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Mormon Church To US Supreme Court: Ban Gay Marriage

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Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
The Contradiction suggesting that you are making it up as you go along
No it's not. The bible is a human invention, written and compiled by humans.
According to the bible (which is Gods word),,
My dismay at your claim.
A member of the Clergy would never speak such blasphemy and sacrilege. The sword contained within the full Armour of God is His word, The Holy Bible, written by men and compiled by God, through His inspiration.
The Denial, or as you put it, the back peddling
I was talking about the the Mormon Church. I have no idea what you're going on about here. Unless it's the bible, in which case I disagree with you
By ignoring this misinformation exposé, you confirm it's validity.
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
As a Libertarian, I feel the government should let the churches decide whether they want to allow gay marriage or not. Marriage is a religious institution not a political government institution. (Some Liberal churches would allow gays to marry, while conservative churches would not, this allows the free market of religion to decide whether liberal or conservative churches grow).
What kind of libertarian makes individual legal rights contingent on finding a church to grant them?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What kind of libertarian makes individual legal rights contingent on finding a church to grant them?
The right to marry is not contingent upon availability & consent of any churches.
We can marry without them.
But if we want a church wedding, we must find one willing to perform the service.
If some object to our situation, this doesn't give us the right to force them.
Churches aren't your regular secular "public accommodation" which is subject to civil rights laws.
They perform a religious function, & shouldn't be forced to perform something which violates their beliefs.
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
There is so much noise on this thread and reactions in opposition to my fundamental idea, but I have not heard any good arguments. Nobody has given me a single persuasive reason on why a mom who loves her child, who has preferences on placement, including religion, should not be entitled to go to a private religious based adoption agency, not tax payer funded, who will meet those preferences.
I've already given you one: nobody is entitled to force a professional to violate their profession's code of ethics, and every professional association of social workers I've been able to find includes a prohibition on discrimination on the basis of religion or sexual orientation, or facilitating this discrimination.

If a prejudiced biological parent wants the adoptive parent of their child to meet some discriminatory set of criteria, they could probably go to a lawyer with a specific person they've chosen and arrange the adoption without forcing the lawyer to violate his or her code of ethics. But just giving a social worker at an adoption agency a laundry list of discriminatory criteria and saying "find me someone like this" would make the professional complicit in the discrimination.

I get that you don't have an ethical problem with this sort of discrimination yourself, but this doesn't change what the relevant codes of ethics say. They declare religious discrimination to be unethical even if you can't see why.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Sorry for taking so long to respond to this. I don’t have much free time.
Thank you, I usually feel a bit weird butting in.
I agree that this is an important issue.
No problem buddy.
Thank you for sharing this.

This issue drags all my emotions into the fray. The joy of raising a child is something I would not want to deny to anyone. However, I do not find homosexuality to be appropriate.

I don’t believe this because of hatred or disgust. I have a significant knowledge of God and His laws and He has told Man that homosexuality is sinful and should be avoided.

The report you shared depressed me somewhat because it reminded me of all the social ills in this world that usually cause children to suffer the most.

Do I want children to be happy? Yes, of course. Do I believe that a same-sex couple can give a child happiness? Yes, of course.

Yet, this issue, like so many others, causes people to look at every component in a vacuum and they refuse to look at it in “totality”.

For example, there are many who make the argument that marriage is about “love” and no one has the right to stop two people that “love each other” from marrying.

Even though “love” is an essential component to marriage, it is not the sole factor. It is only part of a whole. There are many people who may “love each other” that should not under any circumstance get married. I am not speaking of specific people or groups of people, but I’m sure you can think of people in your life that love one another, but should not marry one another.

There are just more factors to consider than “love” when deciding who to marry.

That brings me back to this issue. Do I want children to be happy? Yes, of course, but that is not the only thing I would want for them. I would also want them to be learned in the ways of God and His laws, which condemn homosexuality.

I understand that I have already said a lot, but I am going to share something from the report you shared and also my personal belief. Sorry, but just try to bear with me.

I googled the footnote #20 of the report you shared and came to one of the studies performed in the U.S. which compared children being raised in heterosexual, lesbian and homosexual male families. They found that,

“Findings revealed that the perceived play behaviors of boys and girls in same-gender parent families were more similar (i.e., less gender-stereotyped) than the perceived play behavior of boys and girls in heterosexual-parent families (which were more divergent; that is, gender-stereotyped). Sons of lesbian mothers were less masculine in their play behavior than sons of gay fathers and sons of heterosexual parents.”

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-012-0198-3

I believe that there are absolutes in the universe. I believe that our gender is an eternal characteristic. I believe that the differences in our genders are what lead spouses to eventual perfection. This method is best employed in an “ideal” family. I believe it is possible to achieve this ideal because I believe that God created Men and Women in a particular way to realize it.

I also believe that there is a very real enemy to all Mankind who desires to destroy us in any way he can. He employs different stratagems in different ages of the world. Whatever causes the most confusion, hate and fear.

One of the many subtle plots he weaves today is confusion on the role of a “father” and also on what is a “family”. Of course the Being that rejected His own Father and caused rebellion in his spiritual family would want us to lose any clear teaching about the Patriarchal role and this most fundamental social unit.

He convinces people that “love” should be centered on “sex” and that we are merely creatures of our desires. He promotes sex outside of marriage to increase the likelihood of children to be born to single unwed mothers and grow up without a father. He prods people to justify this selfish behavior by claiming that fatherhood is not a necessity. He does not want people to think that any father is necessary, least of all a Heavenly Father.

This cunning coward manipulates the nations through lust and pride, which have caused the social ills of today. Most, if not all, of the travesties I read in the report you shared could be avoided if the world had no sexual relations outside of marriage and complete fidelity within marriage.

Generations of sexual sin and perversion have led us to today where nothing is set in stone concerning the family unit and we all suffer so much because of it.

Do I want children to be happy? Yes, of course. Can a same-sex couple offer them happiness? Yes, of course. But doing so would promote further confusion about gender, parenting and the family. Right now it may be considered the lesser of two “evils”, but in eternity, it may be spiritually damning.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Thank you for sharing this. I do have some issues with what was said here.

“Gay parents "tend to be more motivated, more committed than heterosexual parents on average, because they chose to be parents," said Abbie Goldberg, a psychologist at Clark University in Massachusetts who researches gay and lesbian parenting. Gays and lesbians rarely become parents by accident, compared with an almost 50 percent accidental pregnancy rate among heterosexuals, Goldberg said. "That translates to greater commitment on average and more involvement."

This would not be an issue if people kept the commandments of God.

The same could be said of any adoptive parents who “chose” to become parents, not necessarily homosexuals.

Stressing the failings among heterosexuals is not a means to promote homosexuality.

“And while research indicates that kids of gay parents show few differences in achievement, mental health, social functioning and other measures, these kids may have the advantage of open-mindedness, tolerance and role models for equitable relationships, according to some research.”

This skews reality and is offensive.

A person believing that there is a God and that He has given specific commandments does not mean that that person is “closed-minded” or “intolerant” or is not a good role model for “equitable relationships”.

“The report didn't compare the adoption preferences of gay couples directly with those of heterosexual couples, said author David Brodzinsky, research director at the Institute and co-editor of "Adoption By Lesbians and Gay Men: A New Dimension of Family Diversity" (Oxford University Press, 2011). But research suggests that gays and lesbians are more likely than heterosexuals to adopt older, special-needs and minority children, he said.”

If the report did not compare adoption preferences, how can he claim that they are “more likely” to do anything?

“"These individuals feel like their perspectives on family, on gender, on sexuality have largely been enhanced by growing up with gay parents," Goldberg said.

One 33-year-old man with a lesbian mother told Goldberg, "I feel I'm a more open, well-rounded person for having been raised in a nontraditional family, and I think those that know me would agree. My mom opened me up to the positive impact of differences in people."”

“In a study published online Jan. 11, 2012, in the Journal of Marriage and Family, Goldberg interviewed another group of 49 teenagers and young adults with gay parents and found that not one of them rejected the right of gays and lesbians to marry. Most cited legal benefits as well as social acceptance.”

Can you see how this would be considered a problem for people who believe in moral absolutes and ideals for gender and family?

An entire generation of people are being taught to disregard God and His laws concerning; sex, marriage and the family and they claim that that is a “positive” thing.
All people parent differently. All people operate differently and react to situations differently. Is there some womanly way to react to situations that’s different from a manly reaction?
Generally, yes. Mothers tend to focus on “taking care” of their children, while fathers tend to focus more on “playing with” children. Mothers tend to be more protective, offering their children activities with less-risk while father tend to foster more independence in their children by allowing them to do more.

These things struck true to me when I was reading them because I see this in my family all the time. My wife and I have even gotten into arguments about these things. I would get upset because I felt that my wife wasn’t playing with my boys enough and she got upset because she felt that I was letting them get away with too much.
If you look into some of the studies I posted above (mainly the top link) they talk about how the children raised in two-parent-same-sex families fare just as well as children raised in two-parent-opposite-sex families. And all of those children fare better than those raised in single parent families.
True, two parents are better than one. Yet, a loving mother and father are the ideal.

The further we steer away from the ideal, the worse our condition will become.
What do you think those differences are?

Too many to reference really.

Just think of the differences between men and women. How they think and act. What they prioritize.

Think of your mother and father and how they handled different situations.

Growing up, my father would tell us so many stories of his childhood and about my aunts, uncles and grandparents. My mother, not so much until recently. She recently wrote a book about her life. You can get it on amazon, it’s called “Paper Dolls”.

They both had stories to tell, but had different methods of telling them.

That was the first thing that popped into my head.

Having my own boys I can see the differences in how my wife and I parent. She is definitely more “service” driven, feeding them and cleaning up after them (they are just babies) and I’m more about quality time, throwing them around and taking them places. I feed and clean and she plays too, but we both enjoy doing the other stuff more. She feels fine feeding them and giving them baths. It relaxes her. It’s like completing a check list for her. That stuff may cause me to pull my hair out. And I’m fine wrestling with them and taking them out to see stuff which tires her out.

The genders are just different and they offer different things. Mothers were intended to teach daughters how to be women and fathers to teach the boys to be men.

Downplaying the differences in gender is not something I will ever be comfortable with.
Maybe you have a point. Let’s rephrase then.

If a loving gay couple show up looking for a child to adopt, the Church would rather withhold the child from that home and wait until a straight couple showed up?
I would assume so, yes. I don’t know everything about the Catholic Church, but temporal welfare and happiness is only a part of what they claim to offer.

They believe that homosexuality is spiritually damning and that it will cause eternal harm to all involved. Especially unsuspecting children who would be taught to accept homosexuality and that it is not sinful.
Gay couples have been raising adopted and biological kids for quite a while now. My female cousin raises her biological daughter with her wife.
I understand this, but the Catholic Church has also been teaching what they teach for a while too.

I feel that so much “tolerance” in our world causes sin to run rampant.
I’m grateful that there are gay and straight people in the world looking to give a home to children who need one.
I agree. Adopting is difficult and can be heart wrenching and I love any and all who attempt to do it.

That does not mean that homosexuality should be considered an acceptable practice.
At least they’re consistent, I guess.
Yeah, we sort of have to give them that, huh?
They may be able to help more children if they’d reconsider that view, especially in light of the studies I linked above. I doubt that will happen though.
The Lord Jesus Christ did not only feed the hungry, heal the sick, offer service and teach “good feeling” parables – but He taught obedience to God’s law and He offered to Mankind the means of obtaining perfection.

There is more to this temporal life than providing children with a temporal home.

To think that if everyone did as Christ asked them, there would be less (if any) children who need homes.
You’d think they’d be happy enough just finding homes for needy children in the first place. Let god sort out the sin stuff.
That has never been a stance that God has taken.

He wants us to be active participants in our salvation.
It’s based on the fact that they’ve got a lot to clean up in their own backyard before they should start trying to dictate morality to anyone else.
This is irrelevant.

They have the right to believe what they would.

The First Amendment does not claim that they are given religious freedom only if they pass someone’s judgment.
No it isn’t. You don’t have the right to dictate what marriage is for a whole country, based on your religious beliefs. The state and federal government recognizes marriage to be between two consenting adults of either the same sex or opposite sex. So whether your religious sensibilities agree with it or not, two people of the same sex that have a marriage licence are married.
Demanding that the Catholic Church or myself to recognize such a “marriage” would be a violation of our First Amendment rights.
Nobody is forcing you to marry someone of the same sex. And nobody is forcing churches to perform ceremonies that they don’t agree with. So how are your rights being violated?
The Charitable Choice provision claims that any faith-based organization that offers government funded services has the right to retain control over the definition and expression of their religious beliefs.

If someone objects to the religious character of the faith-based organization, they are free to seek out a secular alternative.

It violates the Charitable Choice provision, as well as the First Amendment, to claim that the Catholic Church needs to recognize “same-sex marriage” in order to further offer government funded services when there are many secular alternatives available.
First and foremost would be procreation. Creating and nurturing your own offspring is central to God’s plan of happiness for His children.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'm glad you think so. SSD (etc.)'s post suggested a different position.
We can choose to be wed by a Justice Of The Peace, in Las Vegas, at many churches which
do gay (& other) weddings, & even by a friend who gets one of those minister-by-mail certificates.
If it's legal, there'll always be someone willing to do it for a buck or on a lark.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
I've already given you one: nobody is entitled to force a professional to violate their profession's code of ethics, and every professional association of social workers I've been able to find includes a prohibition on discrimination on the basis of religion or sexual orientation, or facilitating this discrimination.

If a prejudiced biological parent wants the adoptive parent of their child to meet some discriminatory set of criteria, they could probably go to a lawyer with a specific person they've chosen and arrange the adoption without forcing the lawyer to violate his or her code of ethics. But just giving a social worker at an adoption agency a laundry list of discriminatory criteria and saying "find me someone like this" would make the professional complicit in the discrimination.

I get that you don't have an ethical problem with this sort of discrimination yourself, but this doesn't change what the relevant codes of ethics say. They declare religious discrimination to be unethical even if you can't see why.
It sounds like you are just trying to make the situation negative.

Why is a woman who wants her unborn child to grow up in a religious home "prejudiced"?

In open adoptions, birth parents get to decide who will adopt their unborn children, are they being "discriminatory" if they choose one couple over another?
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
I've already given you one: nobody is entitled to force a professional to violate their profession's code of ethics, and every professional association of social workers I've been able to find includes a prohibition on discrimination on the basis of religion or sexual orientation, or facilitating this discrimination.

If a prejudiced biological parent wants the adoptive parent of their child to meet some discriminatory set of criteria, they could probably go to a lawyer with a specific person they've chosen and arrange the adoption without forcing the lawyer to violate his or her code of ethics. But just giving a social worker at an adoption agency a laundry list of discriminatory criteria and saying "find me someone like this" would make the professional complicit in the discrimination.

I get that you don't have an ethical problem with this sort of discrimination yourself, but this doesn't change what the relevant codes of ethics say. They declare religious discrimination to be unethical even if you can't see why.

I disagree with any code of ethics that states that it's unethical for a private religious based adoption agency to place children in a home of a particular faith, at the request of the birth parents.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I disagree with any code of ethics that states that it's unethical for a private religious based adoption agency to place children in a home of a particular faith, at the request of the birth parents.
But why? Why do you think it's wrong for a professional organization to say that religious discrimination is unethical?

And if you think that birth parents are *entitled* to have an agency accommodate these sorts of requests, not only do you disagree that this is unethical, you're saying that the professionals involved should be required to comply, even if it violates their own personal ethics.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
But why? Why do you think it's wrong for a professional organization to say that religious discrimination is unethical?

And if you think that birth parents are *entitled* to have an agency accommodate these sorts of requests, not only do you disagree that this is unethical, you're saying that the professionals involved should be required to comply, even if it violates their own personal ethics.
The preference of the birth parents cannot be described as "religious discrimination."

Any agency that offers open adoption services DOES accommodate those sorts of requests.

It is ethical. It is healthy. It is right.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
But why? Why do you think it's wrong for a professional organization to say that religious discrimination is unethical?

And if you think that birth parents are *entitled* to have an agency accommodate these sorts of requests, not only do you disagree that this is unethical, you're saying that the professionals involved should be required to comply, even if it violates their own personal ethics.

I have no idea why I'm failing to communicate. What you just said is not at all what I believe.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
It may well be to you, however, it would be a boring place if we all agreed with each other

Indeed! :D

If what you have said is true then i have to accept it, yes.

My scriptures clearly state that Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. That is hard not to interpret as sexual sin between two men, who must be sexually orientated to homosexuality in order to be doing it..

However as shown there is no "as with a " woman - in the sentences, and they are in texts saying not to give your seed/semen in copulation to Molech. Sacred Sex=Idolatry.

The bible is not intended to be a factual record. It is a book of commandments intended to spiritually save souls. This is a commandment, a principle that we should ALL maintain. It is not intended to be a record of the past.

And it has been mistranslated over-and-over.

Also if that is the point - a commandment/principle that we should all maintain! Then why are people wrongly going after homosexuals, - rather than teaching - don't take up Sacred Sex in Idolatry to another God?


Ingledsva said:
They were dedicated or sold to the Temples, - and TRAINED to perform Sacred Sex acts, thus no homosexual orientation.

That maybe historically true, however, that is not the purpose of the Bible, for the majority of those who read it. It's purpose is to guide and direct the children of God into paths of righteousness that lead to life eternal in the presence of our God. Your concept of the Bible is factual events and practices of the past, whereas mine is spiritual guidance.

Since the Bible actually says nothing about homosexuals, - but repeatedly warns against the IDOLATRY of Sex with the Sacred Prostitutes in worship of other Gods. I would assume that is what they wanted to teach, and thus should be being taught.

*
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
You said that the birth parent should be entitled. If the agency has the right to say "no", there is no entitlement.

Let me try other words...

Churches should have the right to provide adoption services that favor child placement in homes of their faith. Birth parents should have the right to use such agencies so that their children are placed in homes of their faith. Any laws or professional codes of conduct that prevent this from happening are not good and should be changed. I have heard no compelling argument against this position.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Let me try other words...

Churches should have the right to provide adoption services that favor child placement in homes of their faith. Birth parents should have the right to use such agencies so that their children are placed in homes of their faith. Any laws or professional codes of conduct that prevent this from happening are not good and should be changed. I have heard no compelling argument against this position.

If an adoption agency wants the ability to choose the birth parents by faith or race or whatever the hell, then it should not accept money from the Government at all. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either work separately from the Government allowing you to not have to follow the laws of the land, or shut the hell up and act like adults. Follow the rules like everyone else has to instead of whining like a spoilt brat because the social contract and the law which applies to everyone equally says you have to treat everyone the same. Which I think encompasses Jesus' teachings far better than hiding behind Him in order to justify outdated and disgusting practices such as discrimination based on nothing but prejudice. I mean this is not like we are talking about people who are or have been locked up in prison or people posing actual threats to children. These are parents who have to go through a screening process to ensure their home is suitable. Now you want to throw extra hoops in front of that process? Fine. But Tax payers should not have to pay for such disgusting discrimination. Let the agency work by money of it's own or consenting donations from people who support such discrimination.

Although personally, I would rather a child go to a caring home, not just one that lives up to the standards set forth by some judgmental as hell Christian. Which could ignore perfectly well suited homes for said child. Such an action is in their benefit, not the child's. Disgusting to use children in such a way, but if they want to. Then fine. Let them do so privately and not mooching off the Government and demanding that they be given special privilege by breaking the laws just for their benefit. I mean selfish much?

Christ. Who knew that passing judgment upon other people was so near and dear to the hearts of Christians anyway? I thought they were supposed to follow Lord Jesus' example?
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Contradiction suggesting that you are making it up as you go along

My dismay at your claim.

The Denial, or as you put it, the back peddling

By ignoring this misinformation exposé, you confirm it's validity.
Everything I posted about the bible was factual -- your belief notwithstanding. The "misinformation" is a myth based upon your own wishful thinking.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN

Ingledsva said:
LOL! A - translation - is exactly that - and is why we have different versions.

And that "exactly what God wanted me to read" - is bull. If the original text says - Qadesh, - you cannot translate it as homosexual, - as that is not what the word means!

It may not be what the word means but it is what God means

How can it be what God means - when it doesn't say what was supposedly dictated from God? Qadesh - means Sacred Prostitute.

He didn't translate it thus, Men replaced it during the translation.

Indeed! LATER people mistranslated what is supposedly God's word! How exactly is that kosher? And why do you think it is fine?

Ingledsva said:
Obviously it doesn't matter if your - translation - says something different. Read the original. The word translated as - men - 'ĕnôsh - also means people both male and female. Did you notice that even your KJV ends the verse with - ALL THE PEOPLE from every quarter? SO, ALL the people both male and female surrounded the house.

Hebrew is spoken by just 5 million people. 369 million people speak English. Who do you think is God's target audience? What the original states in an irrelevance. It was the common language of the day and it was written in that language, by infallible men, in preparation for its translation into more commonly used languages and in the process refined by Gods influence on men to read as he wanted it to.

Man you need to reread what you wrote!

The facts are that they were written in the languages of the countries they were given in.

in•fal•li•ble
(ɪnˈfæl ə bəl)

adj.
1. absolutely trustworthy or sure: an infallible rule.
2. unfailing in effectiveness or operation.
3. not fallible; exempt from liability to error, as persons, their judgment, or pronouncements.
4. (in Roman Catholicism) immune from fallacy or error in expounding matters of faith or morals.
n.
5. an infallible person or thing. (Random House Dictionary)

Why would they be given by God - INFALLIBLE, - so that they could later be mistranslated by - fallible men! That is ridiculous!

Translations from the original language, - to other languages, - have to keep the same meaning.

Ingledsva said:
LOL! Try reading the original texts which you folks claim are from God, - rather then translations!

I have never said that the original text came from God. I believe it was written by men and then God selected what He needed to deliver His message

LOL! If it wasn't from God - then it is totally worthless, - including how ever many times it is MISTRANSLATED! So you folks should stop trying to use its laws against other people.

Ingledsva said:
Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

That word is "YADA." And here is where YHVH uses the same word in the same story, - and obviously NOT meaning he was going down for some GAY SEX.

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.]

The word obviously has dual meaning

The word has multiple meanings, - however - this is a teaching story.

YHVH uses the word first - setting the meaning.

YHVH says he is going down to "yada" the evil people.

The angry people learning about the angels purpose to - yada - them, -- demand they be sent out so they can - yada - them first.

It is being used in the - JUDGE - and - EXECUTE JUDGMENT sense.

Here is Gen 19:9 - note what it says.

KJV - Gen 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.

ME - Gen 19:9 And they said, came these from afar, and they were commanded together, to make entrance and reside awhile (sojourn,) and they are to litigate (engage in legal proceedings) and execute judgment: thus henceforth (we) will bring punishment onto them. And they pressed upon the man Lot, vehemently, and they pushed hard to break open the door.

Ingledsva said:
YOU - can see from the words that they are talking about a RITE of SACRED SEX - WORSHIP!

Sacred Sex is a RITE performed in WORSHIP of a God, - and is thus is IDOLATRY, - and worthy of death according to the Hebrew texts.

Homosexuality is not a RITE of WORSHIP to another God.


I have shown that these texts are under Molech worship verses - and are what the Sacred Prostitutes did. And have other translations.

I realise that you have taken the time to write this, however, be assured that I am not avoiding it, I just feel that I would be repeating myself by responding to it.

It says what it says. A Sacred Sex RITE in WORSHIP of God as a Serpent - is Sacred Sex- IDOLATRY. It is obviously not talking about homosexuals.

Ingledsva said:
That is quite funny - that you don't want to know what the texts actually say in their original languages, - because they then don't jive with what YOU believe!

I do not want to know because I do not need to know. There is no other reason. Why would I need to know how it is translated from Hebrew to English. What purpose would it serve me in getting closer to God? It is but a foundation to a much greater work that will help me whilst in mortality. Even if it became glaringly obvious that God had made a huge blunder, it would not phase me and I would just have to accept that I don't see the whole picture so there must be a reason for it. I have been converted by the Holy Ghost, therefore, I cannot deny it. I am a closed minded bigot, as far as that is concerned.

Because otherwise you are reading, - and living, - a lie.

And who said God made an error here? Man mistranslated the originals.

They became the words of God after He selected them. He did not pen them with His own hands. When they became a complete canon of works they became the word of God. His compilation was complete.

That is hilarious, and doesn't do away with translation error. I might add if he didn't write/give them, - then why in the world would he select the words of fallible man?

Basic human rights to whom and what human rights are you referring to, only, as far as I am aware, everyone has the same human rights, including gays since the early 70s. Before that it was illegal, therefore, not a human right to break the law.

This is baloney. Gay people are still being treated like crap, discriminated against, etc., because of mistranslated Abrahamic texts.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
If an adoption agency wants the ability to choose the birth parents by faith or race or whatever the hell, then it should not accept money from the Government at all. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either work separately from the Government allowing you to not have to follow the laws of the land, or shut the hell up and act like adults. Follow the rules like everyone else has to instead of whining like a spoilt brat because the social contract and the law which applies to everyone equally says you have to treat everyone the same. Which I think encompasses Jesus' teachings far better than hiding behind Him in order to justify outdated and disgusting practices such as discrimination based on nothing but prejudice. I mean this is not like we are talking about people who are or have been locked up in prison or people posing actual threats to children. These are parents who have to go through a screening process to ensure their home is suitable. Now you want to throw extra hoops in front of that process? Fine. But Tax payers should not have to pay for such disgusting discrimination. Let the agency work by money of it's own or consenting donations from people who support such discrimination.

Although personally, I would rather a child go to a caring home, not just one that lives up to the standards set forth by some judgmental as hell Christian. Which could ignore perfectly well suited homes for said child. Such an action is in their benefit, not the child's. Disgusting to use children in such a way, but if they want to. Then fine. Let them do so privately and not mooching off the Government and demanding that they be given special privilege by breaking the laws just for their benefit. I mean selfish much?

Christ. Who knew that passing judgment upon other people was so near and dear to the hearts of Christians anyway? I thought they were supposed to follow Lord Jesus' example?

You incorrectly assume that if a birth parent wants their child to be raised in a particular faith, that this is a condescending and demeaning judgment against those who are not of that faith.
 
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