Mr Spinkles
Mr
That’s right. The fact that he could have called our own vets “suckers” and “losers” ought to be shocking.
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Mr. Trump Calls Fallen Servicemen "Suckers" and "Losers"
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
And since it's shocking, I'd expect something more
than anonymous sources, given that this affair could
possibly affect the election.
I'd say it's much more than that. It's a argument that he probably did say it.
My argument that when the totality of evidence is considered collectively, which includes many of the other things that Trump has said and done revealing similar selfish, malevolent, and disloyal thinking, as well as a growing list of anonymous sources and news outlets vetting them, and the deafening silence of all but Trump's apologists, the charges are very credible. That indicates more than "could have." It says to me and millions of others that he probably did say it.
And isn't that what matters? It's why Trump is receiving so much blow back even from former Trump supporters that have only recently abandoned him. People hear the words "sucker" and "loser" and find them very consistent with the rest of Trump's thinking and values.
I see this scandal as one with traction that will deepen and continue to haunt Trump through the election. It doesn't even matter in 2020 America what Trump said. It's enough that the charges are coming from multiple directions and that they are credible. Even if the whole thing was a hoax and a conspiracy, it's fixed in people's minds now. It worked, and it worked because true or not, it's credible.
I don't believe that for a moment, but even if true, Trump set himself up to be dealt with like that, like somebody who is heard saying, "I'm going to kill you," and then gets framed for murder by somebody who heard the comment and wants the recipient of the threat dead. One's mouth can make false charges seem credible. If that's what's going on here, Trump has only himself to blame for making himself vulnerable in this manner.
When I see how Trump is often mis-quoted or quotes are given
strained inferences serving an agenda, it's also possible that he
could've said something other than what was attributed to him.
So I'm skeptical of him "probably" having said it.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I would expect more than anonymous sources to confirm that it’s true. I agree with you there.
But also, I would expect more than “you can’t prove it beyond all doubt” to defend Trump’s character. It’s shocking no one is rushing to his defense with “he would never say such a thing”. Can you imagine if no one defended Obama, or GW Bush, McCain or Romney, and everyone agreed it was possible they said such things? Neither can I. Trump is the worst.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Kelly certainly ain't coming to his defense, nor is Trump's niece and his own sister who stated that Trump threatened both Donald Jr. and Tiffany with being disowned if they joined the military.
Trump's character is pretty well established for all to see by now.
Whether this quote is real or not shouldn't make any difference.
If it does to someone, they should re-evaluate their method of
determining whom to vote for.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
The fact that no one is coming to Trump’s defense based on character over this one quote, all by itself, may not make a difference.
But it should be added to the list. As that list grows longer, more people will reach their limit with Trump. It took years for that to happen with John Kasich, General Mattis, Anthony Scarramucci, etc.
This situation is just one more of many to reinforce what
partisans on both sides already believe....his character is
bad....it's a baseless attack.
All largely irrelevant to me, since both Trump & Biden have
extensive records in office. Mixed bags they are indeed.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
No, it’s not “just” that. It’s more than that. If it was “just” that then Trump’s poll numbers would never change, but they do. Some people change their minds. This is one more important item to add to a long list weighing heavily on Trump’s poll numbers.
That's why I used the qualifier, "many".
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I hear you, but you also used the words “just” and “reinforce”. His poll numbers have declined, so there’s more than just reinforcing of existing views happening. (Who knows what will happen between now and November, of course)
I know what will happen.
Biden will win.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
But they are: Bolton and the US Ambassador to France, Jamie McCourt were there; both denied that Trump said this.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Bolton said Trump did not use the word “sucker” in his presence but that he would not be surprised if he had, because it’s consistent with the attitudes he has seen Trump express. That’s his own former National Security Advisor. Ouch.
I don’t know about McCourt, do you have a source?
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Thanks. A tabloid? Okay ... she can’t reasonably claim Trump never said “suckers”. She can only say he never said it in her presence.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
So, we're good with anonymous sources who confirm our biases?
Mr Spinkles
Mr
No, I am not good with anonymous sources that confirm my biases.
Normally, my bias would be that a story from anonymous sources about a President calling US vets "suckers" right before an election, is likely to be false. However, with Donald Trump, the weight of the evidence of his past behavior overwhelms the normal bias I would have to doubt this claim. I don't know if the "suckers" part, specifically, is true - but if you assume it isn't, because GW Bush would never say it, and Obama would never say it, and Mitt Romney would never say it ... if you apply that same assumption to Donald Trump ... don't flatter yourself that you are being objective. You aren't. Just naive.
It's possible Trump is being unfairly accused this time - just like The Boy Who Cried Wolf. But if you remember that Aesop's Fable, the moral of the story was not that the villagers were "biased".