Most peaceful ancient pagan religion?

[Araceli Cianna]

What in your opinion were the most peaceful / egalitarian pagan religions of the ancient world?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I put in other. This is open to enormous levels of speculation because I'm reaching back into the mists of prehistory to give you this answer: I'd say animism - the veneration & worship of spirits is the oldest religion (Pagan or otherwise). It could be that Sun-worship is the oldest or that Goddess worship is the oldest. So any of those three, all of which come under 'other'.

 

[Quintessence]

I couldn't say. I don't really study ancient civilizations. From what I do know, the evidence we have about the going-ons of cultures long past is rather limited and in many cases largely nonexistent. I find it unlikely we have the information to make such an assessment at all.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Personally I don't regard Sumerian and Egyptian as Pagan. But even including them in this question, I'm not sure how to answer - all of those cultures were waring cultures. It could be compared which was the least non-peaceful, though that would take significant study and circumstantial comparisons.

 

[lovesong]

Peaceful and egalitarian are very different things. There were cultures that were impressively egalitarian but had a culture of war, and cultures that weren't war-centered but weren't very egalitarian either. I don't think you'll find one that really has both.

 

[VioletVortex]

First and foremost, Egyptian and Sumerian religions are forms of animism, not Paganism. Second, no Pagan path is inherently peaceful. They all have deities associated with war.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Paganism includes animism.

 

[Quintessence]

First and foremost, Egyptian and Sumerian religions are forms of animism, not Paganism.

I haven't ever heard someone claim this before. Where did you come across this perspective? It doesn't sound quite right to me and I'd like some references for consultation.

 

[VioletVortex]

I haven't ever heard someone claim this before. Where did you come across this perspective? It doesn't sound quite right to me and I'd like some references for consultation.

The Ragin Pagan made the same claim earlier. The official definition of "Paganism" is essentially what would be considered in modern times to be "alternative religion", so by those standards, yes Egyptian and Sumerian religions are "pagan", with a lower case "p". When that definition is used, it sort of becomes an adjective rather than a noun.

Paganism, as an actual religion, however, is typically used to refer to religions descending from the Indo-European cultural root, and sometimes, Finno-Urgic religions due to their association with Europe.

A good way of saying it would be that there is a distinction between a pagan religion and Paganism.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That just adds to confusion, wouldn't you say? Far easier to call them Middle Eastern polytheism, or just Kemeticism and Zoroastrianism.

 

[VioletVortex]

That just adds to confusion, wouldn't you say? Far easier to call them Middle Eastern polytheism, or just Kemeticism and Zoroastrianism.

Yes, polytheism would work equally well, as would their specific names. They still should not be lumped in with Greco-Roman Paganism and Heathenry, though.

 

[Callisto]

Yes, polytheism would work equally well, as would their specific names. They still should not be lumped in with Greco-Roman Paganism and Heathenry, though.

Why not?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Why not?

Their organizations don't consider themselves to be a part of Paganism, but their own individual tradition.

My view:

Has constantly proven itself to be hypocritical with it's over-devotion to what you deem as "light and right", and that anything even remotely shadowy is "not-Paganism".

In recent months the forum has been invaded by cultists with equally atypical ideas. It is all about mixing in Satan/Loki/Seth/Prometheus worship, power magic...

Only Loki and Prometheus come from not only modern Pagan cultures but historical as well, have actual worshipers who are Pagans, and are probably not what you think them to be either (as seen with your comment about "evil spirits"). Not to mention the many forms of Pagan magic - both historical and modern - meant to increase or enhance one's power.

Cut off your left hand and sleep with the lights on, if you're so opposed to it all. Also don't hope for Valhalla, as your quote suggests, without expecting to see Loki there as well.

hardly any real Pagans ever come here.

How very dare you, and who are you to decide thus?

REAL Paganism is trying to restore Mainstream, European, Polytheist, pre-Christian traditions.
Mainstream societal traditions: Not cults

You lack understand in what a cult is, it seems.

European: very similar Indo-Aryan traditions,

European has nothing to do with Aryan.

 

[Callisto]

Their organizations don't consider themselves to be a part of Paganism, but their own individual tradition.

In the same way Hellenics identify as polytheists but not Neopagans (as in Eclectics, Witches, etc.)?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

In the same way Hellenics identify as polytheists but not Neopagans (as in Eclectics, Witches, etc.)?

Quite a few of them, yeah. To be honest I'm not entirely clear on which Greek groups identify as Pagan and which don't, but to my understanding it's a mixed group. But with Middle Eastern polytheists, I've yet to know of a single group that does identify with us, and it's been something that I've been studying for a while.

 

[Callisto]

It can be confusing because both mainstream media and Neopagans tend to use “pagan” to refer to Neopaganism as well as maintain its common use (anything indigenous and/or non-Abrahamic regardless of whether those groups self-identify as “pagan”). Neopaganism evolved out of 19th/20th century Western occultism and the counter-culture era of the 1960s-70s into a convoluted mix of borrowed influences, including elements of ancient polytheistic traditions. As such, one will find Neopagan practices that “borrow” from ancient traditions including Egyptian, Sumerian, etc. as well as Native American (which can lead to debates about cultural appropriation).

In my experience, ethnic/indigenous and reconstructionist practices tend to identify as polytheistic and their ways as “traditions” (rather than “religions”).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Ragin Pagan made the same claim earlier. The official definition of "Paganism" is essentially what would be considered in modern times to be "alternative religion", so by those standards, yes Egyptian and Sumerian religions are "pagan", with a lower case "p". When that definition is used, it sort of becomes an adjective rather than a noun.

Paganism, as an actual religion, however, is typically used to refer to religions descending from the Indo-European cultural root, and sometimes, Finno-Urgic religions due to their association with Europe.

A good way of saying it would be that there is a distinction between a pagan religion and Paganism.

That's subjective. There is no definitive definition of in terms of its scope. Limiting it to pre-Christian European religions is ultimately arbitrary and possibly offensively ethnocentric. The indigenous religions of the peoples of the Americas, Asia, Africa and Oceania were viewed as being just as "pagan" and "heathen" by those who coined the term - Christians. Surely Christians and Muslims view ancient Near Eastern religions the same.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

First and foremost, Egyptian and Sumerian religions are forms of animism

They were more than just animists, having their own pantheon of deities.

Mind you, this the Neopagan or Revival Religions DIR. So those religions are certainly included.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

None of them were peaceful.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That's subjective. There is no definitive definition of in terms of its scope. Limiting it to pre-Christian European religions is ultimately arbitrary and possibly offensively ethnocentric. The indigenous religions of the peoples of the Americas, Asia, Africa and Oceania were viewed as being just as "pagan" and "heathen" by those who coined the term - Christians. Surely Christians and Muslims view ancient Near Eastern religions the same.

I'll be able to expand on this when I get home, but the Romans actually coined the term 'pagan'. It basically meant "country dweller".

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