Modern Skeptic's Bible (MSB) - Genesis Chapter 1

[dybmh]

Ironically one of your first posts accused me of ignoring you

I thought you were.

people do that here as if that were beneath you

I am not doing it in the same way. If you do not appreciate my feedback. I should ignore you, and let you say whatever you want. I have no need to knock down your ideas. What I was referring to were primarily Black Hebrew Israelites who preach online, then put people on ignore immediately as soon as the individual brings scripture which defeats the Black Hebrew Israelite preaching.

I brought you scripture which defeated your claims ( Technically JW claims ) about Nefesh. Then you did not reply. I thought you had put me on ignore like those other preachers.

 

[PureX]

I am impressed by the willingness to engage in such an undertaking.

 

[dybmh]

Do you honestly think you can say something like that in a public forum without people not even bothering to take the time express their contempt for such a statement?

Contempt?:

I wrote:

​

That's progress. I'll wait to reply more so that you have time to read, process, and reply to all I've written so far. It's a lot, Hugh. Your endeavor is NOT easy. It's foolish to underestimate it.​

You wrote:

Boy, this thread has done little to improve my opinion of the Hebrew scholar, would be an understatement.​

​

Proverbs 18:2 ESV A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.​

Then I wrote back:

​

No problem. I'll go back to ignoring your writing. I doubt anyone will take it seriously without a great deal of help from those of us who know more than you. I posted a lot of good information in this thread. If you don't find it valuable, I'm sure someone else will.​

---

So, I was polite. I referred you to using brackets. You agreed. I also offered a better category for your writing "intra-linear commentary", that will keep the critics from bashing you that you're not qualified to translate, etc... It's constructive criticism. You appreciated it at first, but then your temper flared probably because Jay was able to plant a seed in your mind that I am your enemy. But I'm not.

Then, when you were angry, you called me a fool. And insulted all Hebrew scholars as if I am the representative and case study for all of us. I was polite, you reacted with contempt. Your contempt was first.

I responded honestly, the minute you put extra-terrestrial in Gen 1, people are going to roll their eyes. You probably have great ideas, but, because of your up-bringing, you're going to be at a disadvantage bringing those ideas to the public in a way which won't get snickers and giggles. You've admitted you didn't get a science education. Using the word extra-terrestrial right in the beginning signals to the reader that they are reading science fiction. They're going to expect science, but, you have no science background.

Again, this screams "JW defector". And. You're very sensitive to any possible implication that you're not smart or uneducated. That's why my comments sting so dramatically. But it's not what I'm saying. You're very very sensitive to it. You've chosen an avatar which implies a futuristic scientific mind, but, that's not actually you. You're a big thinker and you have great ideas, but you're over compensating. You're hiding. But the harder you hide, the more you reveal. The way you're hiding says a lot about what you're trying to hide.

I'm trying to help you. You're angry. And you've fallen back on your JW doctrine. Hate those educated Jewish Rabbis. They're adopting Greek pagan stuff. They're evil. No dude. We're not. You left the flock for a reason? Good reasons? Well, the JWs are right about some tuff and wrong about others, right? Hating the Jewish Rabbi is one of the things they're wrong about.

 

[dybmh]

I very seriously doubt that will happen outside of your mind. In fact, even if the information was good, they wouldn't find it as such. What you write is for yourself and you alone. You entertain yourself. The only way you can possibly hold the attention of anyone for very long is through contention. Which is why you loath your audience and you loath yourself. When all you wanted was some attention.

It's not true. There are plenty of people who appreciate what I do and how I do it. On this forum and else where. If you're going to insult me, it needs some connection to the truth in order for it to have any effect on me.

 

[dybmh]

humble yourself

False modesty is a lie. I am awesome. A force of nature. Mighty and proud. Just like everyone else.

You messed up

Forgive me?

I swing for the fences. Always. That means I strike out sometimes. But when I knock it out of the park, it is beautiful. And truly satisfying. I am not afraid to fail. And I'm not afraid to say I'm sorry. But in this case, it really is tough love. You have a lot of potential, but you also need a lot of help with this project.

 

[I Am Hugh]

View attachment 94865

Followed by many more responses. At this point I feel it is an unnecessary distraction to the forum and a waste of both of our time. Let's take a break and maybe, if I decide to continue posting on forums, as I've recently thought to retire from it, we can continue with a reasonable and mutually respectful dialogue.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Genesis Chapter 1
1 The beginning of earthling man began when a highly intelligent extraterrestrial being created the universe, including the earth. 2 The earth was at first dark and desolate, but his dynamic energy was concentrated on the surface of the waters. 3 Then he arranged it so that light could be utilized on the planet, and so light gradually began to appear.

It's an interesting endeavor, but why call it a skeptic's Bible? It's still full of unfalsifiable claims that skeptics reject.

Jimi could not read or write music.

Most folk musicians can't.

If you don't mind, how about a lengthy digression on folk music versus classical, since you seem to be a fan of some of the same music I like?

Spoiler: off topic musical digression

Broadly speaking, we can divide musicians into formally trained musicians who play from standard notation as with a string quartet or symphony musician, and the rest, who can be called folk musicians. I'm one of the latter. I learned how to read standard notation, but it's not how I notated songs when I was figuring them out from recordings, and not what the song sheets that I gave other musicians in the band to play from.

Folk musicians include rock, blues, country, bluegrass, and more.

Plus, formal musicians don't generally improvise. A trained pianist plays only the chords and melodies as written, whereas the Grateful Dead's keyboardist wasn't looking at anything written and played every version of any given song at least slightly differently.

But yes, Hendrix was one of a kind. His music still sounds fresh and modern today. Nobody needs to re-record All Along The Watchtower (a Dylan song) although many have, including one of my favorite bands, The Grateful Dead, but not as well in my opinion. "Let us not talk falsely now. The hour is getting late."

Have you ever seen tablature, or just tab? On the top is standard notation. It's for any instrument that can play chords (on the left) or a melody (on the right), but the bottom notation is only for guitar. Standard notation is on five lined staffs where lines and spaces stand for notes modified by the sharps and flats in the key signature, but the tab is on a six-lined "staff" which represent the six strings of a guitar, and tells you which fret to put a finger on. Standard notation also provides a time signature, and the notes indicate how much of a measure they should occupy.

Like I said, I read both, both never use the standard for anything. The design on the left tells you that this is a treble clef, and that the lines stand for EGBDF, or every good boy deserves favor as many have learned it. The two sharp signs tell us that F's (the top line of the staff) and C's (the second space) are all sharped, and that this music is in the key of D major, which diatonic scale (do-re-mi) goes D-E-F#-G-A-B-C#-D.

The C means common time, or 4/4 time (ONE-two-three-four, ONE-two-three-four), tells us that each measure has four beats, and that a quarter note is worth one unit of a beat.

But the guitarist doesn't need any of that except to know where to put his fingers on the neck and how much music goes into each measure if he knows the song. If he doesn't, he listens to a recording until he does, then looks at the tab. That's folk music.

There's an even simpler way of notating songs than tab (below). These are the chords and lyrics to Elizabeth Cotton's Babe It Ain't No Lie, which I learned listening to the Dead, and which our band covered. If you listen along, you'll note that each verse is played a little differently - same chords, but picked according to whim - and also, you'll see how the lyrics in folk songs evolve. These are not the exact same words I'm singing. I guess I heard them wrong, but that's how it goes when one takes the music from a recording instead of paper, which just wasn't available when I was figuring these songs out.

If you're interested, try to follow the chord changes while looking at the chord names and pattern. This was a live performance, and my wife is signing harmony in the choruses. It begins with an instrumental verse. The only improvisation here comes in the final instrumental verse, and also a few passing chords I added:

Intro:
C F C F G C C F C F G C

G C E E7 F F C D C G C

C F
Been all around this whole round world
C F G C
And I just got back - today
C F
Work all the week, honey I’d give all to you
C F G C
Honey, babe, what more can I do?

G C
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
E E7 F
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
F C
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
D C G C
You know this life I’m livin’ is mighty fine

C F C F G C C F C F G C

G C E E7 F F C D C G C

C F
One old woman, Lord, in this town
C F G C
Keep-a tellin’ her lies on me
C F
Wish to my soul that old woman would die
C F G C (walk down C to G)
Keep-a tellin’ her lies on me

G C
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
E E7 F
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
F C
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
D C G C
You know this life I’m livin’ is mighty fine

C F C F G C C F C F G C

G C E E7 F F C D C G C

Anecdote: When I was a young guitarist, I sat down with my sister-in-law, who was a classically trained pianist, to play together. I suggested a 12-bar blues in A (the key), which defines the chords and their progression: A-A-A-A D-D-A-A E-D-A-E. She had no idea what I was talking about. She didn't think in those terms at all. She didn't know what an A chord was, but if she saw a treble clef with three sharps (key of A major) and quarter notes stacked on one another in the top three spaces, she could play that, but didn't know to call it an A major chord. We didn't get very far. That was my first realization of how different our musical worlds were.

 

[dybmh]

Followed by many more responses. At this point I feel it is an unnecessary distraction to the forum and a waste of both of our time. Let's take a break and maybe, if I decide to continue posting on forums, as I've recently thought to retire from it, we can continue with a reasonable and mutually respectful dialogue.

Agreed. I split the posts because so many see an overly long post and just assume it's a rant.

I'm here if you choose to return. Otherwise I wish you only good things and great success in all you put your mind to. God bless.

 

[dybmh]

If you don't mind, how about a lengthy digression on folk music versus classical, since you seem to be a fan of some of the same music I like?

Well. You have my attention

 

[dybmh]

This was a live performance,

So, the point you were making is the value of improvising?

But you don't see a problem with improvisation when the task at hand is translation of ancient texts?

What if I were to translate Ripple ( my fav GD song ) into Hebrew but instead of being faithful to the, forgive me, spirit of the artist, I improvised and rewrote it such that it was flowing like an avalanche?

What if we step away from music and bring it a little closer to the subject matter here? What if Darwin's books, or Aristotle's books are translated improvisationally by an uneducated individual who doesn't read or understand the language or cultural context of Darwin or Aristotle? Does that make sense? Is improvisation a good method here? In this case?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

the point you were making is the value of improvising?

Not really, although I do find value in musical improvisation. My point was to illustrate the difference between folk music and musicians, and their classically trained counterparts.

you don't see a problem with improvisation when the task at hand is translation of ancient texts?

It depends on what one's purpose is. The OP seems to be more interested in creating something new than in a faithful representation of scripture, which makes it at least in part art.

What if I were to translate Ripple ( my fav GD song ) into Hebrew but instead of being faithful to the, forgive me, spirit of the artist, I improvised and rewrote it such that it was flowing like an avalanche?

I don't understand the avalanche reference, but OK. What you described doing is art, too.

How did my translator do here? Is this close to the original?

What if we step away from music and bring it a little closer to the subject matter here? What if Darwin's books, or Aristotle's books are translated improvisationally by an uneducated individual who doesn't read or understand the language or cultural context of Darwin or Aristotle? Does that make sense? Is improvisation a good method here? In this case?

Again, it depends on one's purpose. If one is trying to be faithful to the original, then no to improvisation.

How about a cover of Ripple ("If I knew the way, I would take you home"):

Spoiler

But that's not a song with much improvisation, either. For that try this, especially the end:

 

[dybmh]

It depends on what one's purpose is. The OP seems to be more interested in creating something new than in a faithful representation of scripture, which makes it at least in part art.

I think you're wrong about this part. Scriptural fidelity is the ideal for this individual. But they can correct me if I'm wrong.

Question: If someone claims to be translating, isn't it implied that they are intending to produce a faithful representation?

How did my translator do here?

I wouldn't use דבר, I would use אמר. It's softer. Also, the middle consonant is connected to flowing water. And the over arching message of the stanza is precisely the 3rd def below. Conjugated I think it would be better as Om'rim sheli: "sayings" in a construct state.

Klein Dictionary, אמר ᴵ 1

אמר ᴵ to say. — Qal - אָמַר 1 he said, told, uttered; 2 he commanded, ordered; 3 he said in his heart, thought. — Niph. - נֶאֱמַר it...

www.sefaria.org

 

[I Am Hugh]

It's an interesting endeavor, but why call it a skeptic's Bible? It's still full of unfalsifiable claims that skeptics reject.

I don't try to convince skeptics of something they don't believe, I offer them a possible alternative to the pagan influenced tradition so that they can make a possibly more informed, or at least alternate decision to accept or reject. Each outcome to me is equally desired so long as they have the data to make the right decision for them. Of course, virtually no skeptic will do that because like, I think Abraham Lincoln said, you can get people to believe anything but you can't get them to change their mind once they believe.

Traditional Jewish thinking was corrupted by pagan (outside of) beliefs, especially after Alexander the Great's conquest in 332 BCE. Christianity suffered the same with the influence of Constantine the Great in 325 CE. The immortal soul from Socrates, the trinity from Plato, hell from Dante and Milton, the cross from Constantine, the rapture from Darby, Easter from Astarte (Ishtar) and Christmas from Saturnalia. those teachings and practices came from much earlier teachings. From Sumer, especially Babylon, originally from the scattering of people at the tower of Babel, even roughly 500 years before Moses completed writing Genesis in 1513 BCE. They took stories of the flood, giants, God, and gods that existed prior to even that, and they found their way eventually to Socrates, etc. The cross, for example, was a fertility symbol of Nimrod (Tammuz) long before the Romans or Christ. Christ didn't die on the Roman cross as we know it. The Bible doesn't teach God created the heavens and earth in six literal days, 144 hours, doesn't teach we all go to heaven. The meek will inherit what?

Spoiler: off topic musical digression

Most folk musicians can't.

I don't know about most, but many. Perhaps most. In Crossroads, a film you've probably seen, the protagonist is a young classically trained guitarist who is obsessed with the blues, specifically Robert Johnson's "lost song." His music instructor says "Excellence in primitive music is cultural. You have to be born into it." A lot of folk and popular (pop, rock, folk, etc.) musicians weren't formerly trained but taught themselves or were taught by others. They picked it up from others. Some of them can read and write, compose, arrange, produce. But they still have no formal classical training. A lot of people would rather listen to Mick Jagger than Luciano Pavarotti. Others Steve Perry more than Bob Dylan. It isn't always about technical skill. The Stones, as opposed to Steve Vai. Clapton was more technically more proficient than Ron Wood but Wood was the better guitarist for the Stones. Although Mick Taylor was pretty good, as well.

If you don't mind, how about a lengthy digression on folk music versus classical, since you seem to be a fan of some of the same music I like?

A pedantic aside, I don't like the word fan (fanatic) but I'm an admirer. Casual at that, not as musically uh - what? knowledgeable as you are. I'm straight up rock 'n roll attitude. Not that you can't be both, I'm just not, so your digression below is over my head.

Broadly speaking, we can divide musicians into formally trained musicians who play from standard notation as with a string quartet or symphony musician, and the rest, who can be called folk musicians. I'm one of the latter. I learned how to read standard notation, but it's not how I notated songs when I was figuring them out from recordings, and not what the song sheets that I gave other musicians in the band to play from.

Yeah, see, that wouldn't happen in the bands I've played with back in my headier days. We would never pass sheet music. We would pass other things. But your quote above is sort of what I was saying earlier in the spoiler. I think most musicians would agree.

Folk musicians include rock, blues, country, bluegrass, and more.

Plus, formal musicians don't generally improvise. A trained pianist plays only the chords and melodies as written, whereas the Grateful Dead's keyboardist wasn't looking at anything written and played every version of any given song at least slightly differently.

Exactly.

But yes, Hendrix was one of a kind. His music still sounds fresh and modern today. Nobody needs to re-record All Along The Watchtower (a Dylan song) although many have, including one of my favorite bands, The Grateful Dead, but not as well in my opinion. "Let us not talk falsely now. The hour is getting late."

I just never could relate to Hendrix or the Dead. To each his own.

Have you ever seen tablature, or just tab? On the top is standard notation. It's for any instrument that can play chords (on the left) or a melody (on the right), but the bottom notation is only for guitar. Standard notation is on five lined staffs where lines and spaces stand for notes modified by the sharps and flats in the key signature, but the tab is on a six-lined "staff" which represent the six strings of a guitar, and tells you which fret to put a finger on. Standard notation also provides a time signature, and the notes indicate how much of a measure they should occupy.

Like I said, I read both, both never use the standard for anything. The design on the left tells you that this is a treble clef, and that the lines stand for EGBDF, or every good boy deserves favor as many have learned it. The two sharp signs tell us that F's (the top line of the staff) and C's (the second space) are all sharped, and that this music is in the key of D major, which diatonic scale (do-re-mi) goes D-E-F#-G-A-B-C#-D.

The C means common time, or 4/4 time (ONE-two-three-four, ONE-two-three-four), tells us that each measure has four beats, and that a quarter note is worth one unit of a beat.

View attachment 94867

But the guitarist doesn't need any of that except to know where to put his fingers on the neck and how much music goes into each measure if he knows the song. If he doesn't, he listens to a recording until he does, then looks at the tab. That's folk music.

There's an even simpler way of notating songs than tab (below). These are the chords and lyrics to Elizabeth Cotton's Babe It Ain't No Lie, which I learned listening to the Dead, and which our band covered. If you listen along, you'll note that each verse is played a little differently - same chords, but picked according to whim - and also, you'll see how the lyrics in folk songs evolve. These are not the exact same words I'm singing. I guess I heard them wrong, but that's how it goes when one takes the music from a recording instead of paper, which just wasn't available when I was figuring these songs out.

If you're interested, try to follow the chord changes while looking at the chord names and pattern. This was a live performance, and my wife is signing harmony in the choruses. It begins with an instrumental verse. The only improvisation here comes in the final instrumental verse, and also a few passing chords I added:

Intro:
C F C F G C C F C F G C

G C E E7 F F C D C G C

C F
Been all around this whole round world
C F G C
And I just got back - today
C F
Work all the week, honey I’d give all to you
C F G C
Honey, babe, what more can I do?

G C
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
E E7 F
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
F C
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
D C G C
You know this life I’m livin’ is mighty fine

C F C F G C C F C F G C

G C E E7 F F C D C G C

C F
One old woman, Lord, in this town
C F G C
Keep-a tellin’ her lies on me
C F
Wish to my soul that old woman would die
C F G C (walk down C to G)
Keep-a tellin’ her lies on me

G C
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
E E7 F
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
F C
Oh, babe, it ain’t no lie
D C G C
You know this life I’m livin’ is mighty fine

C F C F G C C F C F G C

G C E E7 F F C D C G C

Very nice. I enjoyed that. Like the video too. It reminds me of one of my favorites, Dylan. Never heard the song.

Oh, and you did a Mobile cover by Dylan as well. I like the vocals in that, and the video as well. Something about the music, though, or maybe production. The overall timing seems - I don't know, like I said, I'm not as knowledgeable - rushed. Especially in the chorus. But then again, I often have the same criticism with Dylan's own live performances as well. The same sort of, I don't know. Disjointedness? The guitar solo was awesome as well. Is the drumming on that track live? It sounds sort of mechanical and polished.

I didn't like Blonde on Blonde or the electric Dylan period of his as much as other stuff. I like all of Dylan, but prefer the latter stuff. Blood on the Tracks, and even Infidels, even later stuff better. Under a Blood Red Sky, with its lyrics from fables. Oh, Mercy. But I did really like the Hard Rain version. In fact, all of the songs on that album I liked more than the originals. Usually, though, I prefer studio over live. Dylan and the Dead live album I could hardly bring myself to listen to. It's interesting that I like your versions of the Dead. I see that's a playlist. I just clicked on it and let it go as I respond here. A lot of good songs on that list. I always liked CSN's version of Dear Mr Fantasy, Dire Straits, U2, Allman Bros. Clapton, Fleetwood Mac, Warren Zevon, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin.

Listen, have you ever covered Big Head Todd and the Monsters?

Anecdote: When I was a young guitarist, I sat down with my sister-in-law, who was a classically trained pianist, to play together. I suggested a 12-bar blues in A (the key), which defines the chords and their progression: A-A-A-A D-D-A-A E-D-A-E. She had no idea what I was talking about. She didn't think in those terms at all. She didn't know what an A chord was, but if she saw a treble clef with three sharps (key of A major) and quarter notes stacked on one another in the top three spaces, she could play that, but didn't know to call it an A major chord. We didn't get very far. That was my first realization of how different our musical worlds were.

Interesting. Could she just jam? Improvise?

I always thought it interesting when guitarists look at other guitarists playing, either to see how different they play the same song or how to copy them and play a song they don't know.

 

[dybmh]

Traditional Jewish thinking was corrupted by pagan

No sir. You don't know enough about us. You're judging based on rumors. And attacking the competition is a sales tactic when selling snake-oil.

You don't know ultra-orthodox Jews. That's MY community. Where you, sir, are always welcome. And your ideas are ALWAYS welcome. You always have a seat at the table with us.

so long as they have the data

Sir. You are lacking boat-loads of data regarding traditional Jews. Please stop talking about us. I thought we agreed to stop. But I cannot allow the slurs to go unanswered. It's not fair.

You're not wrong, but you're making an unqualified assertion which is too grand in scope.

Reform Judaism ( and the last scraps of what is known as Conservative Judaism ) are certainly corrupted by pagan ideas. We, Jews who practice Judaism, call them "captives" of the other nations.

Orthodox Judaism is not corrupted by pagan philosophy, they are corrupted in the exact opposite manner. They are corrupted by the over-compensation to avoid Christianity and deny that it has any merit. They end up denying the written word as well, and will do back-flips to deny that God shares any human qualities at all. This not only violates scripture, but it also denies Jewish Monotheism, because, the Orthodox Rationalist cannot make their case without saying: "God can't be kind. God can't be fatherly. God can't this. God can't that."

We, ultra-orthodox, have our own problems. However, If you want to know, what the text says, and means? The ones to talk to are, us, the ultra-orthodox. God-fearing. Righteous. Unapologetic. And honest about our scripture. It says what it says.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It isn't always about technical skill.

Agreed, especially with vocalists. Johnny Cash is usually flat, but who doesn't love his voice? Frank Sinatra also had an imperfect voice, but same comment. Or Janis Joplin, or Tom Waits.

that wouldn't happen in the bands I've played with back in my headier days. We would never pass sheet music.

What did you play in your band(s)?

All of our songs were hand written on a single page. I had a Xerox machine at home and would make copies for the other band members. I also made cassette tapes of the songs, since I was the only one who knew them all, and our rhythm guitarist didn't know much Grateful Dead at first. We performed sitting down with a notebook full of about 300 songs - too many to remember - and a music stand, which you can see at the bottom of this photo. You can also see my wife's notebook a little. That night, it was just the two of us (and a digital drummer as usual):

Very nice. I enjoyed that

Thank you.

and you did Mobile cover by Dylan as well. I like the vocals in that, and the video as well.

Thanks again. That was a night that we played without a second guitar. And a typical Dylan ballad structured like so many others (Desolation Row, Visions Of Johanna, and Forever Young from our song list)

Ruthie: “Your debutante knows what you need, but I know what you want.”

Something about the music, though, or maybe production.

Our sound engineering left a lot to be desired. I was the only one involved, and I couldn't look at monitor levels while playing, so some recordings are overdriven and others mixed improperly.

have you ever covered Big Head Todd and the Monsters?

No, but that was a fine song that we would have been happy to have covered.

Could she just jam? Improvise?

Nope. She didn't know what jam meant nor how to improvise.

 

[GoodAttention]

[Sigh] Really? You can't piece it together?

I'm not sure you have the patience or a sufficient grasp of the English language to be authoring a "Modern Skeptics Bible".

What did I say he was? A highly intelligent extraterrestrial being.

How did you interpret that? Alien.

Yes, that is how a modern skeptic would interpret those words.

What is highly intelligent? The possession of knowledge and skills to a high degree or level.

A monkey is highly intelligent.

What is extraterrestrial? Of or from outside the earth or its atmosphere.

Well done, however Earth should be capitalized.

The original Hebrew word was Elohim, always translated, as it should be, God.

Elohim? Why are you bringing up Elohim?

I'm reading your "accurate translation" aren't I?

What is Elohim? it means God/gods. It's plural, sometimes signifying gods and sometimes a single god or God, being a plural of majesty. For example, it is used at 1 Samuel 5:7 for Dagon, at 1 Kings 11:5 for the goddess Ashtoreth, and at Daniel 1:2 for Marduk, at Psalms 82:1, 6 for the human judges of Israel, quoted by Jesus in application of himself using the Greek word theos at John 10:34, 35, for Moses at Exodus 4:16; 7:1, and the angels at Psalm 8:5. Elohim is a variation of the Hebrew word El, God, literally meaning mighty. Those words preceded by the definite article ha means the God, much like the Arab word Allah (al=the lah=god) and the Hebrew word satan, means adversary, and is applied first to the righteous angel of God at Numbers 22:22 without the definite article, in application to humans at 1 Samuel 29:4; 2 Samuel 19:21, 22; 1 Kings 5:4; 11:14, 23, 25. When it appears with the definite article ha it applies specifically to Satan. The satan, the adversary.

So to understand your accurate translation I have to read the original scriptures anyway..

What is God? According to Oxford's Dictionary:
1. In Christianity and other monotheistic religions, the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2. In certain other religions, a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity; an image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god; used as a conventional personification of fate.
3. An adored, admired, or influential person; a thing accorded the supreme importance appropriate to a god.
4. Informal: the gallery in a theater.

AND I need to purchase a dictionary...great. I hope you include these as a 3 for 1 Amazon bundle with your MSB.

The English word God was used by the pagans before the Christian missionaries reached the English-speaking people. That word means to poor/libate. English is a Germanic language, the Proto-Germanic words from which the Old English word God comes was a pagan word when the Christian missionaries came from Rome to England somewhere in the 6th and 7th century. Because those Proto-Germanic words were used in religious pagan language to poor, libate, invoke, sacrifice, high, heaven, etc. Things they did in association with the mighty/venerated. Gods. So, that was a suitable word in English for the Latin word deus the Roman Christian missionaries probably used meaning the same thing.

A god is anything or anyone venerated as mightier than the person doing the veneration and so attributing might.

You either object to the removal of the word that appears there, Hebrew Elohim, English God or you object to the removal of your personal God concept.

The atheists, and the skeptics are put off by the word God, because to them they see it as all sorts of ugliness, usually perpetrated by believers or having to do with any gods or the god concept in general which they see as fantasy, delusion, even though a god can be someone or anything, the believer and unbeliever alike associate the word with a concept they either believe or not.

A skeptic is not an atheist. You need to go back to the drawing board.

It's misleading because of preconceived biases of both believer and unbeliever.

That's why I used a description instead of the word. Saying God created the heavens and earth is true, but it's like describing a friend as a man or woman instead of describing who or what they are aside from that. In the case of the unbeliever, it's like describing someone as a man to another person who hates men. I wanted to try and remove the possible preconceived biases because I read this post.

I posited a possibility knowing it would probably fail because nothing really matters when preconceived biases are involved. All the facts in the world won't change things with those involved. With believers and unbelievers if they use only preconceived biases.

You have been given a lot of feedback about your first attempt.

Don't be disheartened, see the value in what people are saying and try again.

If you can crack the word God without using God you deserve a Nobel in literature.

 

[I Am Hugh]

No sir. You don't know enough about us. You're judging based on rumors.

When I close my eyes and contemplate it, I see translucent profiles of the space time continuum unfolding into small squares projected from a circle in an apparent random path before my mind's eye like leaves and feathers floating before me. It begins from where I stand and ascends from a geometric and anatomic pyramidal bundle.

Where does it begin, or does it end? With a family of shadow figures trudging through the smoky ruins of time in a long stream from a garden and culminating in a stranger's message notifying me of a reunion? On an old ship from far away landing in a small settlement and growing into a colony, and then divided states at war descending into a great nation looming over all others and finally into broken dreams and delusions?
With the neighbor who was always just one of us until he lost his mind one cold winter day and was taken away, or the nine-year-old girl who loved riding her bike around and around until she rode it into a ditch and was no more, with the man in the beginning of a story who made it all possible, or with Avraham Avinu into a new land, with Siddhartha Gotama looking for the middle way, with Kong Qui traveling the country side in his ox cart, with Li Erh looking for the Way out of the Warring States, with Jesus exercising patience with his disciples, or with Vernon Wayne Howell going down in a blaze of glory surrounded by his children?

Most people divide these two-dimensional images into, like taking a card from a shuffled deck. I see the deck shuffled in slow motion before my eyes undivided.

 

[I Am Hugh]

And attacking the competition is a sales tactic when selling snake-oil.

Devil Bill and the Rattlesnake King
"Devil Bill" was a lumberman turned traveling salesman whose family had migrated to America from Neuwied, Germany in 1723. He billed himself as Dr. Bill Livingston, Celebrated Cancer Specialist. He wasn't a doctor; his name wasn't Livingston and he wasn't a cancer specialist. Nevertheless, as a "botanic physician" he traveled the towns of New England selling elixirs, like his "Rock Oil" tonic which consisted of laxative and petroleum. His traveling show provided him with the opportunity to search the lay of the land for farmers he could loan money to, preferring those who weren't likely to pay the loan back so that he could foreclose on their farm and take possession of it. He was a snake oil salesman.

The term snake oil probably came from Chinese railroad laborers during the construction of the first transcontinental railroad. From long ago traditional Chinese medicine had used the oil of Chinese water snakes to treat fever, joint pain and headaches. However, it was a cowboy from Texas known as Clark Stanley who popularized the term when he performed at the 1893 World's Fair in Chicago.

Stanley billed himself as The Rattlesnake King; instead of using the Chinese Water snake - whose oil actually had some mild restorative properties from their high concentration of omega-3 acids - he used rattlesnakes, which had no such properties. Stanley was the first to be called a snake oil salesman, a title which would later be applied to Devil Bill, but the business of quackery had already been common for some time before Devil Bill and The Rattlesnake King showed up.

Quackery, (from quack, a medieval term meaning to shout and the Middle Dutch quacsalven, meaning hawker of salve) began to flourish, especially in Britain and the British colonies of North America in the 17th and 18th centuries. Medicine shows in particular, were very popular in America during the 19th century.

Meanwhile, Ol' Devil Bill, who it turns out was remarkably adept at procreating with various feminine subjects, had gotten himself into more than the usual trouble. He and his first wife, Eliza had six children and he had two additional children with his housekeeper and mistress, Nancy Brown. In 1849 Bill was indicted for raping Ann Vanderbeak, who had been employed in his family's household. That's when he had changed his name from William Rockefeller to Dr. Bill Livingston and made a hasty retreat to Canada. While still legally married to Eliza, Bill married Margaret Allen in Norwich, Ontario.

Now Bill wasn't completely reprehensible; he considered it very important to give his sons the proper instruction, so he visited them from time to time. He was proud to say: "I cheat my boys every chance I get. I want to make 'em sharp." He succeeded. His eldest son, John Davison Rockefeller would be, in his own time, the wealthiest man in the world and he would establish the medical business as we know it.


Genesis Of the Oiligarchy
Noah was instructed by Jehovah to use asphalt as an outer cover for the ark. Three ancient Hebrew words are used in the Bible in reference to the substance. Its liquid form, pitch (Hebrew zepheth), its solid state, bitumen (Hebrew chemar) and its usage, tar (Hebrew kopher). (Genesis 6:14) Bitumen and pitch were also used to seal the ark which carried the baby Moses down the river Nile. (Exodus 2:3) The Valley of Siddim, near Sodom and Gomorrah had pits of asphalt. (Genesis 14:10) The Ancient Greek historians Herodotus and Diodorus mention its use for construction of the walls of Babylon and similar pits near Ardericca, and Zacynthus.

The Egyptians and Persians used it to embalm mummies. The Seneca skimmed asphalt from the waters of Western Pennsylvania and dug for oil in pits to use in lamps and healing lotion. In 1848 Chemist James Young started a small business refining crude oil, and in 1856 Ignacy Lukasiewicz built the first oil refinery. Lukasiewicz also discovered how to distill kerosene from seep oil, invented the modern kerosene lamp, introduced the first modern street lamp and constructed the world's first modern oil well.

Whale oil had been used in lamps, soap and margarine but the use of petroleum and vegetable oils began to replace it in the early 20th century, probably saving the whales from possible extinction. Though oil had been used since primitive times, its applications in comparison to modern day were somewhat limited, but more importantly its extraction had been inefficient for the demands of the second industrial revolution. Petroleum would power the second industrial revolution as steam had powered the first.

Edwin Drake would be the man to do that. Drake, originally from New York, had become a railroad worker in Connecticut; first as a clerk and then as an express agent and conductor. Though illness had prevented him from working in 1857, he was able to keep the privileges of a train conductor which included free travel on the railroads.

He was employed by Seneca Oil, a company that had split from the Pennsylvania Rock Oil Company when its shareholders couldn't agree on the practicality of oil as a marketable commodity considering the difficulty extracting it from the ground. The word petroleum comes from the Medieval Latin word meaning rock oil, from the Latin Petra (rock) and oleum (oil). Devil Bill had used the term Rock Oil for his useless tonic which consisted of laxative and petroleum.

The founders of Seneca Oil, George Bissell and Jonathan Eveleth, were staying at the same Titusville hotel as Drake, who was hired by them to investigate the oil seeps on land they owned. The President of the company, James Townsend, gave Drake the title 'Colonel' to impress the locals. The 'Colonel' had cards printed with his newly bestowed title and travel expenses were kept to a minimum due to his status as conductor. He was paid $1000 a year.

He borrowed the drilling technique that was commonly used in salt mines, but it was slow, even with the steam engine that powered the drill. At 16 feet the sides of the hole began to collapse and so he devised a drive pipe with connecting joints every 10 feet which was inserted into the borehole to keep it from collapsing in on the drill. Then they hit bedrock and were drilling only a few feet a day. The drill became known to local hecklers as "Drake's Folly." He ran out of money and had to borrow $500 to keep it going. Just when everyone had given up on him, at 69.5 feet the drill hit a crevice. It was August 27, 1859.

The next thing you know Ol' Ed's a millionaire. Well, not exactly. Though he effectively inspired the immediate oil boom, beginning all along Oil Creek where he had made his discovery, he wasn't much of a businessman. His well was producing 25 barrels a day but he hadn't even patented his drilling invention and had lost all of his money in oil speculation by 1863. By 1872 his well was producing nearly 16,000 barrels a day but he himself was impoverished. He died on November 9, 1880.

Someone was watching the oil boom Edwin Drake had inspired. Someone with a shrewd head for business. That someone was none other than the son of Ol' Devil Bill himself, John D. Rockefeller.

 

[I Am Hugh]

You don't know ultra-orthodox Jews.

Break it down. Pick your card.

That's MY community. Where you, sir, are always welcome. And your ideas are ALWAYS welcome. You always have a seat at the table with us.

Is that kosher? Pearls before swine? In the early days when Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley were forming the rock group KISS, Gene's mother, Florence Klein (1925–2018) was born in Jánd and survived internment in Nazi concentration camps, wouldn't let Paul enter her home. And Paul was Jewish. The word Holocaust means whole burnt offering. (Jeremiah 19:4-5) In Espanol, "en holocaustos al mismo Baal"

On Judaism, Wikipedia says: "(Hebrew: יַהֲדוּת‎, romanized: Yahăḏūṯ) is an Abrahamic monotheistic ethnic religion that comprises the collective spiritual, cultural, and legal traditions of the Jewish people.[8][9][10] Judaism evolved from Yahwism, an ancient Semitic religion of the late Bronze Age to early Iron Age,[11] likely around the 6th/5th century BCE.[12][13] Along with Samaritanism, to which it is closely related, Judaism is one of the two oldest Abrahamic religions."

You aren't suggesting the single card you draw reveals the whole picture?

Sir. You are lacking boat-loads of data regarding traditional Jews. Please stop talking about us. I thought we agreed to stop. But I cannot allow the slurs to go unanswered. It's not fair.

It is fair. It isn't complete. The number 6 represents the incomplete. The number 7 represents complete. Man is incomplete. My vision through the smoky ruins of time is incomplete. The number of man is 666. Adam. The seventh day is God's rest, where man is complete. Israel is man contending with God for completeness. Preservation.

You're not wrong, but you're making an unqualified assertion which is too grand in scope.

I don't think it is too grand in scope. But it is on a larger scale than yours.

Reform Judaism ( and the last scraps of what is known as Conservative Judaism ) are certainly corrupted by pagan ideas. We, Jews who practice Judaism, call them "captives" of the other nations.

You shuffle the deck. Break it down.

Orthodox Judaism is not corrupted by pagan philosophy, they are corrupted in the exact opposite manner.

After Alexander was welcomed into the temple and shown the prophecies of his conquest in the grand scheme of things, the world . . .

Alexander the Great in the Temple of Jerusalem, by Sebastiano Conca: c. 1736 (Daniel 8:5, 7, 20, 21)​

well. let's just make it brief. His impact didn't end there. There was a gymnasium built where the Jewish youth played games. The games were centered around Roman gods. Though apparently, they were all naked, (gymnasium) the games and their gods began influencing them, naturally, ironically, perhaps, in fashion as well - fast forward to the current games in Paris. See, I'm not talking about that one card you grasp in your hand. Beyond reform, orthodox, etc.

 

[I Am Hugh]

Agreed, especially with vocalists. Johnny Cash is usually flat, but who doesn't love his voice?

Uh, well, me, actually.

Frank Sinatra also had an imperfect voice, but same comment. Or Janis Joplin, or Tom Waits.

Love Sinatra's singing. Joplin is sort of odd. I liked her singing, although I would have liked to have heard her before she blew out her voice. The thing is I don't like almost all of her stuff. I loved the Cheap Thrills album, mostly for the band, especially guitar. Tom Waits. Not really familiar. It seems like The Band song says I like the way he talks but can't stand to hear him sing. But I've only heard a couple songs.

What did you play in your band(s)?

Drums. Wasn't much of a drummer though. I was a much better vocalist, but I don't like to sing in front of people. Then, like Janis, I lost my voice. I can't sing anymore and I really miss it. Of, course I don't play drums anymore either, but I don't miss that at all.

All of our songs were hand written on a single page. I had a Xerox machine at home and would make copies for the other band members. I also made cassette tapes of the songs, since I was the only one who knew them all, and our rhythm guitarist didn't know much Grateful Dead at first. We performed sitting down with a notebook full of about 300 songs - too many to remember - and a music stand, which you can see at the bottom of this photo. You can also see my wife's notebook a little. That night, it was just the two of us (and a digital drummer as usual):

View attachment 94877

Thank you.

Thanks again. That was a night that we played without a second guitar. And a typical Dylan ballad structured like so many others (Desolation Row, Visions Of Johanna, and Forever Young from our song list)

Ruthie: “Your debutante knows what you need, but I know what you want.”

Our sound engineering left a lot to be desired. I was the only one involved, and I couldn't look at monitor levels while playing, so some recordings are overdriven and others mixed improperly.

Well given that you did a really good job. I bought a multi-track recorder. I don't even know anything about it, only that it was better than the one the guys were using and they wanted it, so when I got a new kit, I traded my old one, which was actually only a couple months old. We tried recording stuff but we didn't really know what we were doing, and didn't like it. I know I hated it. I like playing live.

No, but that was a fine song that we would have been happy to have covered.

Nope. She didn't know what jam meant nor how to improvise.

As odd as that seems to me, I guess I'm just the opposite. I wouldn't be able to play like her. It would be, I suspect, much like the recording.