minimum faith necessary?

[brokensymmetry]

This is two questions. What do you think is the minimum amount of stuff someone needs to believe to be a Christian? Second, how strongly do those beliefs need to be held? Suppose someone believes them at times, and at other times has strong doubts. How would you interpret that state of affairs?

 

[Shiranui117]

In order for me to consider someone an orthodox Christian with a small o, I would look for belief in Jesus as being both true God and true man, and believing in the Trinity--Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and believing that Jesus rose bodily from the dead. Essentially, I would put forth the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed:

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father by Whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and was made man. He was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate and suffered and was buried, And the third day He arose again, according to the Scriptures. And He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, Who spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I profess one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

In my view, anyone claiming to be Christian who disputes that Jesus is truly God, or that God is Trinity, or that Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead, is quite simply an unorthodox ("unorthodox" means "not rightly believing") Christian. Those who hold to the Creed and to at least the first three or four Ecumenical Councils is an orthodox Christian. Those who waver between orthodoxy and unorthodoxy are people who are, in my view, unsure of themselves, plain and simple.

 

[brokensymmetry]

In order for me to consider someone an orthodox Christian with a small o, I would look for belief in Jesus as being both true God and true man, and believing in the Trinity--Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and believing that Jesus rose bodily from the dead. Essentially, I would put forth the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed:

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father by Whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and was made man. He was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate and suffered and was buried, And the third day He arose again, according to the Scriptures. And He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, Who spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I profess one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

In my view, anyone claiming to be Christian who disputes that Jesus is truly God, or that God is Trinity, or that Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead, is quite simply an unorthodox ("unorthodox" means "not rightly believing") Christian. Those who hold to the Creed and to at least the first three or four Ecumenical Councils is an orthodox Christian. Those who waver between orthodoxy and unorthodoxy are people who are, in my view, unsure of themselves, plain and simple.

Yeah alright, fair enough. Let me ask you this, to what extent do you think a 'genuine christian' or 'little o' christian need to be committed to this? Moments of doubt? Weeks of doubt?

 

[Shiranui117]

Yeah alright, fair enough. Let me ask you this, to what extent do you think a 'genuine christian' or 'little o' christian need to be committed to this? Moments of doubt? Weeks of doubt?

Heck, I'd be a major hypocrite if I said that they needed to 100% believe it 100% of the time. A natural part of faith is having the occasional doubt. I've had days and weeks where I considered myself Gnostic, Buddhist and agnostic, but I always ended up coming back. Doubts are practically to be expected. Just as long as they believe more often than they disbelieve. For me, if I fall below a 7/10 on the scale of belief, that's getting sketchy for me, but I know others have different thresholds for what they consider to be belief vs. doubt, and that such a thing is personal, between them and God. If they doubt at least as often as they believe or pretty close to it, I'd put them in the category of "they're not sure what they believe, but I'm willing to pray for them and answer whatever questions they have and give them whatever insight they need".

 

[brokensymmetry]

Heck, I'd be a major hypocrite if I said that they needed to 100% believe it 100% of the time. A natural part of faith is having the occasional doubt. I've had days and weeks where I considered myself Gnostic, Buddhist and agnostic, but I always ended up coming back. Doubts are practically to be expected. Just as long as they believe more often than they disbelieve. For me, if I fall below a 7/10 on the scale of belief, that's getting sketchy for me, but I know others have different thresholds for what they consider to be belief vs. doubt, and that such a thing is personal, between them and God. If they doubt at least as often as they believe or pretty close to it, I'd put them in the category of "they're not sure what they believe, but I'm willing to pray for them and answer whatever questions they have and give them whatever insight they need".

Fair enough and I appreciate the quantification here. That is what I was curious about. I'm trying to get some handle on what is common among christians vs 'fooling oneself' perhaps.

 

[gzusfrk]

This is two questions. What do you think is the minimum amount of stuff someone needs to believe to be a Christian? Second, how strongly do those beliefs need to be held? Suppose someone believes them at times, and at other times has strong doubts. How would you interpret that state of affairs?

In Matthew chapter 10 Jesus says, he who does not pick up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. The minimum stuff you need to do needs done daily. In the parable of the sower Jesus said the seed is the Word of God, some seed fell in shallow soil so it did not grow well and died, some the birds ate the seed, which was satan Some seed fell on good soil ( good heart seeking God), some produced a hundredfold some sixty, some thirty. Matthew chapter 13.

 

[brokensymmetry]

In Matthew chapter 10 Jesus says, he who does not pick up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. The minimum stuff you need to do needs done daily. In the parable of the sower Jesus said the seed is the Word of God, some seed fell in shallow soil so it did not grow well and died, some the birds ate the seed, which was satan Some seed fell on good soil ( good heart seeking God), some produced a hundredfold some sixty, some thirty. Matthew chapter 13.

haha if that is the case it's safe to say I'm screwed and might as well pack up and go home. Thank you for your feedback.

 

[ELoWolfe]

I wouldn't get too caught up in theologians. Belief is between you and God, alone. There are many people who are sincere in their belief, but because of ignorance in the technicalities, they would be considered unorthodox or even heretical.

For example, my sister (sporadic church member) did not know/understand of Jesus being both God and Son of God. The terminology and nuances of the church were never explained and taught to her, so she used her own rationale to read the Bible and read such lines as Luke 22:42: "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done" and Matthew 27:46: "About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?")." Because of such lines, she did not believe (know) that Jesus and God were one-and-the-same.

Is she unorthodox? Technically speaking, yes. Is she a Christian? She certainly will say she is. Is she going to hell, or damned, or anything like that? I'm inclined to say no. The early church fathers would probably say yes. And that is such a shame.

Mark 9:38-40

"'Teacher,' said John, 'we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.' 'Do not stop him,' Jesus said. 'For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.'"

Take that as you will.

 

[Pegg]

This is two questions. What do you think is the minimum amount of stuff someone needs to believe to be a Christian? Second, how strongly do those beliefs need to be held? Suppose someone believes them at times, and at other times has strong doubts. How would you interpret that state of affairs?

James 1:6 '...the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.


Hebrews 11:6 Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him.


Faith is an expectation that God will do everything he has promised. If you believe the promises of God and you are firmly convinced that God will accomplish all of them, then you can say you have faith. But you also need to work in harmony with your faith by actually 'doing' the things God wants you to do.

Without faith backed up by works its impossible to be fully pleasing to God.

So the bare minimum is belief in Gods promises, faith they will come true and works in harmony with what God is asking us to do, ie preaching the message begun by Jesus. If we need more faith, we can cultivate it through study and meditation on Gods Word the bible.

 

[Amy30]

The Nicene Creed was probably the earliest uniform profession of faith...but in Early Christian it is Bart
Ehram describes the many variations among first and second century Christians. There are over 30
thousand variations and denominations among Protestants today... All that to say, what being a Christians
entails, what you need to do or believe...depends on who you ask.... If you believe in God, look there
and follow your heart.