Mississippi Governor Proclaims Confederate Heritage Month

[Twilight Hue]

OK if you insist. But the states did not consider African Americans to be fully people. Horrible.

That's true , but keep in mind everyone was involved in the slave trade in the day. North and South.

But credit is due to those who saw the injustice of slavery and most obviously in the north of course along with Abraham Lincoln.
I have a feeling had the Confederacy won the war, slavery would still be abolished albiet a time later as the world outside the states were changing as well on the matter.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Spoiler: How We Learned Slavery Was Wrong - video

A video of a lecture at Gresham College which delves into how Protestant Christians learned to eschew slavery and then dragged the rest of the world into a similar position. Its how we got involved in slavery, how we let industry talk us into supporting it (and in particular supporting the fable that is race), how we finally got rid of it. 52 minutes in length.

 

[fantome profane]

I have a feeling had the Confederacy won the war, slavery would still be abolished albiet a time later as the world outside the states were changing as well on the matter.

I have a feeling it would have required another civil war. And perhaps another after that. Until the anti-slavery side won.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Spoiler: How We Learned Slavery Was Wrong - video

A video of a lecture at Gresham College which delves into how Protestant Christians learned to eschew slavery and then dragged the rest of the world into a similar position. Its how we got involved in slavery, how we let industry talk us into supporting it (and in particular supporting the fable that is race), how we finally got rid of it. 52 minutes in length.

Actually while slavery was mostly abolished, it hasn't gone away. This nation is still engaged as an active pro-slave nation with the plantation master being the state as opposed to individuals.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I have a feeling it would have required another civil war. And perhaps another after that. Until the anti-slavery side won.

It's one of those alternative historical scenarios where we will never find out, but I think global pressures would have played a major role particularly involving the slave trade with the British.

 

[Viker]

Actually while slavery was mostly abolished, it hasn't gone away. This nation is still engaged as an active pro-slave nation with the plantation master being the state as opposed to individuals.

But who are the slaves? Where/how can they be identified?

 

[Twilight Hue]

But who are the slaves? Where/how can they be identified?

Just look at the prison system and the countless laws to ensure incarceration and forced labor for profit.

 

[Soandso]

Just look at the prison system and the countless laws to ensure incarceration and forced labor for profit.

Truth ^^^

 

[Brickjectivity]

When I think of the confederate soldiers I also think of the union soldiers. Those who denigrate these soldiers also denigrate the union soldiers. All died for two things: to end slavery and to cement the union. Whatever they thought were fighting for (against slavery or for), that was what come of their deaths which are to be remembered. Many children grew up without a parent, and many women were widowed. Now we are Americans, free people; and this war is the testament to it. So many deaths devastated the states for decades. It was only after the war ended that it became a seal upon the union. It is understood differently in hindsight. Remembering soldiers in this war is particularly important -- unless we are thinking of dissolving the union again

The war we all fought was so terrible that people stopped saying that we were from 'Virginia' or 'Ohio'. We started to say we were from America or from the USA. Even of the soldiers who win wars they often are forgotten by their own countries. As were the union soldiers treated as garbage after the fact by their own government. Veterans become conveniently forgotten after the fact.

 

[F1fan]

That's true , but keep in mind everyone was involved in the slave trade in the day. North and South.

But credit is due to those who saw the injustice of slavery and most obviously in the north of course along with Abraham Lincoln.
I have a feeling had the Confederacy won the war, slavery would still be abolished albiet a time later as the world outside the states were changing as well on the matter.

I have a feeling it would have required another civil war. And perhaps another after that. Until the anti-slavery side won.

These alternative history speculations are interesting. If the North had accepted the South being a separate nation we could have seen slavery extend well into the 1900's. I would think if there was never a civil war slavery would have ended during WW2. I say this given the supression of civil rights in the South until federal civil rights laws were passed and enforced in the 1960's. Even in 2024 there are gerrymandered congressional maps that discriminate against black citizens.

 

[Brickjectivity]

These alternative history speculations are interesting. If the North had accepted the South being a separate nation we could have seen slavery extend well into the 1900's.

...and around the world things would be much much worse today.

 

[Revoltingest]

Heck yeah! We should all wear red coats on that day.

And sabotage someone!

 

[F1fan]

...and around the world things would be much much worse today.

How's that? The USA was quite isolationist. And England would have enjoyed the cheap cotton that the South offered.

 

[Brickjectivity]

How's that? The USA was quite isolationist. And England would have enjoyed the cheap cotton that the South offered.

Isolationist, yet it was influenced by England's leadership. England had populations boycotting slave sugar and abolished slavery well before the USA, and its people influenced the USA which later would influence other nations. In 1807 US Congress banned importing slaves though slavery continued. Following England's example USA after the civil war turned to abolition. The war and deaths were framed as punishment for the sin of slavery. After a century US isolationism began to turn into something else, and USA began to push for abolition around the world.

 

[We Never Know]

No it's not nice but in America people have a right to say things that aren't nice, that offend you and that you would prefer not to hear.

To do and say

 

[lewisnotmiller]

No it's not nice but in America people have a right to say things that aren't nice, that offend you and that you would prefer not to hear.

And the State should celebrate it?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That's not what this declaration in Mississippi is for though. Mississippi recently removed the rebel flag from our state flag. This month is part of reverence for the dead whose deaths was used to reforge the nation into a single unit which had been divided through political squabbling and greed.

As an outsider, wouldn't it make more sense to commemorate and mourn the fallen, than specifically have a Confederate History aspect?

Tomorrow in Australia is ANZAC Day, a fairly sombre occassion for those who participate. I'll be up by 5am to attend a dawn service at which the fallen of our country, and of our neighbours (New Zealand) will be remembered.

More than once I've heard references to the fallen of all nations, and no one blinked, despite the war crimes of the Axis Powers. And one speech specifically addressed the Turkish forces at Gallipoli, and how they were made up of young men fighting for their homelands, just as our young men would have done if foreign forces landed on our shores.
It encouraged politicians to be aware of the price people paid where war was used to further political aims.

That would seem applicable and relevant in the context of the US Civil War even more so.

 

[Brickjectivity]

As an outsider, wouldn't it make more sense to commemorate and mourn the fallen, than specifically have a Confederate History aspect?

Tomorrow in Australia is ANZAC Day, a fairly sombre occassion for those who participate. I'll be up by 5am to attend a dawn service at which the fallen of our country, and of our neighbours (New Zealand) will be remembered.

More than once I've heard references to the fallen of all nations, and no one blinked, despite the war crimes of the Axis Powers. And one speech specifically addressed the Turkish forces at Gallipoli, and how they were made up of young men fighting for their homelands, just as our young men would have done if foreign forces landed on our shores.
It encouraged politicians to be aware of the price people paid where war was used to further political aims.

That would seem applicable and relevant in the context of the US Civil War even more so.

Critics argue that it romanticizes a painful period in American history, particularly because the Confederacy fought to maintain slavery. The stated reason for Confederate Heritage Month is that it serves as a way to honor the memory of the soldiers who fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War, which doesn't sound bad to me. I do think it is a sign that North and South are still a bit at odds. Perhaps in future such feelings will be expiated and forgot, but they are not yet. Having a heritage month does not perpetuate them.

I think its simply to be expected, because even though over a century has passed there is still felt some responsibility as if we were there. Its like the chagrin Europeans feel about their colonizing. They weren't alive when their countries were colonizing. Its so ridiculous from my perspective when Europeans try to cancel their own culture the way that the Germans are doing it. Its not as if being a German is an evil thing, but the feelings and the baggage of that war is very strong. Similarly we have strong feelings about the civil war (which is also called the war between the states) and about slavery. Rather than trying to get rid of everything southern we look for the good in it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

And the State should celebrate it?

I think it's the tradition of southern heritage and not the hate that is being celebrated.

There's a lot more than just the injustices as different cultures abound around the country with their own unique traditions and customs not found anywhere else in the nation.

The south and the land of Dixie is no exception to the rule.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Critics argue that it romanticizes a painful period in American history, particularly because the Confederacy fought to maintain slavery. The stated reason for Confederate Heritage Month is that it serves as a way to honor the memory of the soldiers who fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War, which doesn't sound bad to me. I do think it is a sign that North and South are still a bit at odds. Perhaps in future such feelings will be expiated and forgot, but they are not yet. Having a heritage month does not perpetuate them.

I think its simply to be expected, because even though over a century has passed there is still felt some responsibility as if we were there. Its like the chagrin Europeans feel about their colonizing. They weren't alive when their countries were colonizing. Its so ridiculous from my perspective when Europeans try to cancel their own culture the way that the Germans are doing it. Its not as if being a German is an evil thing, but the feelings and the baggage of that war is very strong. Similarly we have strong feelings about the civil war (which is also called the war between the states) and about slavery. Rather than trying to get rid of everything southern we look for the good in it.

That's a good way of putting it. Look for the good in it. It's a way of healing without losing cultural identity.