Mr. Trump Calls Fallen Servicemen "Suckers" and "Losers"

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm saying that attacking McCain isn't an indicator
that he attacked soldiers unknown to him who
aren't political foes.
Trump could've said it.
Or he could've said something similar.
Or he could've said nothing of the sort.

I like recordings &/or identified reliable witnesses.

 

[Cooky]

View attachment 42612

My 8 yr. old daughter said that's disgusting.

 

[Revoltingest]

Could you summarize the video?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course there's an obvious contradiction between what Trump has said and what the administration has done.

Thats basically the whole of his presidency.

Another political created hoax that can be added to a litany of others.

Except much of what was mentioned is verified and on video. Amd it is certainly not outside of his character.

 

[The Hammer]

If Trump hates veterans so much, then why did he make sweeping changes to the VA, that over 90% of veteran's approve of?

Because a broken clock is right at least twice a day.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Fox News' own Pentagon correspondent independently confirmed key details of the Atlantic article, and quotes attributed to Trump, including referring to vets as "suckers", trying to stop flags going to half-mast after John McCain's death, etc. Here is the video:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1301996214154534912

No one: "This story is so implausible. Donald Trump could never possibly say or believe such things! It would be so out of character."

 

[The Hammer]

That and historically, Patton was quoted/paraphrased that dead soldiers don't win wars by giving their life for their country. You win wars by making the other ******* give his.

It makes me wonder what the left would say today if someone went along those lines?

There are things you say to inspire men in battle, and things you say to revere the fallen. This is an example of the former.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

From USA Today:

the Trump administration has passed and implemented historic reforms to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), including greater accountability for VA employees and increased health care choice for veterans, which enjoys support from 90% of veterans.

Trump achieves major victories for veterans: Opposing view

Your Opinion article references unspecified "historic reforms ... that enjoy support from 90% of veterans". Okay. That's pretty light on specifics. But for the sake of argument, let's assume this is true. The Trump administration deserves credit for that.

In addition, your Opinion article says Trump "signed bills that fixed long-standing issues". Ah. He signed bills. In other words, bills that were crafted and passed by the Democratic House, and Republican Senate. That's certainly nice.

But stay with me - I'm going somewhere with this.

Separately, I note that the Obama/Biden administration passed important VA reforms, too. Notably, the landmark bipartisan Veterans Choice law that Trump has incorrectly tried to take all credit for.
Sources: AP FACT CHECK: Trump takes credit for Obama's gains for vets
And: Obama signs landmark VA reform law

So, adding this all together, what does it tell us?

I guess for me, all this suggests that it is possible, in fact, to implement policies that benefit vets without having a Commander in Chief who maligns them behind their backs and uses them as props to glorify himself.

If you think otherwise ... if you think we simply cannot take care of our veterans without a Commander in Chief who behaves this way ... maybe your standards are too low?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I heard differently...
John Bolton Already Debunked Key Claim In Atlantic Report On Trump’s Alleged Comments On Dead Soldiers
Anonymous Sources Tell Mag Trump Called Dead Troops ‘Losers.’ 5 Witnesses Go On Record To Dispute.

Eh, who knows anything these days...

Your sources are flawed. While John Bolton did not hear Trump say the specific things mentioned in the Atlantic article, he said it rings true and it's absolutely possible Trump said those things. Source: Bolton Says Trump Remarks on Military ‘Despicable’ If Accurate

It is remarkable that a man like John Bolton, whose conservative credentials are unquestionable and served President Trump, cannot and will not say "Donald would never say such a thing".

Amazing how the personality cult of Trump has been so quick to dismiss and abandon their own if they turn against The Chosen One.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Looks like the MSM will have to... try again...

Fox News is the MSM. They are the most watched network. And their Pentagon correspondent's sources independently verified key details in the Atlantic including Trump calling vets "suckers".

Admittedly, that doesn't mean it's true. Maybe it will turn out not to be true. But no one credible is defending Trump on the basis that it cannot be true, it would be too out of character. That is a fact and that alone speaks volumes of the man.

It's also a verifiable fact that Trump lied about why he didn't go to the cemeteries in Paris. It is also a fact that the White House did not lower flags to half-mast for McCain for days after his death, when the rest of Washington had already done so.

Why do you think those things happened, if Donald Trump, America's spoiled-est boy, reveres selfless service to one's country?

Face it, Trump's outward patriotism ... like the faux gold adorning his hotels, fake university, fake hair, fake tan ... has always been a cheap substitute for the real thing. It was always "Trump first", never really America first.

 

[Shaul]

So a famously left wing magazine that has demonstrated abiding hatred of President Trump prints a hit piece about an incident from two years ago just before the election based entirely on anonymous sources that is denied, on the record, by people who were actually there, including Mr. Bolton who doesn’t even like Trump.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I appreciate the cite. But it's an opinion piece not the results of an actual poll. I distrust opinion pieces - they're not facts but opinions.

So I went on a hunt and found an actual poll: https://vfworg-cdn.azureedge.net/-/...r-Care-2019.pdf?&la=en&v=1&d=20190927T135726Z

When asked if they have noticed an improvement, 74 percent of respondents reported that they have seen improvements at their VA medical center within the past year or that no improvements were needed. This is a 10 percentage point increase from the 2018 survey where 64 percent of veterans reported seeking improvements or that non are needed. Twenty-six percent reported that they had not seen any improvements, but improvements are needed.

So the bottom line is that the act did make things better. Of course there's an obvious contradiction between what Trump has said and what the administration has done.

As long as we are talking about polling of US veterans .... if Trump has shown so much authentic reverence for our military - both when he's being watched, and in private - and implemented such important reforms, why does have the military view him unfavorably? And why do most say they are voting for Biden?

Source: Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden

 

[Cooky]

Your Opinion article references unspecified "historic reforms ... that enjoy support from 90% of veterans". Okay. That's pretty light on specifics. But for the sake of argument, let's assume this is true. The Trump administration deserves credit for that.

In addition, your Opinion article says Trump "signed bills that fixed long-standing issues". Ah. He signed bills. In other words, bills that were crafted and passed by the Democratic House, and Republican Senate. That's certainly nice.

But stay with me - I'm going somewhere with this.

Separately, I note that the Obama/Biden administration passed important VA reforms, too. Notably, the landmark bipartisan Veterans Choice law that Trump has incorrectly tried to take all credit for.
Sources: AP FACT CHECK: Trump takes credit for Obama's gains for vets
And: Obama signs landmark VA reform law

So, adding this all together, what does it tell us?

I guess for me, all this suggests that it is possible, in fact, to implement policies that benefit vets without having a Commander in Chief who maligns them behind their backs and uses them as props to glorify himself.

If you think otherwise ... if you think we simply cannot take care of our veterans without a Commander in Chief who behaves this way ... maybe your standards are too low?

Actually you're wrong there... Obama passed "Veteran's Choice" while Trump passed the more comprehensive "VA Mission Act", which is more flexible than Obama's.

Trump Signs $55 Billion Bill to Replace VA Choice Program

"President Donald Trump signed a landmark bill Wednesday to replace the troubled Veterans Choice Program and expand private health care options amid a fight between the White House and Congress over how to pay for it."

The bill, the VA Mission Act, would also expand caregivers assistance to the families of disabled veterans

 

[Mr Spinkles]

So a famously left wing magazine that has demonstrated abiding hatred of President Trump prints a hit piece about an incident from two years ago just before the election based entirely on anonymous sources that is denied, on the record, by people who were actually there, including Mr. Bolton who doesn’t even like Trump.

Only some of the claims in the article were based on anonymous sources. Other parts of the article are just reiterating verifiable facts: Trump lied about why he wouldn't go to a US veterans cemetary in Paris, didn't want to lower flags for McCain, suggested McCain isn't a hero, insulted a gold star family, dodged the draft due to bone spurs and then lied about that, etc. These are the parts of the article that were just factual.

Specifically calling vets "suckers" was based on anonymous sources. But many anonymous sources, saying the same thing. Even Fox News confirmed it.

Did Trump really say it? The fact that it's even a possibility speaks volumes of the man.

Again here's what Trump's own former Nat. Security Advisor, a longtime conservative, said:

Bolton, who published a book earlier this year that was heavily critical of his former boss, said the alleged remarks sounded accurate.
“I have not heard anybody say, ‘Oh, that doesn’t sound like the Donald Trump I know,’” Bolton said in the interview. Bolton said the remarks may have stemmed from Trump’s skepticism of U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
“He was prone to say from time to time: ‘What did they get out of it? What was the worth of the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan?’” Bolton said. “That is a kind of insensitivity that Trump does have, there’s no doubt about it.”
Bolton was on the 2018 trip to Paris with Trump but said he didn’t hear the president disparage the dead Marines himself.
“I didn’t hear him say those things,” he said, adding later he probably would have included the remarks in his book if he had. “Now, did he say those things to other people later in the day? It’s certainly possible.”
Asked whether Trump has high regard for the military, Bolton said, “I don’t think he really holds anybody in high regard except his family.”
Bolton said the Atlantic’s sources should publicly identify themselves and recount Trump’s remarks on the record, as he did in his book. He said Trump’s support among military service members is lower than it should be for a Republican, a problem for his re-election effort.
“The military typically could be expected to support the Republican candidate very heavily, but I think there are many, many in the military who are not going to do that,” he said.

Source: Bolton Says Trump Remarks on Military ‘Despicable’ If Accurate

 

[Cooky]

As long as we are talking about polling of US veterans .... if Trump has shown so much authentic reverence for our military - both when he's being watched, and in private - and implemented such important reforms, why does have the military view him unfavorably? And why do most say they are voting for Biden?

Source: Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden

I think spending $55,000,000,000.00 on Healthcare for veterans would be a pretty big sacrifice for a bunch of alleged "suckers" and "losers".

 

[Mr Spinkles]

That and historically, Patton was quoted/paraphrased that dead soldiers don't win wars by giving their life for their country. You win wars by making the other ******* give his.

It makes me wonder what the left would say today if someone went along those lines?

I think we can assume a man like Patton, who actually served, is making that statement as a matter of strategy and tactics and not as a way of disparaging the concept of self-sacrifice.

I think we can assume Donald Trump, America's selfish-est person, who dodged the draft and then said McCain isn't a hero, was just saying that as part of his standard pattern of hurling childish insults at anyone who crosses him.

Grand military strategist like Patton, Trump is not. Lack of empathy for human suffering and narcissism, like Patton? Sure, maybe.

 

[Cooky]

Literally under Joe Biden's watch, more money was being spent on Syrian migrants than on VA Healthcare for American veterans.

Fact Check: Did Obama allow funds to be shifted from the VA to Syrian refugees?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

McCain as an indicator has one problem....
He wasn't just any soldier, he was a strong political foe.
Trump treats all foes badly, & having been a soldier
would confer McCain no immunity to Trump's hostility.
It's just not evidence.
Without a recording or trustworthy witnesses, it all seems
timely too-good-to-be-true plausible news, & handed to
Biden by The Atlantic, which is very friendly to him.

Yes Revolt, it is true that Trump treating McCain badly isn't evidence that Trump seeks out vets to treat them badly.

It is evidence of his lack of regard for the concept of self-sacrifice and service to country, that this wouldn't give him any pause whatsoever, and treat a political foe differently ... or at least, not specifically attack McCain about his military service.

I'll bet Trump thinks lots of people are suckers and losers, and will say so, not just vets. That's not much of a defense of the man, though, if you think about it.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Literally under Joe Biden's watch, more money was being spent on Syrian migrants than on VA Healthcare for American veterans.

Fact Check: Did Obama allow funds to be shifted from the VA to Syrian refugees?

Which part of this article, specifically, are you focusing on? This article is about how Obama did not shift funds from the VA to Syrian refugees - it is debunking that claim. But maybe I missed the part you wanted to focus on.

It's interesting that in spite of the portrait you are trying to paint of Biden being less "pro veteran" than Trump, half of those in the military regard their current Commander in Chief unfavorably and only one third say they will vote for him. Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden

Maybe they don't like being used as props like General Mattis wrote about in the article in which he excoriated Trump?

 

[Cooky]

Which part of this article, specifically, are you focusing on? This article is about how Obama did not shift funds from the VA to Syrian refugees - it is debunking that claim. But maybe I missed the part you wanted to focus on.

It's interesting that in spite of the portrait you are trying to paint of Biden being less "pro veteran" than Trump, half of those in the military regard their current Commander in Chief unfavorably and only one third say they will vote for him. Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden

Maybe they don't like being used as props like General Mattis wrote about in the article in which he excoriated Trump?

I was only focusing on the numbers Fact Check provided.

So under Biden's watch as VP, the US spent :

• 2 billion on VA Healthcare
• 4.5 billion on Syrian migrants

...That's a disgrace.

Fact Check: Did Obama allow funds to be shifted from the VA to Syrian refugees?

Veterans' Access to Care through Choice, Accountability, and Transparency Act of 2014 - Wikipedia