Mohamed's surah 2 back-pedal.

[Link]

It is in Kitabi Iqan.
It is also in the Quran:
"Those who make a distinction between God and His Messenger, those are disbelievers"

You can find exactly QUOTE in the Quran.

Sorry, that's not evidence. Can you show scripture saying what you are saying? I mean your own. I know Quran says the opposite in Surah Haqah.

 

[Link]

Surah Haqah for example refutes the Freemason lodge that interprets Quran in a way that Mohammad (s) is a soothsayer.

The way it refutes and contextualizes it, shows, the Quran is words of God and not Mohammad (s). This is why I Say Nubuwa is not the same as Resalah.

Resalah is Mohammad's (s) words, and they are intertwined by Quran, but Nubuwa is about receiving God's words and channeling to humanity.

Two different roles according to many verses including those in Surah Hajj.

Our Imams (a) became Messengers, but they aren't Anbiya.

 

[stevecanuck]

We do not make any distinction between God and His Messenger.

So, you pray to Mohamed as well as God?

 

[Link]

So, you pray to Mohamed as well as God?

You have shown he is taking the statement too far. Thank you. If we take it literally, we would have to worship Mohammad (S).

 

[Link]

And also, the verse in Quran, shows it's about believing in somethings while disbelieving in somethings, so this does show unity of Quran and Sunnah, and that one can't be taken without the other, and Quranic interpretation needs Sunnah verification and a Sunnah teachings needs to be found somehow in Quran.

But this doesn't mean God's words and Mohammad's (s) words are same level of eloquence, style, and glory. Quran is much higher then the words found in the Sunnah including Mohammad (s), Ali (a), Fatima (a) and the Imams (a) from their offspring.

The Quranic fusion though won't happen without seeking the clarification and explanation of the messages of Ahlulbayt (a). Both are needed, and seeking help from the sword of God and the light of Imam of time, is needed too.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Well, I am a Bahai.
We can pray to Bahaullah.

In Shia Islam, i think they believe they can pray to Muhammad and even Infallible Imams.
You can ask @Link
In Christianity they certainly can pray to Jesus.

 

[Link]

Well, I am a Bahai.
We can pray to Bahaullah.

In Shia Islam, i think they believe theh can pray to Muhammad and even Infallible Imams.
You can ask @Link
In Christianity they certainly can pray to Jesus.

We can talk to them, and ask them for intercession and help, but we can't pray. Pray includes worship by definition. Du'a can be used as in "call" but most of the time in Quran it's used as in prayer which includes worship or is worshiping since worshiping God implies you seek his help and power and sustenance of light and honor through the proper avenue.

Prayer is for God alone.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

In Gospels, it is said, Maggies came to worship Jesus.

In Quran, God asked everyone to bow down to Adam, only Satan didn't.
In Surrah of Joseph, Joseph's father, mother and brothers bowed down to Joseph.

God is invisible and unknowable, and there is no direct way to Him. We are told the best prayer, is to pray to the Manifestation of God (aka Messengers)

 

[Link]

In Gospels, it is said, Maggies came to worship Jesus.

In Quran, God asked everyone to bow down to Adam, only Satan didn't.
In Surrah of Joseph, Joseph's father, mother and brothers bowed down to Joseph.

God is invisible and unknowable, and there is no direct way to Him. We are told the best prayer, is to pray to the Manifestation of God (aka Messengers)

The words is revere or exalt, worship and exalt are often equalized in translations.

Worship is for God alone, no one shares in that exalting rank.

Exalting is for God and chosen ones alone, believers are below that.

Greatness and honor is for God, Exalted chosen ones, and believers alone.

Don't mix the terms.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I think bowing is an act of worship.
In Islamic Prayer, they bow down during Prayer.
It is called Sojdih سجده

It is the same word used for bowing down to Adam, and Joseph.

 

[Link]

I think bowing is an act of worship.
In Islamic Prayer, they bow down during Prayer.
It is called Sojdih سجده

It is the same word used for bowing down to Adam, and Joseph.

Bowing is before sujood, and although we do both to God, bowing is about "atheem" which believers are too, and so it's about seeing the light as great.

The sujood is about recognizing "the highest" which God is the Lord of the highest, and so it's about submission through the highest word of God.

Sujood in Quran is never to God directly, but rather, in doing sujood to the light of God, we do it with knowledge of God's light in the light and that God is far above and is the Lord of the Highest Light.

Places of prostration of Angels, is always a chosen one. The hadiths explain this. And Adam (a) was a means of sujood to God, by doing sujood to him, they were in fact, doing it to God but only worshiping God in reality but through Adam (a).

Bowing is a way for respecting all believers and recognizing God's greatness extends to them, and they are all great. So this way, we remind ourselves that we have to respect believers all as great.

Sujood is about the doors of God, and God is the lord of the highest.

But Worship is for God alone.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes, worship is for God alone, but the best place God's light is manifested is in the person of His Messengers.
The Messengers are like the Lamp, and God is like the light within the Lamp. So, when we worship God, we worship the Light within the Lamp. We don't worship the individuality and physical body of the Messengers, but we worship the God, who manifested within them. It is only for this reason, they bowed to Adam, or Joseph.
Prayer, is not always an act of worship though. It is talking and communicating. It is asking for help and confirmation. But some prayers include worshiping.
When we want to talk to God or worship God, we would have to imagine we are talking to a person. This is not the reality though, because God is not a person as we imagine. He is Not like any of His creatures, and has no similarities to them!!!
So, the best way, is to talk and pray to His messengers as they are actually Persons, reflecting the Will and attributes of God to the world.

 

[Link]

Semantics is half the battle. Praying to other then God is Shirk and lands you to hell.

 

[Link]

There needs to be words unique for God and how we love that being. Worship, Divinity, Godhood, etc, are for him. And talking to others is fine and so is seeking help from a doctor for example, but prayer is a word for God alone, and not anyone else.

The only people who want to mix this up are frankly per Quran people who love who they follow more then God since their intention to follow them is not really out of love of God.

 

[BrightShadow]

Yes, they got it. They got that they were being blamed for something their ancestors did.

They are not blamed directly!
100 years from now if Al Qaeda is still active and someone is talking to them - they would still say "you are responsible for 9/11 - you will never learn! You need to change your wicked ways!'
Even the head of a future Al Qaeda leader can claim - he did 9/11 while he wasn't even born in 2001.
This is not a direct charge or direct claim! Everyone involve would easily understand the context.
In early medieval era - societies were tight-knit. It is hard to comprehend when you are looking at today's world. It is incomparable to today's setting. People belong to different tribes and you could address them in such a manner.
Imagine your great great grandfather's time - his neighbors were all same for generations but now our neighbors don't stay like that for generations. People relocate often these days - so the entire setting is different.
So, why are you still having such a problem with this concept? You are not even consulting original text. You are consulting translated versions.
There is important message there that can actually help you!

 

[stevecanuck]

They are not blamed directly!

Yes. They. Are.

Verse 2:51 could not be more clear - "Then We called Moses for an appointment of forty nights. You began to worship the calf in his absence, doing wrong to yourselves".

100 years from now if Al Qaeda is still active and someone is talking to them - they would still say "you are responsible for 9/11 - you will never learn! You need to change your wicked ways!'
Even the head of a future Al Qaeda leader can claim - he did 9/11 while he wasn't even born in 2001.
This is not a direct charge or direct claim!
Everyone involve would easily understand the context.
In early medieval era - societies were tight-knit. It is hard to comprehend when you are looking at today's world. It is incomparable to today's setting. People belong to different tribes and you could address them in such a manner.
Imagine your great great grandfather's time - his neighbors were all same for generations but now our neighbors don't stay like that for generations. People relocate often these days - so the entire setting is different.
So, why are you still having such a problem with this concept?

When the so-called last prophet of god continually says "You" while listing the sins of their forefathers, he is clearly saying they are just as bad, and guess what - the Jews weren't happy with that.

You are not even consulting original text. You are consulting translated versions.
There is important message there that can actually help you!

The original was translated by fluently bilingual scholars. Yusuf Ali's English is gooder than most people on this forum.

 

[KWED]

Pray includes worship by definition.

No it doesn't. By definition, from the Oxford English Dictionary...

Pray (verb): Address a prayer to God or another deity. Wish or hope strongly for a particular outcome or situation.
Prayer (noun): A solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or another deity.

No mention of "worship".

 

[KWED]

In Gospels, it is said, Maggies came to worship Jesus.

 

[KWED]

God is invisible and unknowable, and there is no direct way to Him.

So how does religion work then?

We are told the best prayer, is to pray to the Manifestation of God (aka Messengers)

If god is "unknowable", then who told you that? (Please don't say "the messengers" )

 

[KWED]

They are not blamed directly!
100 years from now if Al Qaeda is still active and someone is talking to them - they would still say "you are responsible for 9/11 - you will never learn! You need to change your wicked ways!'
Even the head of a future Al Qaeda leader can claim - he did 9/11 while he wasn't even born in 2001.

Poor analogy.
For it to work Allah would need to only be addressing one group of Jews that people had to decide to join, but he isn't. He is addressing all Jews.
By your analogy it would be like blaming all Muslims in the future for 9/11.

You are not even consulting original text. You are consulting translated versions.

There it is again.