Mormon Excommunicated for advocating female priesthood.

[Mycroft]

Kate Kelly, who unsettled the Mormon Church by founding a movement to advocate opening the male-only priesthood to women, was excommunicated by her bishop and his two counselors in Virginia on Monday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/u...Excommunicates-Ordain-Women-Founder.html?_r=0


Not even the Church of England are this backwards anymore. Still, I find I have little sympathy for her. This is what will happen if you join a cult created by (what I feel to be) a criminal and mysogynist.

 

[BSM1]

Just another example of the ridiculousness of organized religion. Now she is free to start her own sect.

 

[Sunstone]

Now she is free to start her own sect.

It will be quite interesting to see if she does.

 

[Apex]

This has been a very big issue recently among LDS circles. As the OP has already shown, any kind of un-biased discussion is probably not possible here. But should anyone want to look into what actual LDS members think, the names at the end of this open letter can help:

Room for All in this Church | Ask Mormon Girl

Room for All in this Church
We face a difficult and pivotal moment in Mormonism as LDS leaders and church members wrestle more openly with complicated aspects of our faith, its doctrine, and its history—often in spaces afforded by the Internet. In light of possible disciplinary action against prominent voices among us, we the undersigned Mormon bloggers and podcasters affirm the value of the conversations that take place in the LDS “Bloggernacle” and express our hopes for greater understanding and compassion from all of us involved in current tensions.
May we all remember, as scripture teaches, the intricate intertwining of mercy and justice. May we all follow the admonition to seek understanding before judgment, even as we address matters that can be difficult to talk about.
Scripture and tradition teach us that excommunication is one way of maintaining the boundaries of a religious community. But we believe that excommunication is not the best way to address conflict over doctrine, policy, or tradition. We ask our leaders to consider other ways of maintaining boundaries, strengthening Church members, and encouraging them to grow spiritually within Mormonism’s large and embracing community without the fear and despair the threat of excommunication sows not only in those threatened but in their families, friends, and those who share similar concerns about LDS Church doctrine or history—even those who do so silently. We are deeply encouraged by the recent news about the prospect of de-escalation in at least one of the current cases and pray for positive steps towards reconciliation.
The issues in Mormon doctrine, history, and practice highlighted by those facing church discipline are much larger than any one individual. It is not only unavoidable that these issues will continue to be discussed; such discussion is good for the health of our religious community and faithful to the truth-seeking spirit of the Latter-day Saint Restoration. As bloggers, podcasters, and passionate contributors to good, healthy online discussion, we affirm our commitment to continue speaking openly and publicly, and encouraging others to do so as well. We will continue to use online spaces to grow in knowledge and faith, to attempt to present and see many sides of each issue, and to reach out to those expressing pain, heartache, and loneliness. It is our experience that these conversations can bear good fruit as Latter-day Saints mourn with those who mourn and reflect on, deepen, and renew their faith.
We are grateful for our membership in this Church and for the unique opportunities the Internet has provided us to share our Mormon experiences, questions, and hopes. We pray that a spirit of clemency will guide the words and actions of everyone—especially those who bear the heavy responsibility of ecclesiastical discipline of Church members—and that the words of President Uchtdorf will hold sway: “Regardless of your circumstances, your personal history, or the strength of your testimony, there is room for you in this Church.”
Signed:
Dan Wotherspoon, Mormon Matters podcast
Jana Riess, Flunking Sainthood blog (Religion News Service)
Natasha Helfer Parker, The Mormon Therapist blog
Paul Barker, Rational Faiths blog and podcast
Michael Barker, Rational Faiths blog and podcast
Mark Crego, A Thoughtful Faith Support Group (Facebook)
Lisa Butterworth, Feminist Mormon Housewives
Joanna Brooks, Feminist Mormon Housewives
Gina Colvin, KiwiMormon blog
Lindsay Park, Feminist Mormon Housewives
Jared Anderson, Mormon Sunday School podcast
Daniel Parkinson, No More Strangers blog
Bill McGee, Sunstone
Mary Ellen Robertson, Sunstone
Stephen Carter, Sunstone
Michael Stevens, Sunstone
Chelsea Shields Strayer, LDS WAVE
Tresa Edmunds, LDS WAVE
Chelsea Robarge Fife, Mormon Feminist Cooperative
Kalani Tonga Tukaufu, Feminist Mormon Housewives
David Landrith, Mormon Mentality
Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Mormon Matters podcast
Jerilyn Hassell Pool, Rational Faiths blog
Spencer Lake, Clean Cut blog
Brittany Morin-Mezzadri, TheLadyMo blog
Katie Langston, Feminist Mormon Housewives blog
Hannah Wheelwright, Young Mormon Feminists blog
Erin Moore, Young Mormon Feminists blog
Kimberly Lewis, Feminist Mormon Housewives
Nikki Hunter, Feminist Mormon Housewives
Nancy Ross, Nickel on the ‘Nacle blog
Mark Brown, The Mormon Hub (Facebook)
Alicia Jones, LDS Left (Facebook)
Elise Villescaz, LDS Left (Facebook)
Emily Summerhays, Feminist Mormon Housewives
Mindy Farmer, The Inquisitive Mom blog
Jeff Krey, A Thoughtful Faith Support Group (Facebook)
Lori Burkman, Rational Faiths blog
Laura Compton, Mormons for Marriage
Alison Moore Smith, Mormon Momma blog
Heather Olsen Beal, Doves and Serpents blog
Brent Beal, Doves and Serpents blog
Ed Snow, Doves and Serpents blog
Erin Hill, Doves and Serpents blog
Meghan Raynes, Exponent blog
Aimee Hickman, Exponent blog
Rachel Hunt, Exponent blog
Liz Johnson, Exponent blog
Libby Potter Boss, Exponent blog
Heather Moore-Farley, Exponent blog
April Young Bennett, Exponent blog
Deborah Farmer Kris, Exponent blog
Jessica Oberan Steed, Exponent blog
Carolyn Kline, Exponent blog
April Carlson, Exponent blog
Sariah Anne Kell, Exponent blog
Chelsea Sue, Exponent blog
Emily Clyde Curtis, Exponent blog
Emily Updegraff, Exponent blog
Dayna Patterson, Doves and Serpents blog
Cheryl Bruno, Worlds Without End blog
Katie Evans, Zelophehad’s Daughters blog
Kristy Benton, All Are Alike Unto God blog
Lori LeVar Pierce, All Are Alike Unto God blog
Rebecca Reid Linford, All Are Alike Unto God blog
Paula Goodfellow, All Are Alike Unto God blog
Cheryl McGuire, All Are Alike Unto God blog
Kay Gaisford, All Are Alike Unto God blog
Lorlalie Pallotta, All Are Alike Unto God blog
Wendy Reynolds, All Are Alike Unto God blog

 

[Muffled]

Kate Kelly, who unsettled the Mormon Church by founding a movement to advocate opening the male-only priesthood to women, was excommunicated by her bishop and his two counselors in Virginia on Monday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/u...Excommunicates-Ordain-Women-Founder.html?_r=0


Not even the Church of England are this backwards anymore. Still, I find I have little sympathy for her. This is what will happen if you join a cult created by (what I feel to be) a criminal and mysogynist.

I believe Eve's first sinful thought was that she could make better decisions than her husband.

 

[Muffled]

Just another example of the ridiculousness of organized religion. Now she is free to start her own sect.

She could call it Latter Day Evelutionarianism or maybe evilutionarianism.

 

[Sunstone]

As the OP has already shown, any kind of un-biased discussion is probably not possible here.http://askmormongirl.wordpress.com/2014/06/16/room-for-all-in-this-church/

That's your standard charge -- one you've made in post after post after post on this board. If it's not your own opinion, it's biased.

 

[Apex]

That's your standard charge -- one you've made in post after post after post on this board. If it's not your own opinion, it's biased.

Then perhaps you could prove me wrong? But you may excuse me if I don't get my hopes up when the thread is started with the words "criminal and misogynist". You may also notice I did not make that claim in the other thread on this exact topic as my post was thread specific.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Kate Kelly, who unsettled the Mormon Church by founding a movement to advocate opening the male-only priesthood to women, was excommunicated by her bishop and his two counselors in Virginia on Monday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/u...Excommunicates-Ordain-Women-Founder.html?_r=0


Not even the Church of England are this backwards anymore. Still, I find I have little sympathy for her. This is what will happen if you join a cult created by (what I feel to be) a criminal and mysogynist.

And Henry VIII wasn't a criminal and a misogynist? At least Joseph Smith had the courtesy not to have any of his wives executed.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then perhaps you could prove me wrong? But you may excuse me if I don't get my hopes up when the thread is started with the words "criminal and misogynist". You may also notice I did not make that claim in the other thread on this exact topic as my post was thread specific.

I think it's especially bizarre that he started the thread giving the Church of England - founded by a person who had two of his wives murdered and stole the wealth from most of the monasteries in his kingdom - to be an example of a denomination that isn't "a cult founded by a criminal and a misogynist".

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I believe Eve's first sinful thought was that she could make better decisions than her husband.

Well, obviously Adam wasn't capable of making a better decision than her since he ate of the fruit, too, and then acted like a coward and passed the blame on her. So stow the sexism.

 

[Mycroft]

This has been a very big issue recently among LDS circles. As the OP has already shown, any kind of un-biased discussion is probably not possible here. But should anyone want to look into what actual LDS members think, the names at the end of this open letter can help:

Room for All in this Church | Ask Mormon Girl

I am not bias against the LDS. I simply form my views by what evidence exists. Currently there is no evidence that supports the beliefs or views of the LDS, while there is more than enough evidence (such as the article linked in the original post) to suggest that Joseph Smith was a criminal and a mysoginist.

At the end of the day one has to ask onself when viewing all of the evidence (much of it written record) which is the more likely. That God really did supply him with golden tablets so that he could write a book in 17th Century english during the 19th Century? Or that he was, in fact, just a con-artist who was very successful in what he did.

 

[Mycroft]

Well, obviously Adam wasn't capable of making a better decision than her since he ate of the fruit, too, and then acted like a coward and passed the blame on her. So stow the sexism.

How could he have made a better decision without a concept of right and wrong? How do you expect him to obey an order that requries the concept of right and wrong without the prerequisite knowledge?

 

[Mycroft]

I believe Eve's first sinful thought was that she could make better decisions than her husband.

Are you saying you believe it is a sin for a female/wife to consider herself as having better ideas than a man/husband?

 

[Mycroft]

And Henry VIII wasn't a criminal and a misogynist? At least Joseph Smith had the courtesy not to have any of his wives executed.

I'm not sure why this is of any relevance, as I have never praised Henry VIII. You are, however, correct; He was a criminal and a mysogynist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not sure why this is of any relevance, as I have never praised Henry VIII. You are, however, correct; He was a criminal and a mysogynist.

You claimed that the Mormon stance on women in the priesthood was a result oc the fact that the LDS Church was founded by "a criminal and a misogynist" and gave the C of E as an example of a different approach, ignoring the fact that the C of E was most definitely founded by a criminal and a misogynist.

I found the inconsistency funny... and perhaps telling.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How could he have made a better decision without a concept of right and wrong? How do you expect him to obey an order that requries the concept of right and wrong without the prerequisite knowledge?

Ask Muffled that since he is the one who brought it up in the first place. I was countering his disgraceful sexism.

 

[Mycroft]

You claimed that the Mormon stance on women in the priesthood was a result oc the fact that the LDS Church was founded by "a criminal and a misogynist" and gave the C of E as an example of a different approach, ignoring the fact that the C of E was most definitely founded by a criminal and a misogynist.

I found the inconsistency funny... and perhaps telling.

No I accept that fact. But the C of E has at least, albeit begrudgingly, moved on.

 

[Mycroft]

Ask Muffled that since he is the one who brought it up in the first place. I was countering his disgraceful sexism.

I understand. My point was aimed at decision-making in general. The order not to eat of the fruit requires a knowledge of right and wrong, but Adam and Eve had no concept of right and wrong, so how can anyone claim that any decision making was involved at all?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I understand. My point was aimed at decision-making in general. The order not to eat of the fruit requires a knowledge of right and wrong, but Adam and Eve had no concept of right and wrong, so how can anyone claim that any decision making was involved at all?

No worries.