seeking4truth
Active Member
Does anyone know where in the Bible the name/word 'Muhammad' is recorded.
I believe it has been translated as 'altogether beautiful'
I believe it has been translated as 'altogether beautiful'
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Mohammad in the Bible
- Thread starter seeking4truth
- Start date
Levite
Higher and Higher
It doesn't appear there at all. There is a word in Song of Songs that sounds similar, mechumad, which some people have apparently decided is somehow the same, despite it being in a different language, with a different linguistic derivation than the name of the man.
seeking4truth
Active Member
What does mechumad mean?
WonderWho
Away
Levite
Higher and Higher
mechumad (adj) or machmadim (pl noun) come from the root ch.m.d., meaning "desire." So mechumad is literally, "desirable," but has the idiomatic meaning of "beloved," or "precious." When used in reference to a person, it's an endearment; it actually renders almost perfectly for the Spanish querido. Machmadim are "precious things," idiomatically "delightful things." It can be applied equally to fruits or delicacies or to jewels or rare items.
seeking4truth
Active Member
or to the most beloved of Allah ie. Muhammad.
Wishful thinking run amok.
Levite
Higher and Higher
That hypothesis flies utterly in the face of not only every element of documentary history, but every reasonable interpretation of both Jewish text and the grammatical construction of the root ch.m.d. in every context it is used.
seeking4truth
Active Member
" but has the idiomatic meaning of "beloved," or "precious." When used in reference to a person, it's an endearment; "
This sounds very like 'beloved' to me and Muhammad was a person.
This sounds very like 'beloved' to me and Muhammad was a person.
Levite
Higher and Higher
However, Muhammad's name is in Arabic, not Hebrew. And he lived somewhere between 800 to 1000 years after Song of Songs was written. And the word in the text, when used in reference to another person is used specifically in reference to another person in the text, and none of those people in the narratives are identified as a non-Jewish man from far in the future.
And, for that matter, he is a figure from a non-Jewish religion, whereas Song of Songs is part of Jewish scripture. That alone should be enough to dismiss the reading as a nonsensical one.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
So is my mum but that doesn't mean she's being reference in the Bible.
I think it was referring to the One Ring to Rule them all, which the creature Gollum referred to as "my preciousssssss". Proof that J. R. R. Tolkien's future Lord of the Rings trilogy was prophesied of in the Bible.
Deuteronomy 18:18, Moses spoke of the prophet to be sent by God who is:
1) From among the Israelite's "brethren", a reference to their Ishmaelite cousins as Ishmael was the other son of Abraham who was explicitly promised to become a "great nation".
2) A prophet like unto Moses. There were hardly any two prophets ,who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad. Both were given comprehensive law code of life, both encountered their enemies and were victors in miraculous ways, both were accepted as prophets/statesmen and both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlooks not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well (e.g. the natural birth, family life and death of Moses and Muhammad but not of Jesus, who was regarded by His followers as the Son of God and not exclusively a messenger of God, as Moses and Muhammad were and as Muslim belief Jesus was).
Deuteronomy 33:1-2 combines references to Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. It speaks of God (i.e. God's revelation) coming from Sinai, rising from Seir (probably the village of Sa'ir near Jerusalem) and shining forth from Paran. According to Genesis 21:21, the wilderness of Paran was the place where Ishmael settled (i.e. Arabia, specifically Mecca).
Indeed the King James version of the Bible mentions the pilgrims passing through the valley of Ba'ca (another name of Mecca) in Psalms 84:4-6
Habakkuk 3:3 speaks of God (God's help) coming from Te'man (an Oasis North of Medina according to J. Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible), and the holy one (coming) from Paran. That holy one who under persecution migrated from Paran (Mecca) to be received enthusiastically in Medina was none but prophet Muhammad.
In Islam, There is a narration that a woman who was a jew and became Muslim, Heard her father and uncle talking about Islam.
Her father said it was the truth so the uncle asked if they should follow it. but he said no.
Only because he came from the Arabs and not the jews
1) From among the Israelite's "brethren", a reference to their Ishmaelite cousins as Ishmael was the other son of Abraham who was explicitly promised to become a "great nation".
2) A prophet like unto Moses. There were hardly any two prophets ,who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad. Both were given comprehensive law code of life, both encountered their enemies and were victors in miraculous ways, both were accepted as prophets/statesmen and both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlooks not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well (e.g. the natural birth, family life and death of Moses and Muhammad but not of Jesus, who was regarded by His followers as the Son of God and not exclusively a messenger of God, as Moses and Muhammad were and as Muslim belief Jesus was).
Deuteronomy 33:1-2 combines references to Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. It speaks of God (i.e. God's revelation) coming from Sinai, rising from Seir (probably the village of Sa'ir near Jerusalem) and shining forth from Paran. According to Genesis 21:21, the wilderness of Paran was the place where Ishmael settled (i.e. Arabia, specifically Mecca).
Indeed the King James version of the Bible mentions the pilgrims passing through the valley of Ba'ca (another name of Mecca) in Psalms 84:4-6
Habakkuk 3:3 speaks of God (God's help) coming from Te'man (an Oasis North of Medina according to J. Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible), and the holy one (coming) from Paran. That holy one who under persecution migrated from Paran (Mecca) to be received enthusiastically in Medina was none but prophet Muhammad.
In Islam, There is a narration that a woman who was a jew and became Muslim, Heard her father and uncle talking about Islam.
Her father said it was the truth so the uncle asked if they should follow it. but he said no.
Only because he came from the Arabs and not the jews
Tumah
Veteran Member
So what you are saying here, is that you don't believe that the Bible got distorted or corrupted and that is why you are happy to refer to verses in it that seem to point to your religion. Is that correct?
Not all of it is corrupted.
I don't need the bible to believe in Allah, but I will show you verses in it to point to my religion because people on this thread believe in it.
And if that is all you have to say then I suppose I'm right about the verses?
Tumah
Veteran Member
Well I first wanted to establish that you only believe the verses that seem to substantiate your religion aren't corrupted. That's rather self-serving don't you think?
But here you go:
If anything, I would say that the verse specifically is coming to exclude Ishmael. It doesn't say "Israel's brother". The verse is written in plural "from your/their brothers among you/them (plural). In other words not an individual's brother, but a brother of the entire nation.
Your explanation doesn't even make sense since Ishmael was Isaac's brother, not Jacobs. And his descendants are Israel's cousins not brothers.
Anyway, the meaning of the verse is pretty clear: G-d will raise an Israelite prophet from among Israel just like Moses was. And in fact He did. Multiple times.
And in context with verse 20, it is clear that verse 18 wasn't speaking about one specific prophet, but in general. G-d will raise up prophets in every generation - make sure you only listen to the ones speaking in His name.
Analogies between anyone and Moses are pointless as they tend to cherry pick the similarities and exclude the differences. Also, as I said before, the verse doesn't mean that the next prophet would be exactly like Moses. It means that just like Moses was raised from among Israel, so would other prophets.
Everything in this paragraph you made up.
Seir is Esau's place (Gen. 33:16). Paran is Ishmael's (Gen. 21:21). Since this verse is in the past tense, linking it with Jesus or Muhammad is clearly not what the verse intends.
Associating Paran with Mecca is pure conjecture.
The KJV doesn't know everything. The word "BaKHa" or "בכא" is related to the root of "נבכי ים" mentioned in Job 38:16, meaning a spring. Which makes sense in context. Another possibility is the valley was populated with a type of tree called "בכא" as found in 2 Samuel 5:23. Both of those possibilities are quite a bit more plausible.
It doesn't say G-d's help. You have to stick that in, to make it say what you want it to say. But it actually says "Elo-ha". Which I believe is directly translated in Arabic as "All-ah."
In Judaism there is a story about a man who was Muslim and became a Jew. He heard his wife's uncle talking to his mother's father about Judaism. His mother's father said it was the truth so the wife's uncle asked if they should follow it. But he said no, only because he came from Jews and not Arabs.
The moral of the story is: anyone can make up a story.
arcanum
Active Member
I'll give the Muslims credit for creative interpretation and stretching and doctoring the scriptures to suit their purposes. Of course I'll be the first to admit Christians have done this from it's beginnings as well.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I'll give the Muslims credit for creative interpretation and stretching and doctoring the scriptures to suit their purposes. Of course I'll be the first to admit Christians have done this from it's beginnings as well.
I once saw a video on youtube where one of the arguments a Muslim was making for the divinity of Islam was by pointing out that the lines on the palm of the right hand look like the Arabic numerals 18 which is the numerical equivalent of the Hebrew word Chai (Life).
jtartar
Well-Known Member
seeking4truth,
Muhammad, the one who began the Islam, or Muslim religion is not mentioned in the Bible. The reason for this is; Muhammad did not come on the scene until 632AD, which was 500 and some years after the Bible was completed.