"Modern" Devi (Hinduism) shadowed in Rig Ved 10.125?

[ShivaFan]

Devi in the Rig Veda 10.125

I am noticing in the Rig Veda 10.125 translations to english which seem to me are probably speaking of Devi, and in the context of Devi as seen in modern Hinduism as the Great Goddess, Mother, and as a Goddess of the Waters, Lakes, Rivers (reminding me of the great traditions of Saraswati, Ganga and so on), as Queen of Energy, the Queen of the Mountains (I think of the Himalayan mountains, I think of Parvati and so on), Who leads battles (often I see Devi fighting Demons)...

Translations vary, so it is up to debate. Certainly Saraswati Devi is honored, but in the verses - at least in their translations to English which vary - for some reason I immediately see the "modern" Hindu Devi! (meaning, how so many think of the TIMELESS Great Goddess in worship of Durga, Kali, Parvati and so on) ...

Let me just throw some of these translations out for discussion:

10.125

.1 -

रुद्रेभिर्वसुभिश्चराम्यहमादित्यैरुतविश्वदेवैः |
ahaṃ rudrebhirvasubhiścarāmyahamādityairutaviśvadevaiḥ |

Translations

I travel with the Rudras and the Vasus, with the Ādityas and All-Gods I wander.

(ShivaFan: The Consort of all the Gods?)

.5 -

अहं राष्ट्री संगमनी वसूनां चिकितुषी परथमायज्ञियानाम |
ahaṃ rāṣṭrī saṃghamanī vasūnāṃ cikituṣī prathamāyajñiyānām |

Translations

I am the Queen! The gatherer-up of treasures, most thoughtful, first of those who merit worship!

(ShivaFan: The Queen! Female Devi. She brings wealth. Merits worship of all sects.)

.6 -

तां मा देवा वयदधुः पुरुत्राभूरिस्थात्रां भूर्यावेशयन्तीम ||
tāṃ mā devā vyadadhuḥ purutrābhūristhātrāṃ bhūryāveśayantīm ||

Thus Gods have established me in many places with many homes to enter and abide in.

(ShivaFan: Many places - Shakti Peethas? In Homes - Devi worship in homes? Ganesha and Devi are very popular in home shrines in Hindu households!)

.7 -

मया सो अन्नमत्ति यो विपश्यति यः पराणिति य ईंश्र्णोत्युक्तम |
mayā so annamatti yo vipaśyati yaḥ prāṇiti ya īṃśṛṇotyuktam |

Translations

Through me alone all eat the food that feeds them, each man who sees, breathes, hears the word outspoken.

(ShivaFan: Sounds like Annapurna! Goddess of Food)

.10 -

यं कामये तं-तमुग्रं कर्णोमि तम्ब्रह्माणं तं रषिं तं सुमेधाम ||
yaṃ kāmaye taṃ-tamughraṃ kṛṇomi tambrahmāṇaṃ taṃ ṛṣiṃ taṃ sumedhām ||

Translations

I make the man I love exceeding mighty, make him a sage, a Ṛṣi, and a Brahman.

(ShivaFan: the man I love? Sounds Female! Devi!)

.11 -

अहं रुद्राय धनुरा तनोमि बरह्मद्विषे शरवे हन्तवाु |
ahaṃ rudrāya dhanurā tanomi brahmadviṣe śarave hantavāu |

Translations

I bend the bow for Rudra that his arrow may strike and slay the hater of devotion.

(ShivaFan: Shakti of Shiva! The Power that bends the bow!)

.12 -

अहं जनाय समदं कर्णोम्यहं दयावाप्र्थिवी आविवेश ||
ahaṃ janāya samadaṃ kṛṇomyahaṃ dyāvāpṛthivī āviveśa ||

Translations

I rise and order battle for the people, and I have penetrated Earth and Heaven.

(ShivaFan: Devi leds the battles on Earth and in Heavens against Demons ... ?)

.13 -

अहं सुवे पितरमस्य मूर्धन मम योनिरप्स्वन्तः समुद्रे |
ahaṃ suve pitaramasya mūrdhan mama yonirapsvantaḥ samudre |

Translations

On the world's summit I bring forth the Father. And My home is in the waters, in the ocean.

(ShivaFan: Worlds Summit? Sounds like Himalayas! The Father of Parvati! And Devi of the jal! Down come Ganga!)

Some thoughts -

Yes, I know, some scholars say this is about Soma juices in female form, others say hints of the Saraswati River but only Saraswati and not Great Goddess in context - and, there are many English translations that give a very different view of this. For example one for .13 makes no reference to summit as if meaning a mountain at all.

But any thoughts? To me, I just cannot shake seeing the Great Goddess in these verses, verily the same Devi of modern Hinduism today.

 

[Kalidas]

Well I think a good place to find the answers are in timelines . Wasn't the Rig Veda written down before the puranas and thus before the puranic Gods that are the modern goddesses you speak of(please correct me if I am wrong)? So did these scriptures help formulate how the people saw the goddesses or were they already there and these are the first passages mentioning them?

I feel this answer will change depending on where you fall in advaita/dvaita fence. I for one am advaitan (as many of you will recall) and more or less view the God's as "lenses" used so that we may come to know the formless divinity that is Brahman. The formless given form so that we may come to know the formless.

I hope that answer didnt offend anyone, I know my views can sometimes almost come out sounding atheistic at times.

 

[Kirran]

Well I think a good place to find the answers are in timelines . Wasn't the Rig Veda written down before the puranas and thus before the puranic Gods that are the modern goddesses you speak of(please correct me if I am wrong)? So did these scriptures help formulate how the people saw the goddesses or were they already there and these are the first passages mentioning them?

I feel this answer will change depending on where you fall in advaita/dvaita fence. I for one am advaitan (as many of you will recall) and more or less view the God's as "lenses" used so that we may come to know the formless divinity that is Brahman. The formless given form so that we may come to know the formless.

I hope that answer didnt offend anyone, I know my views can sometimes almost come out sounding atheistic at times.

They can be lenses, but that doesn't make them social or cultural constructs. Many people do jump to that, and each to their own, but it isn't compulsory

 

[Kalidas]

They can be lenses, but that doesn't make them social or cultural constructs. Many people do jump to that, and each to their own, but it isn't compulsory

oh of course it is not compulsory. As I said I knew my thoughts would be unpopular, probably wrong. But I felt like adding that particular option for those that it may appeal to.

 

[DeviChaaya]

oh of course it is not compulsory. As I said I knew my thoughts would be unpopular, probably wrong. But I felt like adding that particular option for those that it may appeal to.

Not to worry @Kalidas, you're in good company with @Aupmanyav ji. I hope that I get to meet him one day!

 

[Bhadr]

(ShivaFan: The Consort of all the Gods?)

Hi,
Nope.

The Supreme Brahman Uma Parvati is Siva's consort only.She assumes various forms,both devas and their consorts have originated in Her.She alone supports all.It is mentioned in the scriptures that this hymn is addressed to Her.
____________________________________________________________________________

Sakti is one,Siva is also one.Siva is called possessor of Sakti.There are many other minor powers and possessors of those potencies born of the original Sakti.

In Her have originated Pradhana,Purusa,Mahat,Brahma,Isvara,Avidya,Niyati,Maya,Kala and
hundreds of other things.

Indeed,She is the Supreme Power,the infinite and Parameshthini.

Sri Devi said:
Know me to be the Supreme Potency abiding in the great God Maheshwara.

I am non-different from him,unchanging and the absolute,whom those desiring of salvation percieve.I am Atman of all conceived beings.I am Sivaa,the auspicious spouse of God Siva in all respects.

I am the embodiment of permanent prosperity and perfect knowledge.I am the prime mover of everything and I am endless.

Lord Siva said:
O Gauri,I am abiding in your heart.You are stationed in my heart.

This universe is woven together in every direction by you and me once,ten times,hundred times,thousand times.

O Goddess of Devas,I do not see anything without you in in the whole universe consisting of mobile and immobile beings,whether gross or subtle.
.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Certainly Saraswati Devi is honored, but in the verses - at least in their translations to English which vary - for some reason I immediately see the "modern" Hindu Devi! (meaning, how so many think of the TIMELESS Great Goddess in worship of Durga, Kali, Parvati and so on) ...

Yes, I know, some scholars say this is about Soma juices in female form, others say hints of the Saraswati River but only Saraswati and not Great Goddess in context ...

But any thoughts? To me, I just cannot shake seeing the Great Goddess in these verses, verily the same Devi of modern Hinduism today.

The hymn is for Vak, a great Goddess in Vedas, the Saraswati of modern Hinduism. You are welcome to see whatever you want to in the hymn but it does not refer to 'shakti-peethas' in any way. Saraswati is mentioned as a Goddess in RV, but it very much remains a river and not the Goddess of learning of modern Hinduism.

"Among the terrestrial deities are certain rivers that are personified and invoked in the RV. Thus the Sindhu (Indus) s celebrated as a goddess in one hymn (10.75, 2. 4. 6), and the Vipasha (Vyas) and the Shutudri (Sutlej), sister streams of the Indus, in another (3.33). The most important and oftenest lauded is, however, the Sarasvati (6.61; 7.95). Though the personification goes much further here than in the case of other streams, the connection of the goddess with the river is never lost sight of in the RV." http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/vedaread.htm

But I felt like adding that particular option for those that it may appeal to.

Yes, it appeals to me and I am not at all apologetic about it.

Bhadra, the Hindu kaleidoscope.

 

[User14]

The gatherer-up of treasures

I would like to interpret that as "the gatherer-up of all things good," but that would probably be projecting my own beliefs on the Vedics, who did seem very concerned with being granted material wealth from the deities.

I bend the bow for Rudra that his arrow may strike and slay the hater of devotion.

I've seen this verse interpreted elsewhere as conveying a Shakta message. Definitely seems that way.

On the world's summit I bring forth the Father.

It could be referencing Parvati's father as the Himalayas. Or it could be referencing the Himalayas as the place where Parvati first drew Shiva out of his asceticism, or perhaps it could be referencing Kailash, on whose summit Parvati continually does so (although one wonders if those who composed the Rig Veda ever laid eyes on that particular mountain).

I agree with others that a lot of these apparent references wouldn't have made sense until the Puranic period. But it might be that the Rishis were inspired to reference things that wouldn't be fully understood until long after their time. This is how many Christians interpret prophetic portions of the Old Testament.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I would like to interpret that as "the gatherer-up of all things good," but that would probably be projecting my own beliefs on the Vedics, who did seem very concerned with being granted material wealth from the deities.

You are not wrong. Vedic Aryans were very practical, unlike the modern philosophical Hindus. Deities were important because either they brought riches or decimated their enemies. Yes, they prayed for wisdom as well 'Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat'.

By the tenor of the hymn, I do not think Aryans had laid their eyes on Himalayas till that time. The hymn carries the scent of Eurasian steppes.

 

[User14]

When I see references to mountains in the Vedas, I sometimes wonder if they are thinking of the Hindu Kush mountains.

 

[Aupmanyav]

True or even the Afghanistan mountains. They were in Afghanistan for quite some time. But later when they settled in Sapta-Sindhu, they saw the Himalayas and the Punjab rivers.

Aryan journeys according to Zend Avesta. Location of 1 Urheimat/Ariyanem Vaejo not known