Missouri Republicans Introduce Bills to Charge Women Who Receive Abortions With Murder

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I still find it interesting that this is a situation
where someone can hire a killer, & suffer
no legal consequences. And do it again.

I have explained my stance already.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Those are the same people.

No they are not. You can find women's health care in texas that doesn't di abortions, even planned parenthood.

And often enough abortion is women's healthcare. But the people who write the laws are too often inapt (or unwilling) to formulate exceptions in a way that healthcare providers don't have to fear to come in conflict with the law. (As has happened all over the place. See for example the case were a 10 year old rape victim had to go out-of-state to get an abortion.) Doctors are a pretty arrogant bunch, they don't need a state nanny to tell them what is healthcare and what is murder.

Yes they do. There are many doctors that have no problem with no restrictions on abortion, Does Dr. Gosnell ring a bell?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

You should run for office.

Nope.

 

[Estro Felino]

If she survived, it's not murder.
Duh!

It's called attempted murder.
If you try to kill me, and I survive...
are you free, dearest?

 

[Quintessence]

This is why the founding fathers left religion out of the constitution. This is a progressive, secular nation from the founding.

Religion isn't the problem. Many religions affirm women's rights and would consider denial of medical care to women effectively a sin.

The problem is misogyny - and more broadly, the idea that there are different classes of citizens delineated based on factors beyond their control (e.g., sex, race, ethnicity).

 

[Estro Felino]

Those are the same people.
And often enough abortion is women's healthcare. But the people who write the laws are too often inapt (or unwilling) to formulate exceptions in a way that healthcare providers don't have to fear to come in conflict with the law. (As has happened all over the place. See for example the case were a 10 year old rape victim had to go out-of-state to get an abortion.) Doctors are a pretty arrogant bunch, they don't need a state nanny to tell them what is healthcare and what is murder.

Americans would want to deal healthcare as something private. Don't ask, don't tell approach.
In that way, a father can rape her teenage daughter, get her pregnant, and make her have an abortion.
Because the medical staff won't ask, won't tell.
In this way... rapist fathers get away with it.

In my country healthcare is public, and controlled by the State. And women need to undergo a psychologist's visit first, and the psychologist will ascertain how she got pregnant. In detail. Whether she was raped, why she didn't use contraception.
How it happened.

 

[Heyo]

Religion isn't the problem. Many religions affirm women's rights and would consider denial of medical care to women effectively a sin.

The problem is misogyny - and more broadly, the idea that there are different classes of citizens delineated based on factors beyond their control (e.g., sex, race, ethnicity).

Here we run into a problem I recently made an OP about. Can we know what they believe? Is their behaviour sufficiently explainable by stupidity or can we assume intention? I, like you, suspect malice but I'm also willing to stretch what is acceptable as stupid for religious people.
But stupid or malicious, such people shouldn't be sitting in the legislature.

 

[Heyo]

Americans would want to deal healthcare as something private. Don't ask, don't tell approach.

Obviously not. This OP is about exactly the opposite, taking healthcare out of the private hand of women and doctors and make it a state matter and they are getting the big guns to enforce their supremacy. State murder for foetus "murder". And they don't even see the hypocrisy.

 

[Estro Felino]

Obviously not. This OP is about exactly the opposite, taking healthcare out of the private hand of women and doctors and make it a state matter and they are getting the big guns to enforce their supremacy. State murder for foetus "murder". And they don't even see the hypocrisy.

A real socialist approach would be free universal healthcare: meaning that a woman will have oral contraceptives for free, paid by the State.
And if she wants tubes ligation, the operation will be free as well.
Of course abortion will be available and free as well. But contraception will be absolutely recommended: the number of abortions due to unwanted pregnancy will collapse enormously...in the US.

 

[crossfire]

It would be abortion providers that will be leaving not womens healthcare providers.

That's what they are doing in Idaho. The doctors don't want to be subject to prison for doing their job.

No OB-GYNs left in town: what came after Idaho’s assault on abortion

In Sandpoint, Idaho, the maternity ward closed down. Within months, medical care for women in the rural community was hollowed out

www.theguardian.com

'DEVASTATING BLOW TO HEALTH CARE ACCESS': Idaho hospital to stop providing pregnancy care as doctors flee state over abortion laws

A North Idaho hospital will stop offering pregnancy care this spring due, in part, to Idaho laws that criminalize abortion care.

www.idahostatejournal.com

After Idaho’s strict abortion ban, OB-GYNs stage a quick exodus

At least two hospitals are ending labor and delivery services, with one citing the state’s “legal and political climate” and noting that “recruiting replacements will be extraordinarily difficult” as doctors leave.

health.wusf.usf.edu

snippet:

​

Directors of women’s health care services at Idaho hospitals are bracing for what’s next: 75 of 117 Idaho OB-GYNs recently surveyed by the Idaho Coalition for Safe Reproductive Health Care said they were considering leaving the state. Of those, nearly 100% — 73 of 75 — cited Idaho’s restrictive abortion laws.​

​

An exodus could affect broader medical coverage for women who rely on OB-GYNs for routine and urgent gynecological care unrelated to pregnancy, like menstrual disorders, endometriosis, and pelvic pain.​

​

Idaho is one of 15 states that have implemented strict abortion laws since last year’s Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v. Wade. And while there is no official nationwide count yet, anecdotal evidence shows that women’s health specialists from states where abortion is criminalized are beginning to relocate to places like Washington state, which has strong abortion rights laws.​

​

In Seattle, for example, about 270 miles west of Sandpoint, Sarah Villareal, an OB-GYN, is now practicing medicine without fear of prosecution after moving from Texas, where performing an abortion is a felony punishable by up to life in prison. In Texas, private citizens can file civil lawsuits against anyone who “aids or abets” an abortion, earning a minimum of $10,000 for cases prosecuted successfully.​

​

The difference between Texas and Washington is stark, said Villareal, noting an atmosphere of fear and distrust at many Texas hospitals. She recalled caring for a patient in a Gulf Coast emergency room who was having a miscarriage, though the fetus still had a heartbeat. The patient, already in physical and emotional crisis, had to navigate a legal issue, too.​

​

“She was trying to figure out if me as the provider was going to report her if she did decide that she wanted to do a procedure to save her life over the life of her fetus,” Villareal recalled. “And the worst part was I could assure her that I’m going to try to do everything that I can for her, but I could not assure her that someone else in the emergency room or someone else in the operating room was not going to report her.”​

​

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

That's what they are doing in Idaho. The doctors don't want to be subject to prison for doing their job.

No OB-GYNs left in town: what came after Idaho’s assault on abortion

In Sandpoint, Idaho, the maternity ward closed down. Within months, medical care for women in the rural community was hollowed out

www.theguardian.com

'DEVASTATING BLOW TO HEALTH CARE ACCESS': Idaho hospital to stop providing pregnancy care as doctors flee state over abortion laws

A North Idaho hospital will stop offering pregnancy care this spring due, in part, to Idaho laws that criminalize abortion care.

www.idahostatejournal.com

After Idaho’s strict abortion ban, OB-GYNs stage a quick exodus

At least two hospitals are ending labor and delivery services, with one citing the state’s “legal and political climate” and noting that “recruiting replacements will be extraordinarily difficult” as doctors leave.

health.wusf.usf.edu

snippet:

​

Directors of women’s health care services at Idaho hospitals are bracing for what’s next: 75 of 117 Idaho OB-GYNs recently surveyed by the Idaho Coalition for Safe Reproductive Health Care said they were considering leaving the state. Of those, nearly 100% — 73 of 75 — cited Idaho’s restrictive abortion laws.​

​

An exodus could affect broader medical coverage for women who rely on OB-GYNs for routine and urgent gynecological care unrelated to pregnancy, like menstrual disorders, endometriosis, and pelvic pain.​

​

Idaho is one of 15 states that have implemented strict abortion laws since last year’s Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v. Wade. And while there is no official nationwide count yet, anecdotal evidence shows that women’s health specialists from states where abortion is criminalized are beginning to relocate to places like Washington state, which has strong abortion rights laws.​

​

In Seattle, for example, about 270 miles west of Sandpoint, Sarah Villareal, an OB-GYN, is now practicing medicine without fear of prosecution after moving from Texas, where performing an abortion is a felony punishable by up to life in prison. In Texas, private citizens can file civil lawsuits against anyone who “aids or abets” an abortion, earning a minimum of $10,000 for cases prosecuted successfully.​

​

The difference between Texas and Washington is stark, said Villareal, noting an atmosphere of fear and distrust at many Texas hospitals. She recalled caring for a patient in a Gulf Coast emergency room who was having a miscarriage, though the fetus still had a heartbeat. The patient, already in physical and emotional crisis, had to navigate a legal issue, too.​

​

“She was trying to figure out if me as the provider was going to report her if she did decide that she wanted to do a procedure to save her life over the life of her fetus,” Villareal recalled. “And the worst part was I could assure her that I’m going to try to do everything that I can for her, but I could not assure her that someone else in the emergency room or someone else in the operating room was not going to report her.”​

​

So this article says they have not left. Do these providers not want to take care of women if they cannot abort their babies?

 

[crossfire]

So this article says they have not left. Do these providers not want to take care of women if they cannot abort their babies?

Did you miss the part I quoted and bolded about a Texas OB-GYN who moved to Seattle because of the poisoned climate in Texas?

In Seattle, for example, about 270 miles west of Sandpoint, Sarah Villareal, an OB-GYN, is now practicing medicine without fear of prosecution after moving from Texas, where performing an abortion is a felony punishable by up to life in prison. In Texas, private citizens can file civil lawsuits against anyone who “aids or abets” an abortion, earning a minimum of $10,000 for cases prosecuted successfully.The difference between Texas and Washington is stark, said Villareal, noting an atmosphere of fear and distrust at many Texas hospitals. She recalled caring for a patient in a Gulf Coast emergency room who was having a miscarriage, though the fetus still had a heartbeat. The patient, already in physical and emotional crisis, had to navigate a legal issue, too.
“She was trying to figure out if me as the provider was going to report her if she did decide that she wanted to do a procedure to save her life over the life of her fetus,” Villareal recalled. “And the worst part was I could assure her that I’m going to try to do everything that I can for her, but I could not assure her that someone else in the emergency room or someone else in the operating room was not going to report her.”

​

 

[Orbit]

So this article says they have not left. Do these providers not want to take care of women if they cannot abort their babies?

Women just don’t matter to you, do they? Their health doesn’t matter to you. All you can see is your pet ideological issue, abortion, so you assume that’s all everyone else is concerned about, too.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Did you miss the part I quoted and bolded about a Texas OB-GYN who moved to Seattle because of the poisoned climate in Texas?

Ok, 1 provider. I went to the Texas health Resources website and found 380 providers under Obstetrics and Gynecology from 1 - 30 miles from my work. I don't see the systemic problem you are claiming. The doctor my wife sees is prolife and 10 miles from our house.

 

[Estro Felino]

Women just don’t matter to you, do they? Their health doesn’t matter to you. All you can see is your pet ideological issue, abortion, so you assume that’s all everyone else is concerned about, too.

I am interested in your take...in my thread Sex education and abortion

Also because I believe that abortion is the cure, but prevention is better than the cure.
It's like I said: dental care is more important than oral hygiene.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Women just don’t matter to you, do they? Their health doesn’t matter to you. All you can see is your pet ideological issue, abortion, so you assume that’s all everyone else is concerned about, too.

Is this what you have to believe? I have a wife, 2 daughters, a mother, sister, cousins and friends etc that are women. Of course I care about them. Do you actually think that a man being prolife means they don't care about women? What about my wife who is a woman and is prolife, does she hate women too?

This is just an emotional response that makes you feel better by deriding my character in my opinion.

 

[Orbit]

Is this what you have to believe? I have a wife, 2 daughters, a mother, sister, cousins and friends etc that are women. Of course I care about them. Do you actually think that a man being prolife means they don't care about women? What about my wife who is a woman and is prolife, does she hate women too?

This is just an emotional response that makes you feel better by deriding my character in my opinion.

It is based on what you posted. You might want to go back and read what you posted to see how it might lead someone to that conclusion.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It is based on what you posted. You might want to go back and read what you posted to see how it might lead someone to that conclusion.

Why don't you just tell me, so I know for sure why you think I don't care about women. so I don't have to guess.

 

[Orbit]

Why don't you just tell me, so I know for sure why you think I don't care about women. so I don't have to guess.

Because you made the incredibly bigoted statement about doctors just wanting to do abortions, as if that is the only reason they practice. Abortion is women’s health care. Abortion is absolutely necessary to deal with pregnancy complications. A woman should not have to wait until she is on her deathbed to get an abortion. Views like yours harm women.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Because you made the incredibly bigoted statement about doctors just wanting to do abortions, as if that is the only reason they practice. Abortion is women’s health care. Abortion is absolutely necessary to deal with pregnancy complications. A woman should not have to wait until she is on her deathbed to get an abortion. Views like yours harm women.

How does this correlate to me not liking women? BTW, I think Mrs. Cox should have been allowed to have the abortion in Texas.

I found two of my quotes that you may have taken offense to:

No. There are healthcare providers that do not do abortions and if Planned Parenthood and the like won't stay in Texas because they cannot do abortions on demand then that says something about how much they care about women's health.

In this quote I never said that was the reason they were leaving, I said IF it is the reason, then etc.

So this article says they have not left. Do these providers not want to take care of women if they cannot abort their babies?

This is a question not a statement.

So where did I make the statement that doctors just want to do abortions?