Modern Orthodox Jew introducing herself

[Regiomontanus]

I don't believe in the devil or lucifer. Since his only description is in the Christian bible and it's a very unflattering one, I wonder what you base your alternative views on.

Hello and welcome.

You are an orthodox Jew but do not believe in "the devil." So, what do think of the following:

"Satan appears in the Bible, was discussed by the rabbis of the Talmud and is explored in detail in Jewish mysticism, or Kabbalah. In Hebrew, the term Satan is usually translated as “opponent” or “adversary,” and he is often understood to represent the sinful impulse (in Hebrew, yetzer hara) or, more generally, the forces that prevents human beings from submitting to divine will. He is also sometimes regarded as a heavenly prosecutor or accuser, a view given expression in the Book of Job, where Satan encourages God to test his servant."

Do Jews Believe in Satan? | My Jewish Learning

You might be surprised to learn that Satan does appear in Jewish texts, but that doesn't mean that Satan is the Jewish devil.

www.myjewishlearning.com

God bless

 

[Elliott]

Shrugs. I don't consider him evil. I just was pointing out one view that puts Lucifer in a more positive light. Turning a myth on its head. My beliefs on Lucifer are not typical of luciferians and I don't believe the Abrahamic god to be evil in the slightest.

I dont believe in myths being literal. My experiences with Lucifer are very personal. To me he's a deity of light, knowledge, freedom, and independence. I don't believe he literally did anything with fruit and such.

The abrahamic God doesn't have anything to do with my beliefs

I have never found the use of the title of Lucifer in Jewish teachings, but i will use it here just to maintain consistency of terminology.

So far as i know (which isn't saying much) Satan (Lucifer) is only mentioned in the Abrahamic teachings, all of which cast him in a bad light. Are there other teachings that speak of him?

 

[VoidCat]

I have never found the use of the title of Lucifer in Jewish teachings, but i will use it here just to maintain consistency of terminology.

So far as i know (which isn't saying much) Satan (Lucifer) is only mentioned in the Abrahamic teachings, all of which cast him in a bad light. Are there other teachings that speak of him?

This thread isnt about me my beliefs on Lucifer. I can create a new one if you want me to answer that? I dont wish to derail this one.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I stumbled across this forum and thought I'd give it a go. A bit about myself:

- I'm blunt.
- I'm very Jewish, Modern Orthodox if that matters.
- I can't stand Messianic "Jews", "Jews" for Jesus, Christian Zionists and American evangelicals in general.
- I'm 26
- I'm a widow
- I was married to a Christian. I don't recommend interfaith marriages.
- I worked as a professional model and been around the world.
- Born in Israel, moved to Ireland when I was three.

Ask me almost anything and I'll try and answer.

Its fine to be blunt, but for the sake of saving you some trouble I point out there are unique discussion rules on RF which you may not have encountered on other forums. One of the rules to look at closely is rule 10 which is called the Dir rule. We have this idea that most of the forum is not for correcting other members. Unless an area is marked 'Debate' in its section heading the conversation tone should be about one's own opinion and should not be critical of someone else's. For example if you say you like pizza, and I say I don't that fine. If I claim you shouldn't like pizza then that is debate or if I say that your reasons for liking pizza are not valid then that is debate. The definition of 'Debate' is a little different than what many new members expect, and debate is allowed -- just not in all sections. We also have unique rules that make missionaries behave. When the rules say 'No preaching' its not just sermons but telling others that you are right absolutely as opposed to expressing your opinion. A non religious person can 'Preach', too. So be careful to understand the rules, and otherwise feel free to argue or engage in productive and hopefully fun dialogue.

 

[Revoltingest]

Are there reasons to trust your judgement on this? From where, and from whom, are you getting your Intel on Lucifer?

Are you telling me the Bible should be trusted? And your "thinking about it" is in agreement with Christian theology?

This isn't worth pursuing.

 

[ChristineM]

@Eliana
Welcome to RF where debate and discussion are civilised.

Enjoy

 

[dybmh]

This isn't worth pursuing.

I hear chickens in the distance? Are those yours? Do you raise chickens at your place?

 

[Revoltingest]

I hear chickens in the distance? Are those yours? Do you raise chickens at your place?

Tis best if you stop trying to make other
posters' introductory threads about yourself.
The rest of us are conversing.

 

[dybmh]

Tis best if you stop trying to make
introductory threads about yourself.
The rest of us are conversing.

I was asking about your chickens. It has nothing to do with me.

 

[Elliott]

This thread isnt about me my beliefs on Lucifer. I can create a new one if you want me to answer that? I dont wish to derail this one.

That might be a good idea at this point given the apparent interest in the topic.

 

[Viker]

Hello and welcome to the RF. Hope you enjoy your visit with us. Blessings!

 

[sun rise]

Welcome to RF

my tolerance for calling HaShem evil or other denigrating comments about him is zero.

One thing to note is that you will find just about if not every possible take on religious matters here. Given that statement, I suggest there are many areas where your lack of tolerance would not be tested especially in specific threads in debate sections of the forum.

 

[InChrist]

Hello and welcome.
When you say you can’t stand Christians, does that mean you can’t stand their beliefs or you can’t stand them as individuals?

 

[Kathryn]

Whew, I'm a Roman Catholic so I'm not an evangelical Christian. Also, I am sorry about your widowhood. I thought I was a young widow at age 58! I am 62 now and am still single - probably will be for the remainder of my life. I was married to another Christian, though he was Methodist and not Catholic. Oh well. We can't all be perfect!

 

[Watchmen]

I stumbled across this forum and thought I'd give it a go. A bit about myself:

- I'm blunt.
- I'm very Jewish, Modern Orthodox if that matters.
- I can't stand Messianic "Jews", "Jews" for Jesus, Christian Zionists and American evangelicals in general.
- I'm 26
- I'm a widow
- I was married to a Christian. I don't recommend interfaith marriages.
- I worked as a professional model and been around the world.
- Born in Israel, moved to Ireland when I was three.

Ask me almost anything and I'll try and answer.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does “modern orthodox” mean? It seems a contradiction.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Were you always an orthodox Jew?
Do you still live in Ireland?

Yes, born and raised. I currently live in Canada.

Interesting. I do not think I've ever encountered a Modern Orthodox Jew who, as a Modern Orthodox Jew, married outside the faith.

I very much appreciate what little I know about Canada. We'll be once again spending a little more than a week in Stratford come mid-August.

 

[VoidCat]

That might be a good idea at this point given the apparent interest in the topic.

Ill do that but give me time. Im exhausted. I had a sick kid throw up 5 times today at the daycare once nearly hitting me. He was sick enough i was worried if it kept up he might need to get an IV from dehydration. I'll need to make the thread after ive rested

 

[Elliott]

Ill do that but give me time. Im exhausted. I had a sick kid throw up 5 times today at the daycare once nearly hitting me. He was sick enough i was worried if it kept up he might need to get an IV from dehydration. I'll need to make the thread after ive rested

Sounds like a rough day indeed. Hope he feels better soon.

 

[VoidCat]

Sounds like a rough day indeed. Hope he feels better soon.

Same. I also hope I dont get it. Poor kid.

 

[Elliott]

I don't believe in the devil or lucifer. Since his only description is in the Christian bible and it's a very unflattering one, I wonder what you base your alternative views on.

There are many teaching in Torah about the Satan. Perhaps you make a distinction between the Satan and the Devil/Lucifer? I know very little about Modern Orthodox; are there areas of Torah you don't believe in?