it's astrological atributs.
I suspect the later growth of Apollon cult and it's identification as the Sun might have a relation with the importance of Sun in astrology, for example.

If we compare now the practice of Astrology with the way ancient people describe their Gods/Religion, like for example in the texts of Homer, I would say that yes, Planets pretty much resemble Gods.

Each planet in Astrology has lots of meanings which go far from being only psychological descriptions. A transit of Jupiter could mean a psychological implementation of courage and will to act and expand, but it could also mean a sudden opportunity of travel that seemed to appear from "nowhere".
So, the many meanings that the Planets bear with them and the mysterious way as they appear in humans lives seems to make an interesting parallel to the description of Gods influences over human lives in ancient texts.

 

[Native]

Hello Lucida Sidera,
Thanks for your reply

The names of the Planets come from it, Venus for example was the Babylonic Ishtar. I suppose there was probably a very strong relation between cult of gods and the reality of planets in mesopotamia, but it's only a supposition, I never studied it through.

The planets are named after the Roman Pantheon deities and yes, the prime male and female deities can be compared in fact all over the world, but if we concentrate on the Egyptian, the Greek and the Roman prime female deities, namely goddess Venus, goddess Aphrodite and goddess Hathor.

The Roman and Greek goddesses are all equal to the Egyptian goddess Hathor who specifically is connectred to the Milky Way contours on the southern Sky as read here - Hathor - Wikipedia - so what then?

Does the ancient understanding of "astrology" then have anything at all to do with planets? The informations of Milky Way goddess Hathor and the comparisons to the other godesses logically says NO.

What do you say to this?

 

[Lucida Sidera]

I do not know much of the Goddess Hathor, so I got confused about your question of "Does the ancient understanding of "astrology" then have anything at all to do with planets? " .

From my understanding, there are sometimes striking resemblances between the atributs of Gods and of Planets, but not always. Zeus and Hermes, for example, since Homer have descriptions which could be great recognized as of the astrological planets Jupiter and Mercury. In an opposite sense, some say Greek mythology would hardly have enough description for the atributs of Uranus, for example.

About the planet Venus, I've read that Ishtar was also a warrior Goddess. The Greek Aphrodite, though, rules love and doesn't deal with fights. But the Roman Venus seems to me to have the best description of this Planet - and this perhaps because the descriptions of it come from a late time where astrology might have influenced it's description perhaps?
Venus has something of equilibrium and elegance, that sounds more like the Sign of Libra (which Venus rules), while Aphrodite seems a little bit too much naive and soft, while Ishtar is also warrior.

 

[Lucida Sidera]

I usually compare the descriptions of a certain God with the descriptions of a Planet/Star/Constellation, most times it fits quite well.

I never read about the milk way as a whole having an astrological meaning, but many of it's stars surely have.

 

[Native]

I do not know much of the Goddess Hathor, so I got confused about your question of "Does the ancient understanding of "astrology" then have anything at all to do with planets? " .

From my understanding, there are sometimes striking resemblances between the atributs of Gods and of Planets, but not always. Zeus and Hermes, for example, since Homer have descriptions which could be great recognized as of the astrological planets Jupiter and Mercury. In an opposite sense, some say Greek mythology would hardly have enough description for the atributs of Uranus, for example.

About the planet Venus, I've read that Ishtar was also a warrior Goddess. The Greek Aphrodite, though, rules love and doesn't deal with fights. But the Roman Venus seems to me to have the best description of this Planet - and this perhaps because the descriptions of it come from a late time where astrology might have influenced it's description perhaps?
Venus has something of equilibrium and elegance, that sounds more like the Sign of Libra (which Venus rules), while Aphrodite seems a little bit too much naive and soft, while Ishtar is also warrior.

My point was just:

As goddess Hathor resembles the MIlky Way and is equal to the Greek goddess Aphrodite and to the Roman goddess Venus, then goddess Venus cannot be ascribed to planet Venus as well.

The key problem here is that the ancient Mother goddess archetype belongs to the Milky Way and not to planets, which just were mentioned in the ancient world as "the wandering stars".

Besides this: Can you logically and naturally imagine any planet having gendered forms and attributes by looking on any planet?

i don´t really think so. But if you look at the celestial shape of the Milky Way on the southern hemisphere you can - See here - The great Mother Goddess

 

[Lucida Sidera]

I didn't want to take a position about it, I was just describing randomly positions about stars and gods.

Your site is admirable by the extent and complexity in which it deals with this theme, and I'll visit it often to read.

I would like to say first that I see Astrology always as just an empiric science, in itself it's not metaphysics, neither religion. It can, nonetheless, add many suggestions to our physical/metaphysical/religious comprehension of the world. But astrology, in itself, will never decide over metaphysical matters.

In Astrology the closest planet that could be associated with "Mother Goddess" paradigms would be the Moon, and the Sign of Cancer.

Both are related with our emotions, our past and love, nurturing, taking care - much of our emotional part, which encompasses many of Motherhood themes.

What the astrologer say is that when the Moon passes over such a point, or if you use such or such technique using the Moon as reference you'll gather much information about the "emotional part" of a person. Any metaphysical/religious conclusion after that will not be strictly astrology.

In Greece there are many possible "Mother Goddess" I think. Gaia, Earth would be a choice, Athena is sometimes mentioned as an option, Aphrodite is more of love/passion than of Motherhood, but I think the best choice would be really Demeter - with the "meter - mother" radical right on her name.

The Moon, Selene, seems to not be one of the main Goddess of their pantheon, at least until she's joined with Hekate/Artemis/Selene making a triplice Goddess.

Demeter, though, is way more associated with the astrological sign of Virgo than with Cancer. Virgo has also some Motherhood themes, but not so much as Cancer. I can't really say if in Greek Pantheon there's a Goddess that we could identify with Moon/Cancer.

I would like to give an example, though, of how astrology could be suggestive in pointing a possibility of metaphysics that would be harmonic with the notion of a Milk Way Goddess.
(This is only speculation, I'm not taking it as my own position)
One issue that could appear in this notion is the difficult in comprehending that the Milk Way could have a conscience as we comprehend it - like a bit "anthropomorfic".

When we observe in astrology the influence of the Sun over our consciousness, we could think that the Sun perhaps not only "modulate" our conscioussness, but is really it's source and cause - and many empiric observations of the influence of Sun could contribute to follow such a path.

If this is true, it would be strange for the Solar System to not have a conscience - when it has the Sun, which causes our conscience, right on it's center. But, once the Sun is one star, and the Milk Way has millions of stars and millions of other "solar systems", it would be even more absurd to think that this wider "organism", the Milk Way, having millions of Suns wouldn't have conscience, once we agreed - by inferences made via astrology - that the Sun is responsible for our very consciousness.

 

[syo]

- Myths are not "ancient hearsayings", but real cosmological knowledge.

exactly