Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals over 2016 election interference

[columbus]

I'm sure glad I am not of hater of certain people like you appear to be. Par for the course. Like the early catholics hating and killing gnostics. Damned heretics, damned Russians, damned Republicans.

Like the OT. Damned gentiles. I wish you could see what I see.

I will assume that you have no coherent response to what I actually said.
The Republicans have apparently become the party of Putin. It shocks me, given all the history of cold war and such. But the evidence is out there and easy to see.
Tom

 

[Enoch07]

You would guess “no evidence” without evidence to back that opinion up. Gotcha.

I know right! Now you know what it's like to be a Christian talking to a secularist.

You seem to think the Russians were justified in what they did because you believe that Hillary would have been a horrible president.

Never said that. But yes Hillary would have been the worst choice.

You believe this so absolutely that you are not particularly bothered that the Russians influenced our election.

Nope, I just don't want to have yet another debate where evidence and articles are listed just to have the Dems stick fingers in their ears a "lalalala". It gets old after awhile.

Maybe we should just start calling our president “treasonous Trump”.

Go for it, freedom of speech.

 

[Phantasman]

You sure accuse people of this a lot, when they don't agree with your premises.

I call'em as I see 'em.

"And becoming more like them all the time.
When did that become the goal of the GOP?"

Becoming more like the Russian people as a derogatory remark, as the false premise that the GOP has that as a goal, is showing no compassion for men and women within such groups. And how often have I alluded to hatred? Only when it's clearly instituted in one view or beliefs. If one see's a reason to hate the Russian people, produce it. Or any group for that matter. Global beliefs like this are a sign of ignorance (another word I use when applicable). Guess what? Not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all claiming Christ are Christians. Not all Atheists are the antichrist.

Perspective. Another word I use a lot.

 

[Phantasman]

I will assume that you have no coherent response to what I actually said.
The Republicans have apparently become the party of Putin. It shocks me, given all the history of cold war and such. But the evidence is out there and easy to see.
Tom

Selling 20% of our Uranium to Russia wasn't done by the Republicans. Consulting with Steele that produced a dossier from Russian Intelligence was't done by Republicans. Yep, the evidence is out there and easy to see.

 

[Falvlun]

I know right! Now you know what it's like to be a Christian talking to a secularist.



Never said that. But yes Hillary would have been the worst choice.



Nope, I just don't want to have yet another debate where evidence and articles are listed just to have the Dems stick fingers in their ears a "lalalala". It gets old after awhile.



Go for it, freedom of speech.

The long and short of it is that you are ok that the Russians influenced our election because they were on your side.

I think you and everyone else who “can’t blame the Russians” need to take a good long look in the mirror and consider if the reverse occurred.

 

[columbus]

Becoming more like the Russian people as a derogatory remark, as the false premise that the GOP has that as a goal, is showing no compassion for men and women within such groups.

I wasn't talking about the Russian people.
I am talking about the Russian government and social contract.
It wasn't that long ago that the USA maintained a huge military to fend off Russia and their undemocratic oligarchic state.
Now the Republicans don't think having the Russian government support a candidate more strongly than the American electorate is even important.
Tom

 

[Falvlun]

Selling 20% of our Uranium to Russia wasn't done by the Republicans. Consulting with Steele that produced a dossier from Russian Intelligence was't done by Republicans. Yep, the evidence is out there and easy to see.

It is mind boggling the conspiracy theories conservatives believe and yet they can’t conceive that the Trump campaign possibly colluded with the Russians that were so invested in helping him out.

 

[Enoch07]

The long and short of it is that you are ok that the Russians influenced our election because they were on your side.

The Russians are not on my side. Otherwise my write in vote would have won the election. The Libertarian struggle is real. /Sigh

I think you and everyone else who “can’t blame the Russians” need to take a good long look in the mirror and consider if the reverse occurred.

It happens every election. I wish it was not so but there is nothing I personally can do about it. Perhaps tougher restrictions on immigration would prevent election meddling? Considering 13 of them were just found here meddling in the election.
Careful now your starting to sound like a Trump supporter!

 

[Phantasman]

That's what I said.
It was you who claimed "the American people spoke".
They did and picked Hillary. But that doesn't matter.
Tom

You're right. It doesn't matter. The Electorates of each state (people) are the ones that see what their people are voting and vote as the voice of them in the Electoral College. They could go against what the people in the state wanted and go it themselves if they want. Each Electoral vote is done by a person. Trump received more off those Electoral votes, by those persons, than Hillary did. 304 people in the Electorate gave their votes to Trump. 227 of those people wanted Hillary. Out of 531 people casting votes for their voting populace, Trump received much more than required. The total popular vote does nothing. There are plenty of people in the states that doesn't vote, yet they contribute to how many Electoral votes each state gets. We have no idea who would have won the election if every person voted.

You need to take a class on Civics and American History. What country are you from, or live in?

 

[Phantasman]

It is mind boggling the conspiracy theories conservatives believe and yet they can’t conceive that the Trump campaign possibly colluded with the Russians that were so invested in helping him out.

Since I am not a conservative, I don't know what they think. Nor the liberal side. What I conceive isn't important. What the results are through the facts obtained is all I am concerned with. So far, I see no facts tying Putin and Trump together to rig an election. Not saying it won't show up. But until it does, or doesn't become proven, Trump is the President of the US. It's patriotic to support the President elected, until you have proof he is eligible to be removed. Not by what an opposing party thinks, but by the actions deemed dangerous to the nation. So far, only the former is in play.

 

[Phantasman]

I wasn't talking about the Russian people.
I am talking about the Russian government and social contract.
It wasn't that long ago that the USA maintained a huge military to fend off Russia and their undemocratic oligarchic state.
Now the Republicans don't think having the Russian government support a candidate more strongly than the American electorate is even important.
Tom

Remember, it was Obama that had Europe's Missile Defense System removed after George W Bush enacted it as a need from Iranian and Russian aggression. Ironic that after Obama had it dismantled that Russia went into Crimea.

The Democrats have as much mud on their face as the Republicans. The "swamp" is well named. I would be embarrassed to say that I was pundit for either side. Independent gives me freedom.

 

[columbus]

You need to take a class on Civics and American History. What country are you from, or live in?

I am very much aware of the Electoral College, how it works and who it's rigged in favor of.
You are the one who said "The American People have spoken", as though they elected Trump.
Tom

 

[Falvlun]

The Russians are not on my side. Otherwise my write in vote would have won the election. The Libertarian struggle is real. /Sigh

You have indicated that you did not want Clinton to be President. The Russians were working to accomplish just that.

It happens every election. I wish it was not so but there is nothing I personally can do about it. Perhaps tougher restrictions on immigration would prevent election meddling? Considering 13 of them were just found here meddling in the election.
Careful now your starting to sound like a Trump supporter!

What are you talking about? You have evidence that Russia or some other country has waged an influence campaign of this magnitude in every US election?

And I’m really not sure why you brought immigration into it.

Why don’t we start by imposing the sanctions that Congress nearly unanimously passed and Trump decided to just not do?

 

[Enoch07]

You have indicated that you did not want Clinton to be President. The Russians were working to accomplish just that.

Yeah and you didn't want Bernie to be president. Does that mean you support the Russians as well?

No

What are you talking about? You have evidence that Russia or some other country has waged an influence campaign of this magnitude in every US election?

Maybe not of this magnitude, but yes this is common Tradecraft - Wikipedia employed by bigger countries like the U.S., Russia, China, The E.U etc

And I’m really not sure why you brought immigration into it.

From the OP's article.

"The (13) defendants allegedly posed as US persons, created false US personas and operated social media pages and groups designed to attract US audiences, the indictment reads. Two of the Russians also allegedly traveled to the United States in 2014 to gather intelligence for their operations."

Tighter immigration laws might have prevented it. But liberals are against that so, it's kinda your own fault for allowing them in.

 

[Falvlun]

Yeah and you didn't want Bernie to be president. Does that mean you support the Russians as well?

No.

... I voted for Bernie in the primaries and voted for Clinton in the general.

I’m not the one who said that he couldn’t blame the Russians for not wanting Hilary to be president. You are.

Maybe not of this magnitude, but yes this is common Tradecraft - Wikipedia employed by bigger countries like the U.S., Russia, China, The E.U etc

That wiki is about general espionage practices. It doesn’t say anything about election interference and it certainly doesn’t give any specific examples of this happening.

From the OP's article.

"The (13) defendants allegedly posed as US persons, created false US personas and operated social media pages and groups designed to attract US audiences, the indictment reads. Two of the Russians also allegedly traveled to the United States in 2014 to gather intelligence for their operations."

Tighter immigration laws might have prevented it. But liberals are against that so, it's kinda your own fault for allowing them in.

That doesn’t really say how those Russians enetered our country. I’m assuming a travel VISA.

A VISA to travel to the US is different from immigration.

I also don’t remember Trump or conservatives having any issues with Russians traveling to the US. They were pretty fixated on Mexicans and Muslims. Has Trump made any move to limit Russian travel to the US in light of all these revelations?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

See it as you like. Since the outcome was that it didn't effect the election, it has no importance. The Electoral College worked and the American people spoke. Like it should.

Even so, doesn't it bother you that they did interfere, and committed other crimes in order to do?

 

[columbus]

Remember, it was Obama that had Europe's Missile Defense System removed after George W Bush enacted it as a need from Iranian and Russian aggression. Ironic that after Obama had it dismantled that Russia went into Crimea.

The Democrats have as much mud on their face as the Republicans. The "swamp" is well named. I would be embarrassed to say that I was pundit for either side. Independent gives me freedom.

So, why do you think that the Republicans are so unconcerned about Putin's involvement?
We're fighting them in Syria and they're allies with Iran. They used to be a rival Superpower, and Putin seems to want that status back.
I think he'd go to war to get it. He certainly doesn't have the USA's best interests in mind.
But he wanted Trump and got it. Frankly, I can't see how any USA supporters would fail to be disturbed by that and want answers.
Tom

 

[Buddha Dharma]

"And becoming more like them all the time.
When did that become the goal of the GOP?"

I don't see you refuting the statement, so much as throwing offense as a maneuvering tactic. You accuse me of being anti-Russian if you like for this statement, but- I do not want to be more like Russian society currently is. They are a society that glorifies brutal masculinity. They are full of prejudices and fanaticism is taking over their nation as their democracy dies. America has enough of all these problems without Russia helping.

Global beliefs like this are a sign of ignorance

Globalism is the only hope humans have, now that we've been thrown together via internet and travel, regardless of rather or not some individuals like it. Humans are killing one another and the earth, as things stand now.

 

[Phantasman]

I am very much aware of the Electoral College, how it works and who it's rigged in favor of.
You are the one who said "The American People have spoken", as though they elected Trump.ce day
Tom

Rigged?

(sigh)

 

[Phantasman]

Even so, doesn't it bother you that they did interfere, and committed other crimes in order to do?

I'm not bothered at all. That would take away from my life, since there isn't anything I can do about it. Same with all the accusations of illegal servers, selling Uranium, false dossiers, DNC hacks, Weiners nude pics, senators groping women, etc.etc. I don't make the rules or have the ability to hold people accountable. Only those I can touch.

Washington has a corruption in many details. I only have the ability to vote for a House Representative and a Senator. I am not bothered that big cities are predominantly Democrat controlled. I live away from them. I see the Internet as a window to the world. One that can be opened to view it, and closed when it becomes necessary. My reality is acres of woods, trees and mountains. What happens to those in the big cities are their concerns. The racial divide. The flag burners. The sanctuary safety of law breakers. Watching them actually makes me feel better about my own surroundings. I'm sure that the Bible belt will eventually fall to the madness. But I doubt it will in my lifetime.

The media is controlling. Including the advertisers. I choose to control my own thoughts, especially those of common sense.