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Misappropriation of the word 'racist' used against Trump

Acim

Revelation all the time
@Acim, the best minds of the GOP (forgive the oxymoron) have characterized Trump's comments as racist and danced all manner of clumsy dances to disassociate themselves from Trump's rants. Have fun swimming upstream and pretending that it has something to do with critical thinking skills much less principles. You and your narcissistic scumbag are doing a marvelous job sewing the seeds of GOP defeat. :D

They mischaracterized Trump's comments as racist. Bring them into the discussion and I'll be glad to show how they misappropriated the word 'racist' in relation to Trump. I wouldn't hold back on this because of their party. It's clearly an attempt at political correctness.

November elections are so far off, I don't see what that has to do with critical thinking on this topic, but if it makes you happy to believe your side will win, okay. If that in turn leads to America losing, oh well.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
The example lacks, IMO, showing how this is based on genetics and not the environment.
Fine, but as I said it is my opinion based on all my observations and education on the subject. You can have a different opinion because as I said earlier that like God or the afterlife, there is no proof or disproof that satisfies everybody.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Fine, but as I said it is my opinion based on all my observations and education on the subject. You can have a different opinion because as I said earlier that like God or the afterlife, there is no proof or disproof that satisfies everybody.

I wasn't arguing your point, but asking you to clarify how that relates to your earlier point, where you said: can stereotyping be based on reality (involving differences in genetics and not just environment)?

Have all your observations and education regarding - African American dominance over Asian Americans in sports - been based on genetics?

Or are you just asking a very general question that because there are plausible differences in genetics, could stereotyping be based on this and not just on the environment in which the stereotyper lives? Perhaps that question makes it more confusing than what you are asking, but again, I was seeking clarification on what you asked, not arguing the point that your opinion is valid.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I wasn't arguing your point, but asking you to clarify how that relates to your earlier point, where you said: can stereotyping be based on reality (involving differences in genetics and not just environment)?

Have all your observations and education regarding - African American dominance over Asian Americans in sports - been based on genetics?

Or are you just asking a very general question that because there are plausible differences in genetics, could stereotyping be based on this and not just on the environment in which the stereotyper lives? Perhaps that question makes it more confusing than what you are asking, but again, I was seeking clarification on what you asked, not arguing the point that your opinion is valid.
I guess I am not sure I completely understand what you are asking yet. I guess I was addressing the idea that some people believe it is wrong to have the belief that one ethnic group is on average better than another group in a certain field of endeavor. I am saying that if you objectively believe it to be true, then it is not wrong or evil, it is just an opinion.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
I guess I was addressing the idea that some people believe it is wrong to have the belief that one ethnic group is on average better than another group in a certain field of endeavor. I am saying that if you objectively believe it to be true, then it is not wrong or evil, it is just an opinion.

What do you mean by "objectively believe?"

Not sure how to address the first comment other than some people might identify that as stereotyping, and would likely recognize it as opinion based. Those who might jump to the inaccurate conclusion that the stereotyping is beyond mere opinion and is racist/evil, are in need of critical thinking skills being updated.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
What do you mean by "objectively believe?"
Studying the evidence and drawing an opinion without concern for what you find. Subjectivity (the opposite of objectivity) often creeps into our analysis when we are preferring a certain conclusion.
Not sure how to address the first comment other than some people might identify that as stereotyping, and would likely recognize it as opinion based. Those who might jump to the inaccurate conclusion that the stereotyping is beyond mere opinion and is racist/evil, are in need of critical thinking skills being updated.
I agree. But I believe people subjectively like to believe that genetic differences don't exist because it seems fairer and their objectivity goes out the window and their emotions boil if you disagree,
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Studying the evidence and drawing an opinion without concern for what you find. Subjectivity (the opposite of objectivity) often creeps into our analysis when we are preferring a certain conclusion.

Now I understand what you mean.
I wonder if that objectivity is truly possible though.

I agree. But I believe people subjectively like to believe that genetic differences don't exist because it seems fairer and their objectivity goes out the window and their emotions boil if you disagree,

Interesting.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That is not what racism is.

Probably already addressed in the thread, but apparently it needs repeating. It may be (probably is) prejudice, but is most definitely not racism.



Also not racism / racist.

I honestly don't see how intellectual people can tie such things to racism, but alas, here we are.



Also not racist. If such an assumption is held, it would plausibly be stereotyping.

The thing with prejudice, discrimination and stereotyping is that it could be, in some instances, accurate. In many cases (like the popular ones we hear about in the news), they are likely inaccurate claims being stated, though the trends one would be exception to this.

With racism, there's pretty much no positive way to spin it, and would take a whole lot of science / critical thinking to establish the claim as accurate (that one race is inferior/superior) to another.

It was necessary to systematically go through the post to challange it point by point. But disputing definitions is really clutching at straws: I realise the word "racist" carries quite a sting but if you take prejudice, stereotyping and discrimination together- in practice the effect is the same regardless of what you call it.

In the 19th century racism was presented as "scientific" but the crucial problem was that there was not empirically established a link between external characteristics and the inner and moral ones. This relied on a series of assumptions that our behaviour was biologically and genetically determined by racial characteristics.

Racism was considered positive in terms of attributing to the "white" man the status as being superior on the basis of a more technologically advanced civilisation capable of conquering others. It was the "white mans burden" to carry out a "civilising mission" to force everyone else to adopt western civilisation. This however is a correlation between racial characteristics and potentially subjective evaluations of the level of development of "civilisation". It also doesn't take into account periods such as the Islamic Golden Age or the development of Chinese science and technology making it a highly selective use of historical evidence as well. So the accuracy of prejudice, stereotyping as a basis for justifying discrimination is not valid unless you can demonstrate a process of causation between race and the trait you are referring rather than statistical correlation.

The culmination of this was the nazi theory of the Aryan Master Race in which the positive view of art and legitimised their belief in "living-space" at the expense of other races. Claims of Superiority and inferiority are not mutually exclusive but interdependent on one another. So it is not as easy to separate prejudice, stereotyping and discrimination in practice as it is in the abstract.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
It was necessary to systematically go through the post to challange it point by point. But disputing definitions is really clutching at straws: I realise the word "racist" carries quite a sting but if you take prejudice, stereotyping and discrimination together- in practice the effect is the same regardless of what you call it.

In the 19th century racism was presented as "scientific" but the crucial problem was that there was not empirically established a link between external characteristics and the inner and moral ones. This relied on a series of assumptions that our behaviour was biologically and genetically determined by racial characteristics.

Racism was considered positive in terms of attributing to the "white" man the status as being superior on the basis of a more technologically advanced civilisation capable of conquering others. It was the "white mans burden" to carry out a "civilising mission" to force everyone else to adopt western civilisation. This however is a correlation between racial characteristics and potentially subjective evaluations of the level of development of "civilisation". It also doesn't take into account periods such as the Islamic Golden Age or the development of Chinese science and technology making it a highly selective use of historical evidence as well. So the accuracy of prejudice, stereotyping as a basis for justifying discrimination is not valid unless you can demonstrate a process of causation between race and the trait you are referring rather than statistical correlation.

The culmination of this was the nazi theory of the Aryan Master Race in which the positive view of art and legitimised their belief in "living-space" at the expense of other races. Claims of Superiority and inferiority are not mutually exclusive but interdependent on one another. So it is not as easy to separate prejudice, stereotyping and discrimination in practice as it is in the abstract.

I find it easy to distinguish between the levels of prejudice, when considering individual expressions. I see racism as reserved for particular expressions that are plausibly best referenced when considering the entire values of a person. When used willy nilly as if it is challenging to distinguish, I think it takes away from actual racism in a significant way. I disagree that 'taking prejudice, stereotyping and discrimination together' necessarily would be the same as racism. In the (historic) examples you've provided, a racist will inevitably see their attitude as something to have pride in, and not hide their racism (via their expressions of discrimination, prejudice and stereotyping); moreover, they will make it rather clear that they hold a position that is easily identified as racist.

Because of what political correctness does, it almost makes it easier to find out who are actual racists, because again, they'll fully embrace it. What political correctness attempts to do, and I think fails miserably, is assume it (or we) can judge from mere prejudice, mere stereotyping or mere discrimination the full attitude of an individual and assume they are racist. With such a ridiculous compass in place, its possible to assume everyone is a racist, and just hiding it really well, but say anything (anything at all) that is discriminatory (be it positive or negative) and PC would say, ha ha, you've been exposed. IMO, the PC practice is that ridiculous.

Hence the title / main subject of this thread.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I find it easy to distinguish between the levels of prejudice, when considering individual expressions. I see racism as reserved for particular expressions that are plausibly best referenced when considering the entire values of a person. When used willy nilly as if it is challenging to distinguish, I think it takes away from actual racism in a significant way. I disagree that 'taking prejudice, stereotyping and discrimination together' necessarily would be the same as racism. In the (historic) examples you've provided, a racist will inevitably see their attitude as something to have pride in, and not hide their racism (via their expressions of discrimination, prejudice and stereotyping); moreover, they will make it rather clear that they hold a position that is easily identified as racist.

Because of what political correctness does, it almost makes it easier to find out who are actual racists, because again, they'll fully embrace it. What political correctness attempts to do, and I think fails miserably, is assume it (or we) can judge from mere prejudice, mere stereotyping or mere discrimination the full attitude of an individual and assume they are racist. With such a ridiculous compass in place, its possible to assume everyone is a racist, and just hiding it really well, but say anything (anything at all) that is discriminatory (be it positive or negative) and PC would say, ha ha, you've been exposed. IMO, the PC practice is that ridiculous.

Hence the title / main subject of this thread.

In terms of whether political correctness goes so far as to argue that "everyone is racist" that is to some extent true. The problem is that racism is an ideology and not simply the product of the views of a single individual. Racism is a lasting set of cultural prejudices and stereotypes which mean that discriminatory practices are perpetuated even in conditions where races are legally treated as equal.

nowadays racism is rarely a coherent position which individuals self-consciously derive a sense of self-worth outside of the far right. However the legacies of racism continue to affect us all. The problem for political correctness is how tolerance of lesser degrees of racism risks a slippery slope to tolerance of ideologically more coherent racism, as well as combating racist views which exist in the mainstream of society but are legitimised purely but not being part of a coherent ideology. Trump- whilst not openly nazi in terms of ideological racism- nevertheless legitimises the more incoherent forms, gives them publicity and a politically more respectable authority to present their views. The "Trump brand" means that people feel vindicated in expressing racist views because it has become acceptable for a successful billionaire to express singular statements that are highly prejudicial, stereotypical and discriminatory BUT does not represent a coherent "ideological" racism such as Nazism. Trump is a populist who uses anxieties and fears over racial difference to support his campaign. By doing so he helps bring the more extreme forms of racism into the mainstream by making expressing such views respectable.

I would consider myself someone who aspires to be politically correct, but the increasing power and influence of the far right means that this is now a largely failed model, particularly because it does not take the concerns regarding free speech into account. Many people who do not support coherent racist ideologies come to the defence of the far-right in the name of free speech and a fair amount of this also gets attention in the press as well because racial anxieties over immigration, crime and terrorism sell newspapers.

The problem is how you draw a line between individuals views, the way mass media can spread such views and how they then play an active role in deterring people's behaviour, political affiliations and voting habits.

Trump is not a Nazi and does not represent the "ideological" coherent racism that is both very terrifying and more obvious. Instead it is a much more incoherent set of starements that exploit people's fears and utilises them to get them to vote. Political correctness has to evolve from simply making expressing racist ideas as taboo- as that is merely a symptom of the problems that creates those fears. Instead we need to actively address the social and economic roots of racial conflict and not allow legitimate concerns to be monopolised by the far right and interpreted in ways in which ethnic groups are scape coated for bigger and more complex problems.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
In terms of whether political correctness goes so far as to argue that "everyone is racist" that is to some extent true. The problem is that racism is an ideology and not simply the product of the views of a single individual. Racism is a lasting set of cultural prejudices and stereotypes which mean that discriminatory practices are perpetuated even in conditions where races are legally treated as equal.

nowadays racism is rarely a coherent position which individuals self-consciously derive a sense of self-worth outside of the far right. However the legacies of racism continue to affect us all. The problem for political correctness is how tolerance of lesser degrees of racism risks a slippery slope to tolerance of ideologically more coherent racism, as well as combating racist views which exist in the mainstream of society but are legitimised purely but not being part of a coherent ideology. Trump- whilst not openly nazi in terms of ideological racism- nevertheless legitimises the more incoherent forms, gives them publicity and a politically more respectable authority to present their views. The "Trump brand" means that people feel vindicated in expressing racist views because it has become acceptable for a successful billionaire to express singular statements that are highly prejudicial, stereotypical and discriminatory BUT does not represent a coherent "ideological" racism such as Nazism. Trump is a populist who uses anxieties and fears over racial difference to support his campaign. By doing so he helps bring the more extreme forms of racism into the mainstream by making expressing such views respectable.

Gotta stop here because of assertion: The "Trump brand" means that people feel vindicated in expressing racist views because it has become acceptable for a successful billionaire to express singular statements that are highly prejudicial, stereotypical and discriminatory BUT does not represent a coherent "ideological" racism such as Nazism.

Expressing views on racial differences does not make for racist views. Or, I'd like to see you provide example of expressing racial differences that rise to level of racism. For if this were remotely accurate, then BLM in both name and likely many other expressions would be inherently racist. As I don't believe that, then I'm not going in that direction until, unless I see what you come up with for Trump in equating expressions of racial differences mean manifesting racism. As I do realize you are asserting something slightly different (regarding supporters, more so than Trump), I'd rather make it front and center with examples than making this about "Trump brand."

For the way I interpret what you are getting at, but spun clockwise, is that the Left has stoked fears and anxieties around all identity differences, as a (populist) way to garner votes and attempted to corner all discussions in this vein through the misguided practice of political correctness. Not just in the past few months, but past few decades. And Trump has brought this to a forefront by having the nerve to counter that. Of course that's going to be ugly at times, and going to engage in discrimination, prejudice and stereotyping to counter the Left's ugly version of those traits. There's a bunch of debate points to be had here, some of which when they present Trump would be, IMO, impossible to not see Trump as engaging in high level of prejudice, and likely on occasion, bigotry. At other times, I think it is countering what is the PC understandings and logic of how the discussion must also be framed. This thread's title / main subject being one of those examples. PC rushed to judgment of 'racism' and ran with that for all its worth. Suggesting this is 'textbook version' of racism. Not just the Left, but people on the Right. I am yet to see anyone defend this in a coherent way. Thus, Trump had actually countered this approach before and after his controversial, prejudice remark.

I would consider myself someone who aspires to be politically correct, but the increasing power and influence of the far right means that this is now a largely failed model, particularly because it does not take the concerns regarding free speech into account. Many people who do not support coherent racist ideologies come to the defence of the far-right in the name of free speech and a fair amount of this also gets attention in the press as well because racial anxieties over immigration, crime and terrorism sell newspapers.

The problem is how you draw a line between individuals views, the way mass media can spread such views and how they then play an active role in deterring people's behaviour, political affiliations and voting habits.

Trump is not a Nazi and does not represent the "ideological" coherent racism that is both very terrifying and more obvious. Instead it is a much more incoherent set of starements that exploit people's fears and utilises them to get them to vote. Political correctness has to evolve from simply making expressing racist ideas as taboo- as that is merely a symptom of the problems that creates those fears. Instead we need to actively address the social and economic roots of racial conflict and not allow legitimate concerns to be monopolised by the far right and interpreted in ways in which ethnic groups are scape coated for bigger and more complex problems.

A) Had you said "simply making expressing racial differences as taboo" - I could be a bit more on board with what you are conveying. This notion that it is inherently racism is merely a symptom of the PC failure to have the discussion that would get at the root of more complex problems.

B) I honestly see the Left's attempts to monopolize the discussion and essentially expose everyone (on the Right, but never ever on the left) as inherently racist as way of sidetracking the larger debate that is overdue, but can't be had because seemingly only those on the Left are invited into 'reasonable discussions on actively addressing social and economic roots of racial conflict.' I literally don't see how it is possible for anyone on the Right to have such a discussion in a public way without misappropriated charges of racist / racism being invoked at every possible turn of the discussion.

I recall back in 1991 when fresh out of college, I was working a job in large company that was then starting a "diversity committee" to bring (diversity) awareness to the company through departmental representatives who would meet regularly. Being a Social Work major, this was something I was keenly interested in, but held back because I respected the idea that a longer term employee in the same department would possibly wish to tackle it. I waited a good 4 days and saw no one being interested. So, I told the department manager I was keenly interested. This manager was widely known as very liberal. A successful female manager in the early 1990's. I liked her and was fond of her. But about a day after my request, she pulled me aside and said, "there's no way I can put a white guy on that committee, sorry." That to me, is the epitome of the Left's view on attempting to overcome racial differences and the PC approach to monopolizing how all discussion must appear. The appearance being far more important than content.

C) We've had plenty of time, opportunity and means to address social and economic roots of racial conflict. If electing an African American POTUS hasn't gotten us anywhere closer to significantly addressing those roots, I'm very unclear on what the Left thinks will magically occur under the PC approach to advance the national conversation. And observably, having Obama as POTUS has possibly increased the divide. I very much get that we can scapegoat the 'far right' as to why that is, but I see it more as failure of the PC approach. I honestly believe the collective view (Right, Left, Middle) was that because of the IDENTITY of the current POTUS, that circa 2008 we can all breathe a deep sigh of relief and realize we are now in prime position to address social and economic roots of racial conflict, in a reasonable manner. Circa 2010, I would say we all started to realize that - nope, that reasonable discussion is just as far away as it was before Obama took office. By 2015, I would say everyone paying attention realized it was unlikely to occur under Obama. Instead, anything that came up on the front of racial differences was met with the same misguided approach that PC has brought us via its brand of monopolizing the discussion through appearances and misappropriation of terminology. Such that if anything resembling 'white lives matter equally' came about, it was framed as inherently racist and ignoring of all racial differences in the last 200 years, and ought not to be spoken about. We, of the PC crowd, don't need that type of rhetoric that seeks equality. That's foolish. But hey, we're okay with a 'black lives matter' movement that essentially can say anything / protest violently and if anyone takes issue with this, they of course must be inherently racist.

I honestly think that to be willing to have the mature discussion, and to address the complex issues in a direct, honest, simple way one (or everyone) has to be willing to see both sides of whatever issues are being brought to the table for discussion. An actual racist would not be wanting to do this. Or perhaps more accurate to say, unable to do this in a reasonable manner. The PC approach has, thus far, dissuaded people from looking at both sides without the filter of one side being seen as inherently racist, and the other as inherently oppressed. Seemingly not realizing that what the PC approach is actually trying to do is flip the script on who gets to be inherently racist and who deserves now to be inherently oppressed. And somehow, magically, that will help all work towards equality. I observe that to be failing, abysmally. Trump isn't the answer to overcoming all racial divide, but is a sufficient counter to the misguided approach of political correctness.

If you can't find it in yourself to see both sides of the issue(s) that Trump brings to the table, can't find a way to be direct and honest in discussing Trumps latest remarks, and instead need to scapegoat him / his supporters as engaging in some form of (incoherent) racism, then IMO, you are unable to have the critical thinking discussion that is well underway but easily missed because PC has blinders on, is stuck in (oh let's go with) 1947 and the epitome of identity politics.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
For the way I interpret what you are getting at, but spun clockwise, is that the Left has stoked fears and anxieties around all identity differences, as a (populist) way to garner votes and attempted to corner all discussions in this vein through the misguided practice of political correctness...
Sorry, but I'm going to call this for what it is, and that is that the above is simply disingenuous nonsense. The people citing Trump for making "racist" remarks are not just those on the "Left" as many Pubs have said exactly the same thing using exactly the same word. You know why? Because Trump is stating racist things even if you personally have a different definition of "racism" that you prefer to use.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Sorry, but I'm going to call this for what it is, and that is that the above is simply disingenuous nonsense. The people citing Trump for making "racist" remarks are not just those on the "Left" as many Pubs have said exactly the same thing using exactly the same word. You know why? Because Trump is stating racist things even if you personally have a different definition of "racism" that you prefer to use.

Nope, what you are stating is disingenuous nonsense that I'm confident you cannot defend intellectually. Name one racist thing Trump has stated.

I'm using dictionary definition of the term racism. What is your source? PC logic?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Nope, what you are stating is disingenuous nonsense that I'm confident you cannot defend intellectually. Name one racist thing Trump has stated.

I'm using dictionary definition of the term racism. What is your source? PC logic?
If you think I'm going to engage you on a word that most people understand and use, you got another think coming. Hey, go right ahead and work on your own "dictionary", but I'm not going to feed this nonsense any longer. If you justify Trump's many racist remarks as you have, then I just have to assume that this is normal for you probably because you use much the same racist statements yourself. Why else would you defend that which is indefensible? As I used as an example before, the crooks often don't believe they're crooks as they almost always have a contrived excuse, much like what you're doing here.

So, maybe it's time to go back and work on your own "dictionary", but as for me, I'd rather discuss things with people who know what the word "racism" actually means and are willing to use it when appropriate. And since so many on both the "Left" and the "Right" have used it against Trump, I'm much more at home with their quite honest assessment of where he's coming from.

The End.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
If you think I'm going to engage you on a word that most people understand and use, you got another think coming. Hey, go right ahead and work on your own "dictionary", but I'm not going to feed this nonsense any longer.

Because you lack critical thinking skills. Check.

If you justify Trump's many racist remarks as you have, then I just have to assume that this is normal for you probably because you use much the same racist statements yourself.

I have not justified Trumps remarks. I have just accurately asserted that they don't rise to the level of racism. You are welcome to find any such comments I have made and expose them to me/everyone. I would have zero issue with that.

Why else would you defend that which is indefensible?

That would be a good question for those who are misappropriating the racism charge. Why are they defending this as 'definite racism' when it is indefensible? To me, it is to give off impression of being politically correct. My defense is for critical thinking. Why jump to racism when we have other words which accurately depict Trump's comments? With political correctness in play, as it stands now, everyone is plausibly a racist and any comment on race (positive or negative) would expose this, unless you are being protected by the disingenuous Left.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Gotta stop here because of assertion: The "Trump brand" means that people feel vindicated in expressing racist views because it has become acceptable for a successful billionaire to express singular statements that are highly prejudicial, stereotypical and discriminatory BUT does not represent a coherent "ideological" racism such as Nazism.

Expressing views on racial differences does not make for racist views. Or, I'd like to see you provide example of expressing racial differences that rise to level of racism. For if this were remotely accurate, then BLM in both name and likely many other expressions would be inherently racist. As I don't believe that, then I'm not going in that direction until, unless I see what you come up with for Trump in equating expressions of racial differences mean manifesting racism. As I do realize you are asserting something slightly different (regarding supporters, more so than Trump), I'd rather make it front and center with examples than making this about "Trump brand."

For the way I interpret what you are getting at, but spun clockwise, is that the Left has stoked fears and anxieties around all identity differences, as a (populist) way to garner votes and attempted to corner all discussions in this vein through the misguided practice of political correctness. Not just in the past few months, but past few decades. And Trump has brought this to a forefront by having the nerve to counter that. Of course that's going to be ugly at times, and going to engage in discrimination, prejudice and stereotyping to counter the Left's ugly version of those traits. There's a bunch of debate points to be had here, some of which when they present Trump would be, IMO, impossible to not see Trump as engaging in high level of prejudice, and likely on occasion, bigotry. At other times, I think it is countering what is the PC understandings and logic of how the discussion must also be framed. This thread's title / main subject being one of those examples. PC rushed to judgment of 'racism' and ran with that for all its worth. Suggesting this is 'textbook version' of racism. Not just the Left, but people on the Right. I am yet to see anyone defend this in a coherent way. Thus, Trump had actually countered this approach before and after his controversial, prejudice remark.



A) Had you said "simply making expressing racial differences as taboo" - I could be a bit more on board with what you are conveying. This notion that it is inherently racism is merely a symptom of the PC failure to have the discussion that would get at the root of more complex problems.

B) I honestly see the Left's attempts to monopolize the discussion and essentially expose everyone (on the Right, but never ever on the left) as inherently racist as way of sidetracking the larger debate that is overdue, but can't be had because seemingly only those on the Left are invited into 'reasonable discussions on actively addressing social and economic roots of racial conflict.' I literally don't see how it is possible for anyone on the Right to have such a discussion in a public way without misappropriated charges of racist / racism being invoked at every possible turn of the discussion.

I recall back in 1991 when fresh out of college, I was working a job in large company that was then starting a "diversity committee" to bring (diversity) awareness to the company through departmental representatives who would meet regularly. Being a Social Work major, this was something I was keenly interested in, but held back because I respected the idea that a longer term employee in the same department would possibly wish to tackle it. I waited a good 4 days and saw no one being interested. So, I told the department manager I was keenly interested. This manager was widely known as very liberal. A successful female manager in the early 1990's. I liked her and was fond of her. But about a day after my request, she pulled me aside and said, "there's no way I can put a white guy on that committee, sorry." That to me, is the epitome of the Left's view on attempting to overcome racial differences and the PC approach to monopolizing how all discussion must appear. The appearance being far more important than content.

C) We've had plenty of time, opportunity and means to address social and economic roots of racial conflict. If electing an African American POTUS hasn't gotten us anywhere closer to significantly addressing those roots, I'm very unclear on what the Left thinks will magically occur under the PC approach to advance the national conversation. And observably, having Obama as POTUS has possibly increased the divide. I very much get that we can scapegoat the 'far right' as to why that is, but I see it more as failure of the PC approach. I honestly believe the collective view (Right, Left, Middle) was that because of the IDENTITY of the current POTUS, that circa 2008 we can all breathe a deep sigh of relief and realize we are now in prime position to address social and economic roots of racial conflict, in a reasonable manner. Circa 2010, I would say we all started to realize that - nope, that reasonable discussion is just as far away as it was before Obama took office. By 2015, I would say everyone paying attention realized it was unlikely to occur under Obama. Instead, anything that came up on the front of racial differences was met with the same misguided approach that PC has brought us via its brand of monopolizing the discussion through appearances and misappropriation of terminology. Such that if anything resembling 'white lives matter equally' came about, it was framed as inherently racist and ignoring of all racial differences in the last 200 years, and ought not to be spoken about. We, of the PC crowd, don't need that type of rhetoric that seeks equality. That's foolish. But hey, we're okay with a 'black lives matter' movement that essentially can say anything / protest violently and if anyone takes issue with this, they of course must be inherently racist.

I honestly think that to be willing to have the mature discussion, and to address the complex issues in a direct, honest, simple way one (or everyone) has to be willing to see both sides of whatever issues are being brought to the table for discussion. An actual racist would not be wanting to do this. Or perhaps more accurate to say, unable to do this in a reasonable manner. The PC approach has, thus far, dissuaded people from looking at both sides without the filter of one side being seen as inherently racist, and the other as inherently oppressed. Seemingly not realizing that what the PC approach is actually trying to do is flip the script on who gets to be inherently racist and who deserves now to be inherently oppressed. And somehow, magically, that will help all work towards equality. I observe that to be failing, abysmally. Trump isn't the answer to overcoming all racial divide, but is a sufficient counter to the misguided approach of political correctness.

If you can't find it in yourself to see both sides of the issue(s) that Trump brings to the table, can't find a way to be direct and honest in discussing Trumps latest remarks, and instead need to scapegoat him / his supporters as engaging in some form of (incoherent) racism, then IMO, you are unable to have the critical thinking discussion that is well underway but easily missed because PC has blinders on, is stuck in (oh let's go with) 1947 and the epitome of identity politics.

You are wasting my time. I have to second @metis in telling you how ridiculously evasive you have been in your replies and whilst you have written a lot- you have said absolutely nothing. None sense is an accurate way to describe it. I will save you the time from accusing me of not thinking "critically" by engaging in further appeasement of your own inability to engage in a discussion by putting you on ignore. As I am "blinkered" by political correctness I am sure it will only reinforce your preconceptions.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
You are wasting my time. I have to second @metis in telling you how ridiculously evasive you have been in your replies and whilst you have written a lot- you have said absolutely nothing. None sense is an accurate way to describe it. I will save you the time from accusing me of not thinking "critically" by engaging in further appeasement of your own inability to engage in a discussion by putting you on ignore. As I am "blinkered" by political correctness I am sure it will only reinforce your preconceptions.

I'm sorry for accusing you of inability to engage in critical thinking when closed mindedness would've been far more accurate.
 
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