Misquote in the Gospel

[Oeste]

They have corrected that.

Really? Where???

You told me they weren't prophets. I posted a publication from the Watchtower that specifically claims they are.

Now you tell me "they corrected that". So where's the correction? If you lied to us about them being prophets before, why on earth should we believe anything about them not being prophets now?

You claim one thing, the Watchtower claims another. Your either in denial or a state of apostasy from the Organization.

Its 2017--its NOW that matters. Same between you and God. If you corrected or repented--God does not remember your sin or error from the past--The true followers do the same for all.

I think I understand how this "new light" thinking works in your Organization:

Mary is a devout Jehovah Witness, sitting in her living room, worried to death about her daughter, Becky. It’s 3 am and she hasn’t come home yet. An old friend, Rosette, is in the kitchen, keeping her company and making tea.

Mary: “I’m really worried about her, Rosette. I don’t know where Becky could be. She hasn’t called or anything.”

Rosette: “Don’t worry; I’m sure she’ll show up.”

Just then the doorknob turns, the door opens and Becky bounds into the room.

Mary: “Becky! Where have you been? I’ve been worried to death thinking about you!!”

Becky: “Oh, Kim and I decided to have a pizza at O’Reilly’s Pub down the street.”​

But Rosette walks in from the kitchen carrying tea. “That’s not possible Becky, because I just left my daughter sleeping in her bed to come over here”.

Becky: “Sorry. I meant to say Judy. Yes, I was with Judy the whole time.”

Mary: “But Becky, I called Judy and she said she hadn’t seen you in a week.”

Becky: “Now that I think about it, you're right. There was an after school study party at Gwen’s and we ordered out for some pizza. Sorry to get home late.”​

With that Mary gets up and plants a kiss on Becky’s cheek. “Glad you made it back safely dear. Now we can all get some rest.”

But Rosette is astounded. “First she tells you she was with my daughter eating pizza at O’Reilly’s. Then she says it was with Judy, and finally she says she was at an all-night study party at Gwen’s! All without so much as an apology!! Mary, how can you give her a kiss on the cheek?”

“Ah,” Mary replies, “I sometimes forget how worldly you can be Rosette. I am a Jehovah Witness. What Becky said in the past doesn’t matter. It’s what she says NOW that’s important!”

 

[savagewind]

"“Ah,” Mary replies, “I sometimes forget how worldly you can be Rosette. I am a Jehovah Witness. What Becky said in the past doesn’t matter. It’s what she says NOW that’s important!”"

I did a thread on lying and I found that the common belief about lying is it applies only to communications that the person KNOWS are not true. So, it seems to me that the World sides with the Jehovah's Witnesses about that. They didn't know their dates were not really the end of the world. Everything they have ever said wrong does not count as lying, supposedly.

 

[savagewind]

Maybe Becky was so drunk she didn't remember where she was and with whom she was.
Her mother should have asked her, "have you been drinking?".

And these also stagger from wine and reel from beer: Priests and prophets stagger from beer and are befuddled with wine; they reel from beer, they stagger when seeing visions, they stumble when rendering decisions. Isaiah 28:7

By their saying,"God says" that makes them prophets (whether they call themselves that or not), and by their saying, "do good to us and God will do good to you", that makes them priests (whether they are able to imagine that, or not).

 

[Oeste]

I did a thread on lying and I found that the common belief about lying is it applies only to communications that the person KNOWS are not true. So, it seems to me that the World sides with the Jehovah's Witnesses about that. They didn't know their dates were not really the end of the world. Everything they have ever said wrong does not count as lying, supposedly.

From a worldly perspective perhaps, but from a biblical perspective it doesn’t matter whether the person knows he is lying, it’s a matter of whether the words are truthful or not.

Presidential candidate George H.W. Bush once infamously said “Read my lips: no new taxes” at the Republican National Convention. Upon ascending to the presidency, he promptly raised taxes, which came back to bite him later on.

So from a worldly standpoint you can make the argument that candidate Bush didn’t really KNOW he was going to raise taxes, but from a biblical standard this make his statement no less a lie because the words he spoke were not truthful.

Jehovah doesn’t ask us to evaluate whether the person who speaks falsely knows that they are speaking falsely. He simply asks whether the words are true or false.

18 I will raise up a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him. 19 I will personally deal with anyone who will not listen to the messages the prophet proclaims on my behalf. 20 But any prophet who falsely claims to speak in my name or who speaks in the name of another god must die.’

21 “But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ 22 If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18)​

So it is JEHOVAH who puts the words in the mouth of the prophet. Once that happens, the prophet WILL tell the people everything God command him. it doesn’t matter whether the prophet understands his words to be true or not. They are true because God gave the prophet the words to speak.

The Watchtower gave the “Creators promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away”. I am absolutely sure they believed this prediction was correct but it is still a false prophesy. As such, there is no need for members to fear the Organization and they are free to leave. Had this issue of Awake! been published in ancient Israel every member of the “FDS” would have been put to death once the 70-80 year generation that "saw" the events of 1914 had passed.

 

[savagewind]

From a worldly perspective perhaps, but from a biblical perspective it doesn’t matter whether the person knows he is lying, it’s a matter of whether the words are truthful or not.

Presidential candidate George H.W. Bush once infamously said “Read my lips: no new taxes” at the Republican National Convention. Upon ascending to the presidency, he promptly raised taxes, which came back to bite him later on.

So from a worldly standpoint you can make the argument that candidate Bush didn’t really KNOW he was going to raise taxes, but from a biblical standard this make his statement no less a lie because the words he spoke were not truthful.

Jehovah doesn’t ask us to evaluate whether the person who speaks falsely knows that they are speaking falsely. He simply asks whether the words are true or false.

18 I will raise up a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him. 19 I will personally deal with anyone who will not listen to the messages the prophet proclaims on my behalf. 20 But any prophet who falsely claims to speak in my name or who speaks in the name of another god must die.’

21 “But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ 22 If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18)​

So it is JEHOVAH who puts the words in the mouth of the prophet. Once that happens, the prophet WILL tell the people everything God command him. it doesn’t matter whether the prophet understands his words to be true or not. They are true because God gave the prophet the words to speak.

The Watchtower gave the “Creators promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away”. I am absolutely sure they believed this prediction was correct but it is still a false prophesy. As such, there is no need for members to fear the Organization and they are free to leave. Had this issue of Awake! been published in ancient Israel every member of the “FDS” would have been put to death once the 70-80 year generation that "saw" the events of 1914 had passed.

I think that you have made some good points.

They have lied many, many times and they are lying when they tell their people that Satan will get the best of them if they leave the organization.

 

[kjw47]

A person who speaks in God's name falsely is a false prophet.
I am sure that Heaven doesn't care if they do not call themselves prophets.

Do you mean like the teachers who throw Jesus away to teach--heaven or hell as ones end? That is a false prophecy not made by God.
Harmageddon is a real prophecy made by God.

 

[kjw47]

How does any mortal know it?

The wise ones read the bible--over and over. No matter how many times one does, they still learn new things.

 

[savagewind]

Do you mean like the teachers who throw Jesus away to teach--heaven or hell as ones end? That is a false prophecy not made by God.
Harmageddon is a real prophecy made by God.

IF people of Earth keep on ignoring God's will be done, which is LIFE, there WILL be hell on Earth.
Correct?

 

[savagewind]

The wise ones read the bible--over and over. No matter how many times one does, they still learn new things.

Haha. Did you miss this one? John 5:39

How about Romans 2:9-10?

DOES, not knows.

Do you really not understand?

3 But do you suppose, O man, that while you judge those who practice such things and yet you do them, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his kindness+ and forbearance*+ and patience,+ because you do not know that God in his kindness is trying to lead you to repentance?+ 5 But according to your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and of the revealing of God’s righteous judgment.+6 And he will pay back to each one according to his works:+7 everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness+ by endurance in work that is good; 8 however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and anger.+ 9 There will be tribulation and distress on every person* who works what is harmful, on the Jew first and also on the Greek;10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who works what is good, for the Jew first+ and also for the Greek.+ 11 For there is no partiality with God.+

YOU teach that to please Jehovah a person must KNOW what you know. The Bible teaches that a person's actions are what pleases God.

 

[Oeste]

They aren't prophets. You listen to lies and believe them.

You mean this lie?

View attachment 16618​

I'm still waiting for a rational answer from kjw on this, and why he blames me for listening to this lie when I was never a Jehovah Witness.

Wasn't it you who claimed to be a JW since 1961? So when the Organization printed this in 1972 you must have believed they were prophets when they published it. Not kind-of-prophets, not sort-of-prophets, not so-called-prophets, but the actual "real deal", non-qualified, dyed in the wool, "The Nations shall know" prophets they claimed to be at the time. So why are you claiming it was me when it was actually you who listened to this stuff?

Wasn't it "Christendom" who claimed your Organization wasn't prophetic, which is something you agree with now but condemned it for in 1972?

Look, I'll be quite glad to learn that your Organization has finally adopted the Christendom teaching that neither the Watchtower or its leaders are prophetic. We've been telling you to stop fixing dates all along but it took what? Over a 100 years to set in???

Now you blame me for listening to your Organization's lie, justify it by saying "they corrected that" (but can't show us when or where the "correction" was made), and somehow this all makes some kind of spiritual sense to you.

Sad. Just sad.

 

[kjw47]

IF people of Earth keep on ignoring God's will be done, which is LIFE, there WILL be hell on Earth.
Correct?

Few know God, less know his will.
Hebrew =Sheol= Greek = Hades--the grave)--Hades = hell.

 

[savagewind]

Few know God, less know his will.
Hebrew =Sheol= Greek = Hades--the grave)--Hades = hell.

Do you KNOW you are avoiding our questions, or do you think that you are actually answering them?

 

[savagewind]

Few know God, less know his will.
Hebrew =Sheol= Greek = Hades--the grave)--Hades = hell.

OK. So you know that the past teachers of hell were really trying to communicate that hell means dead means suffering. HOW?

Please consider that they were just trying to tell us that it is we who make hell for certain ones.

Just tell us how you know your understanding is the right one.......even though........it might change.

 

[kjw47]

Haha. Did you miss this one? John 5:39

How about Romans 2:9-10?

DOES, not knows.

Do you really not understand?

3 But do you suppose, O man, that while you judge those who practice such things and yet you do them, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his kindness+ and forbearance*+ and patience,+ because you do not know that God in his kindness is trying to lead you to repentance?+ 5 But according to your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and of the revealing of God’s righteous judgment.+6 And he will pay back to each one according to his works:+7 everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness+ by endurance in work that is good; 8 however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and anger.+ 9 There will be tribulation and distress on every person* who works what is harmful, on the Jew first and also on the Greek;10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who works what is good, for the Jew first+ and also for the Greek.+ 11 For there is no partiality with God.+

YOU teach that to please Jehovah a person must KNOW what you know. The Bible teaches that a person's actions are what pleases God.

Yes, God requires all to do good. It pleases God. Even the wicked do good. The wicked will NOT enter Gods kingdom--those who have washed their robes white will.
There are 2 billion serving a non existent-trinity-- How do you think God feels about that? He was clear in the ot about it--a death sentence.
One must know truth to serve the true living God--he accepts no less-John 4:22-24--and there will be no excuse--Dan 12:4-- assures truth is here.

 

[savagewind]

Yes, God requires all to do good. It pleases God. Even the wicked do good. The wicked will NOT enter Gods kingdom--those who have washed their robes white will.
There are 2 billion serving a non existent-trinity-- How do you think God feels about that? He was clear in the ot about it--a death sentence.
One must know truth to serve the true living God--he accepts no less-John 4:22-24--and there will be no excuse--Dan 12:4-- assures truth is here.

John 4:22-24 says nothing about if you don't you will die. Why are you making it say that?
You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth

 

[kjw47]

I'm still waiting for a rational answer from kjw on this, and why he blames me for listening to this lie when I was never a Jehovah Witness.

Wasn't it you who claimed to be a JW since 1961? So when the Organization printed this in 1972 you must have believed they were prophets when they published it. Not kind-of-prophets, not sort-of-prophets, not so-called-prophets, but the actual "real deal", non-qualified, dyed in the wool, "The Nations shall know" prophets they claimed to be at the time. So why are you claiming it was me when it was actually you who listened to this stuff?

Wasn't it "Christendom" who claimed your Organization wasn't prophetic, which is something you agree with now but condemned it for in 1972?

Look, I'll be quite glad to learn that your Organization has finally adopted the Christendom teaching that neither the Watchtower or its leaders are prophetic. We've been telling you to stop fixing dates all along but it took what? Over a 100 years to set in???

Now you blame me for listening to your Organization's lie, justify it by saying "they corrected that" (but can't show us when or where the "correction" was made), and somehow this all makes some kind of spiritual sense to you.

Sad. Just sad.

Every treacherous and desperate heart( Jer 17:9) on earth--reasons falsely to fit their own agendas.
Fact that no mortal can get by no matter what =

The teachings of Jesus prove the JW teachers are correct.

 

[kjw47]

OK. So you know that the past teachers of hell were really trying to communicate that hell means dead means suffering. HOW?

Please consider that they were just trying to tell us that it is we who make hell for certain ones.

Just tell us how you know your understanding is the right one.......even though........it might change.

It cannot change--Deut 30:19---Life or death is the offering to all.
Suffering in this way--- As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those thrown into the lake of fire miss each new dawning day--eternally--it never ends.

 

[kjw47]

John 4:22-24 says nothing about if you don't you will die. Why are you making it say that?
You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth

Every mortal on earth, not knowing truth to be able to serve God, are living lies--being mislead by satan to partake off the table of demons on a daily basis( 1Cor 10:21) God says one cannot do that--yet billions are doing just that.
There is one God, one truth, in one religion. The rest are owned and operated by the will of satan. God showed all in Noahs day--how he deals with the mislead.

 

[savagewind]

Every treacherous and desperate heart( Jer 17:9) on earth--reasons falsely to fit their own agendas.
Fact that no mortal can get by no matter what =

The teachings of Jesus prove the JW teachers are correct.

Please tell us what Jesus said to prove that you guys are the right ones.

 

[savagewind]

Dear @kjw47 What did Jesus teach that proves to you that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses should be trusted?