Mormon Church refuses to bless children of Same-Sex Couples.

[SkepticThinker]

logic and reason is always frustrating to those who fail to employ it.

Love the condescension in your posts.

 

[leibowde84]

Race does exist, but the cultural concept of race is incorrect, usually making both sides in arguments about it wrong. For example, it has more to do with bone structure rather than skin color and such. Skin color has very little to do with which race you are.

Whether "race" is a man-made conceptual creation without grounding in evidence is not relevant here. It still certainly exists in the minds of most people. And, because of this, it must be dealt with.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Whether "race" is a man-made conceptual creation without grounding in evidence is not relevant here. It still certainly exists in the minds of most people. And, because of this, it must be dealt with.

Um, I was just trying to inject some sanity into the issue. Pretty much everyone was wrong about it in this thread. Lmao. It does need to be dealt with, but with facts and logic.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Some sins are more obvious

Some sins are just hated more by the human beings who practice religions.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Like forcing your children to eat their greens when they want sweets. Fine.

Is that the same as forcing a religion on a child with fear and threats? Not really.

 

[leibowde84]

Some sins are more obvious

Define "obvious".

 

[SkepticThinker]

So what indoctrination should you give to children then? If you say none, does that mean no schooling then?

Um, for starters you could teach them about various things and just leave the threats and force out of it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You can only speak the truth as you see it though, can't you. It might still be a lie ultimately.

I was talking about the truth in the fact that I will teach my children according to what I described in that post. That's not the "truth as I see it." It is simply the truth.

 

[leibowde84]

I think most of the problem is that you have guns in the first place.

And anything can be 'race.'

Where do you get the crazy idea that someone's religious beliefs can be "race"? Is it simply because people use the term incorrectly? Because, it doesn't take more than a 1 minute search on Google to find out that race certainly doesn't apply to aspects of a person they voluntarily choose.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

ho·mo·pho·bic [hmə fṓbik]
having irrational hatred of homosexuality......"

If you're unhappy with "homophobic" then just say "bigoted", which is probably more accurate.

What you seem to be missing is that bigotry of any sort hurts people. I assume Christianity isn't about hurting people?

 

[leibowde84]

Never said the first part.
And the last sentence agrees with me. So what are you arguing about?

He is not agreeing with you. Race doesn't apply to aspects of a person that are chosen at will, like beliefs or religious adherence. It isn't limited to skin-color, but it is limited very specifically. That is undeniable. It has been hijacked by religious people in the US to aid in their complaining, but that is a fraudulent practice and despicable too.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And how (assuming she is young) would she do that? And how would you not allow your own beliefs to influence your child? And considering you should only be asking then to believe and be good to people, is that really such bad advice to give children?

Encourage her to ask questions. Encourage her to think about the things she is told. Never fall back on the "because I told you to" excuse when she questions why I ask her to do things. Stuff like that. It's not that difficult.

I would tell her what I believe and what others believe and let her decide for herself, when she's gathered enough information to do so. There are people in our family from various religious backgrounds and cultures that she would be exposed to as well.

I wouldn't ask her to believe anything, mainly because I don't think we actually choose to believe things - we are either convinced by the evidence, or we are not. So I would teach her to be a good person but I wouldn't ask or force her to believe in god(s) or anything else. I don't think belief can be forced.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The first part of Encarta dictionary says:
"ho·mo·pho·bic

ho·mo·pho·bic [hmə fṓbik]
adj
having irrational hatred of homosexuality......"

How can it be "irrational" first off (considering basic biology), and just because someone does not agree with the ACT does not mean they "hate" it or those who participate. So your comments are not correct.

What does the bolded part mean??

Of course it can be irrational.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I am merely trying to show that everyone has an opinion and makes judgements. Apparently in this modern world, some judgements are not allowed. They are called sxist or racist. What is the difference in one saying I don't like blacks (for example) and being called a racist for it, or one saying I don't like your views on me for my views on black people? There might be just as much venom and just as much name calling involved. So why are we able to use this word for some and not others, when the bottom line is that we are agreeing or not agreeing with a particular view. Using this quick title of race is just to control people whose views we don't like.
Why is it that we can insult some for some views but not if they have black skin? that is invert racism in itslef.

And by the way, it has nothing to do with "muddying" the waters

If you say you don't like blacks, you are judging an entire group of people based solely on the colour of their skin.

If I say I don't like your views on black people, I am judging your idea or belief.

Big difference.

 

[leibowde84]

If you say you don't like blacks, you are judging an entire group of people based solely on the colour of their skin.

If I say I don't like your views on black people, I am judging your idea or belief.

Big difference.

Right on! Beliefs are fair game ... skin color, not so much.

 

[leibowde84]

I am merely trying to show that everyone has an opinion and makes judgements. Apparently in this modern world, some judgements are not allowed. They are called sxist or racist. What is the difference in one saying I don't like blacks (for example) and being called a racist for it, or one saying I don't like your views on me for my views on black people? There might be just as much venom and just as much name calling involved. So why are we able to use this word for some and not others, when the bottom line is that we are agreeing or not agreeing with a particular view. Using this quick title of race is just to control people whose views we don't like.
Why is it that we can insult some for some views but not if they have black skin? that is invert racism in itslef.

And by the way, it has nothing to do with "muddying" the waters

You are welcome to be critical of any belief, no matter what the skin color is of the person holding them. It is ridiculous, otoh, to judge people because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, etc. because those aspects of a person are not chosen.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Why not? Should we treat her differently?

If you have to ask ...

 

[leibowde84]

Let's start again before I lose the will to live:

I am saying any group of things is race. So it is unfair to use that word against a certain group of people only. In itself, that would be racism. That is it.

Would these be racist:

White man hates black man.
Black man hates white man.
Man hates people with curly hair.
Man hates people who sit on the street.
Man hates supporters of another football team.

Is it right that only two of those would be demonized?

"Racism" is only a subcategory of "prejudice". Actions and beliefs are fair game to scrutiny. Skin color is not.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Right on! Beliefs are fair game ... skin color, not so much.

Totally agree!
I should have thrown in the point you made about how a person can't choose their skin colour, but can choose which ideas they want to entertain.

 

[leibowde84]

Why not? Should we treat her differently?

Yes. The decent thing to do is make your text larger if she asks you to. It is just about as easy as it gets, and, unless I'm missing something, wouldn't negatively effect you at all.