Minimum 15 dollar wage. Meet back burner.

[Twilight Hue]

Couple of weeks ago but there it is.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/15-minimum-wage-decision-biden-covid-relief-bill.html


Moderate Democrats shoot down $15 minimum wage


Of course its still top priority. Right?

How many years has it been now promised since it was first proposed?

Thoughts?

Think it will happen? Or not?

 

[tarasan]

Couple of weeks ago but there it is.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/15-minimum-wage-decision-biden-covid-relief-bill.html


Moderate Democrats shoot down $15 minimum wage


Of course its still top priority. Right?

How many years has it been now promised since it was first proposed?

Thoughts?

Think it will happen? Or not?

Minimum wages are tricky as they can't be so high that businesses can no longer afford to pay them. We face the same issues in the uk too our minimum wage actually isn't the "actual" minimum wage.

 

[VoidCat]

I would like the miniumim wage to be raised but when will it be illegal for disabled people to be paid below minimum wage? Last I checked its legal to pay disabled people below the $7.25 wage here in NC.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Minimum wages are tricky as they can't be so high that businesses can no longer afford to pay them. We face the same issues in the uk too our minimum wage actually isn't the "actual" minimum wage.

I think it would be more appropriate to determine a living wage as opposed to a static rate.

Too bad there is no such thing as an adjustable income that keeps up with inflation.

 

[exchemist]

Couple of weeks ago but there it is.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/15-minimum-wage-decision-biden-covid-relief-bill.html


Moderate Democrats shoot down $15 minimum wage


Of course its still top priority. Right?

How many years has it been now promised since it was first proposed?

Thoughts?

Think it will happen? Or not?

But, but, but, surely, this proposal is "socialist", isn't it?

Consistency? Nul points.

 

[Nakosis]

Couple of weeks ago but there it is.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/15-minimum-wage-decision-biden-covid-relief-bill.html


Moderate Democrats shoot down $15 minimum wage


Of course its still top priority. Right?

How many years has it been now promised since it was first proposed?

Thoughts?

Think it will happen? Or not?

We, Calif, had some local governments impose it. Some restaurants/stores picked up move the next county/city over.

I fear what $15 min wage will do is simply increase the cost of living. So while the dollar take home is more dollars, what you can actually buy with that money will become less.

You may be making $15 per hour but it will feel like $10 per hour per what you can afford to buy with it.
IOW you cannot advance in life by depending on an increase in min wage.

 

[Nakosis]

But, but, but, surely, this proposal is "socialist", isn't it?

Consistency? Nul points.

Does socialism mean increasing government authority?

 

[Quetzal]

Too bad there is no such thing as an adjustable income that keeps up with inflation.

Sure there is, but the burden rests on the employer. The problem is that goes against capitalist principles: why should I pay you more when I don't have to?

 

[Twilight Hue]

We, Calif, had some local governments impose it. Some restaurants/stores picked up move the next county/city over.

I fear what $15 min wage will do is simply increase the cost of living. So while the dollar take home is more dollars, what you can actually buy with that money will become less.

You may be making $15 per hour but it will feel like $10 per hour per what you can afford to buy with it.
IOW you cannot advance in life by depending on an increase in min wage.

It's a nasty catch 22.

 

[exchemist]

Does socialism mean increasing government authority?

No. It is considerably more specific than that. As I'm sure you are well aware.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Minimum wages are tricky as they can't be so high that businesses can no longer afford to pay them.

... though raising the minimum wage also increases a company's ability to afford it, since minimum wage increases have a stimulus effect.

What business wouldn't love for their customers to suddenly have a big increase in their disposable income?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We, Calif, had some local governments impose it. Some restaurants/stores picked up move the next county/city over.

This is why it works best if the minimum wage is set nationally.

I fear what $15 min wage will do is simply increase the cost of living. So while the dollar take home is more dollars, what you can actually buy with that money will become less.

You may be making $15 per hour but it will feel like $10 per hour per what you can afford to buy with it.
IOW you cannot advance in life by depending on an increase in min wage.

Why would you expect this? It seems to fly in the face of basic economics.

 

[Nakosis]

This is why it works best if the minimum wage is set nationally.

That is what I was thinking.

Why would you expect this? It seems to fly in the face of basic economics.

Minimum wage was $3.10 when I started. Fine for myself, not enough for a family.
$15 an hour I could see making it myself but not really supporting a family on it.

So if I had kept with the minimum wage my entire life I don't really see that anything would have changed as far as my ability to afford a better life.

 

[Nakosis]

No. It is considerably more specific than that. As I'm sure you are well aware.

I find myself confused a lot of times about political policy.

The increased minimum is an increase in government authority. Just curious if people see this as a necessity. Can socialism be done without an increase in governmental authority?

 

[exchemist]

Minimum wages are tricky as they can't be so high that businesses can no longer afford to pay them. We face the same issues in the uk too our minimum wage actually isn't the "actual" minimum wage.

Businesses have always claimed that. But the evidence, from the various minimum wage laws that have been tried, seems to be that this is not so. Businesses that are very exposed to labour costs may put up prices, but since their competitors have the same issue it does not affect their competitiveness, and thus does not affect their viability. What it may do is force the business to get more value out of each employee. That is called raising productivity and is generally considered a good thing, economically.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Sure there is, but the burden rests on the employer. The problem is that goes against capitalist principles: why should I pay you more when I don't have to?

Sounds self defeating. The less income the less products and services are utilized.

Guess you could say I'm slowly coming around to seeing a different take on the minimum wage and it's importance to keep people spending and keeping the economy healthy. ;0]

 

[exchemist]

I find myself confused a lot of times about political policy.

The increased minimum is an increase in government authority. Just curious if people see this as a necessity. Can socialism be done without an increase in governmental authority?

Don't be disingenuous. You can increase government authority for all sorts of reasons. Fascists and other right wing authoritarians always exert tight government control, for instance.

Socialism is, as you know, about state ownership of the means of production. Obviously that implies massive government control of almost everything in the economy. But, by the same token, an increase in government authority does not constitute or imply socialism, unless it is directed towards the ownership of the means of production.

Now, what governments are proposing they should take over all the business enterprises? N Korea, yes. Venezuela, perhaps, in part. China, in the past, yes, but now? Where else? Anywhere?

 

[Quetzal]

Sounds self defeating. The less income the less products and services are utilized.

Guess you could say I'm slowly coming around to seeing a different take on the minimum wage and it's importance to keep people spending and keeping the economy healthy. ;0]

That's the whole trick. If the federal minimum wage never increased, there is zero incentive to increase wages. Business owners simply won't do it (why would they?). Of course, if you have an in-demand skill, you can negotiate a bit more, but that isn't the demographic of people we are talking about.

 

[tarasan]

... though raising the minimum wage also increases a company's ability to afford it, since minimum wage increases have a stimulus effect.

What business wouldn't love for their customers to suddenly have a big increase in their disposable income?

It stops smaller businesses from opening, if u don't have the revenue to pay the wages it's a non starter. These things won't stop the big companies that can absorb the cost for little companies it will stop them from opening or they will just increase the price of things to keep up. And if wages increase causes the prices to increase what's the point?

 

[tarasan]

Businesses have always claimed that. But the evidence, from the various minimum wage laws that have been tried, seems to be that this is not so. Businesses that are very exposed to labour costs may put up prices, but since their competitors have the same issue it does not affect their competitiveness, and thus does not affect their viability. What it may do is force the business to get more value out of each employee. That is called raising productivity and is generally considered a good thing, economically.

So it increases the prices of things? So what's the point in increasing the wages if things will get more expensive, just seems like they are back to square one.

I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be a minimum wage just that is something that should be though of with care