Muhammad ibn Abd'Wahhab

[Assad91]

What are your thought on the man from Najd who created the Salafi sect, Muhammad ibn Abd'Wahhab?

 

[F0uad]

He didn't create a sect and he never contradicted Islam at-least i couldn't find anything in hes biographies. The only thing that he did was tell people not to worship graves, never said anything new and he was condemned by it and still is. There is no person on the planet that calls him or her self a Whabi only other people call people Whabi's because they don't agree with the original Sunnah such as many western Muslims who also don't agree Sharia should be implemented.

 

[Assad91]

Actually, most e western reverted muslims are salafis.

Inshallah I will have time later to post,more.

Salam.

 

[TashaN]

What are your thought on the man from Najd who created the Salafi sect, Muhammad ibn Abd'Wahhab?

You may need to read this first.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/56677-things-you-do-not-know-about.html

 

[Assad91]

You may need to read this first.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/56677-things-you-do-not-know-about.html

I read the your opening post. The only link that worked was WAHABISM EXPOSED! , The truth about wahabism, wahhaabis and Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab

And, I am sorry, I am not going to read much. Since, as usual, it starts off in the normal salafi way by swearing Islam was lost, everyone deviated and the ummah need a new savior to bring it out of the dark with reform. When in reality, the Ummah has always had scholars of madhabs protect and advance the madhabs. This like this is nonsense. If it was up to Salafis, than Allah (swt) didn't make a clear enough religion or sent good enough scholars whoa re "inheritors of prophets", to safeguard the religion.

HE rewrote the religion. Tawassul through Prophet (saws) and Awliya, Shrines, Mosques built upon graves, Sufism, etc, all these were permissable accroding to the four madhabs, including the founders. Than Muhammad ibn wahhab came along, breaking away from the Ummah, and created his own Islam.


There is even a hadith which warns about him.

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet said, "O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen." The People said, "And also on our Najd." He said, "O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham (north)! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen." The people said, "O Allah's Apostle! And also on our Najd." I think the third time the Prophet said, "There (in Najd) is the place of earthquakes and afflictions and from there comes out the side of the head of Satan."

And satanic in deed. It is those who follow this supposed reformist who kill innocent people, making suicide halal.

 

[TashaN]

There is even a hadith which warns about him.

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet said, "O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen." The People said, "And also on our Najd." He said, "O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham (north)! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen." The people said, "O Allah's Apostle! And also on our Najd." I think the third time the Prophet said, "There (in Najd) is the place of earthquakes and afflictions and from there comes out the side of the head of Satan."

And satanic in deed. It is those who follow this supposed reformist who kill innocent people, making suicide halal.

Hmmm, interesting interpretation for the hadith. Did it occur to you that it could not refer to him? or your mulla convinced you about it so it must be correct?

 

[Assad91]

Hmmm, interesting interpretation for the hadith. Did it occur to you that it could not refer to him? or your mulla convinced you about it so it must be correct?

Well of corse it could be wrong. But the khawarji like Salafis causing so much trouble, seem pretty satanic to me. The lies and propraganda they spread is horrific. Reinterpreting such things like bida, their pride and egos making them think they are the only true muslims.

Tell me, was it correct to attack and kill sufis and anyone who doesn't agree with them? I see online many salafis who think its okay to kill "ahl bida". Do you think its right for them to denounce the founders of madhabs, except maybe Hanbal (ra). Is it right to lie to newly converted muslims, push arabization, push hatred for nonbelievers, interpretate Quran and say any who don't agree to be kufr? These are things I was tricked into believing after coming to Islam.

 

[Assad91]

or your mulla convinced you about it so it must be correct?

Is this a play into accusing me of taqlid, blind following? I notice many Salafis accuse others of such, saying its haram and deviation. That is, unless you're blindlly following ibn Taymiyah, or any modern day Salafi scholar.

 

[TashaN]

Well of corse it could be wrong. But the khawarji like Salafis causing so much trouble, seem pretty satanic to me. The lies and propraganda they spread is horrific. Reinterpreting such things like bida, their pride and egos making them think they are the only true muslims.

Tell me, was it correct to attack and kill sufis and anyone who doesn't agree with them? I see online many salafis who think its okay to kill "ahl bida". Do you think its right for them to denounce the founders of madhabs, except maybe Hanbal (ra). Is it right to lie to newly converted muslims, push arabization, push hatred for nonbelievers, interpretate Quran and say any who don't agree to be kufr? These are things I was tricked into believing after coming to Islam.

I'm confused a bit. Is this thread about Ibn Alwahab or about Salafis online?

 

[Assad91]

I'm confused a bit. Is this thread about Ibn Alwahab or about Salafis online?

Its about Ibn abdWahhab and his sect

 

[TashaN]

Its about Ibn abdWahhab and his sect

Could you provide us with sources about when he founded his sect and general information about it? Thank you.

 

[Assad91]

You said you was from Saudi Arabia. They don't teach you history?

Anyway, tne link I posted from your other thread gives some good info. I would just rephrase some of it, as his "reform" was simply denouncing traditional Islam and recreating it.

 

[TashaN]

You said you was from Saudi Arabia. They don't teach you history?

Anyway, tne link I posted from your other thread gives some good info. I would just rephrase some of it, as his "reform" was simply denouncing traditional Islam and recreating it.

I'm not from Saudi Arabia. I just lived there. I'm waiting for you to provide me with the info about his sect and when he created it and how it renounced Islam. Thank you.

 

[Assad91]

I'm not from Saudi Arabia. I just lived there. I'm waiting for you to provide me with the info about his sect and when he created it and how it renounced Islam. Thank you.

As I said. Its in your own link. Ii can add more link, insh'allah when I get on a desktop. In meantime, you can see a thread which deals with one belief they renounced, tawassul through Prophet Muhammad (saws) and Awliya. A traditional practice from the salaf.

 

[TashaN]

As I said. Its in your own link. Ii can add more link, insh'allah when I get on a desktop. In meantime, you can see a thread which deals with one belief they renounced, tawassul through Prophet Muhammad (saws) and Awliya. A traditional practice from the salaf.

I'll wait for you.

 

[Assad91]

Okay. So, I will go off the link you posted from your other thread as a basis to compare the sect Muhammad ibn AbulWahhab made compared to traditional Islam.

2. Tawassul –
This means a fervent plea and is of two types: the permitted and the prohibited. The permitted one is by means of faith and righteous deeds and the Glorious Names of Allah and his attributes. The prohibited one is entreaty using the name of the Messenger, pious people and saints.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam-dir/148351-tawassul-through-prophet-saws.html

You can go to the link to see the evidences that tawassul was allowed by all madhabs and their founders.

4. Construction over graves, covering and decorating them etc. -
The Sheikh openly declared that to construct buildings over the graves is unlawful. So is to shroud the graves with beautiful coverings and decorating them. It is prohibited to burn candles over the graves or to set up stone inscriptions. He also declared that it is illegal to have custodians and caretakers of shrines. Visiting such places tantamount to idol worship and can lead to other prohibited actions such as kissing them and going round them. He supported his statements with numerous hadiths prohibiting such constructions, visiting them and praying in them. The Shaikh quoted the hadith of Abu ‘l-Hayyaj al-Asadi whom Ali ibn Abi Talib asked:

“Should I not commission you with a duty with which the Messenger of Allah had commissioned me-to leave no statue but to crush it, and no grave raised above the surface of the ground but to level it down?”

Praying in mosques containing shrines of the friends of Allah is not only valid and permissible, but reaches the status of recommendation as confirmed by primary evidence from the Qur`an and Sunnah, the practice of the Companions and the practical consensus of the community.

Evidence from the Qur`an

Allah the Almighty says:

{They dispute among themselves as to their affair. (Some) said, “Construct a building over them”: Their Lord knows best about them.” Those who prevailed over their affair said, “Let us surely build a place of worship over them.”} (Al-Kahf, 21)

The context of the verse indicates that the words in the first quotation were uttered by the disbelievers while those in the second were uttered by the believers. Allah the Almighty relates the two statements without repudiation, demonstrating the permissibility of both opinions. But contrary to the words of the believers which were marked with indecision, the words of the believers imply commendation and resoluteness in their desire to erect a mosque and not a mere structure..........................................
.............................Evidence from the sunnah

• `Urwa Ibn al-Zubair narrated through al-Musawer Ibn Makhrama and Marawan Ibn al-Hakam (may Allah be pleased with them) that when Abu Basir died, Abu Jandal Ibn Suhail Ibn Amr buried him and constructed a mosque over his grave at Saif al-Bahr in the presence of three hundred of the Companions.[1] The ascription of this hadith is sound and includes trustworthy scholars. Such an action could not have been concealed from the Prophet ; in spite of this it was not reported that the Prophet ordered that the grave be removed or exhumed.

• It was confirmed that the Prophet said, “The graves of seventy prophets can be found in the mosque of Al-Khayf.”[2]

• Non-prophetic narrations confirm that prophet Ismai’il and his mother Hajar (may Allah be pleased with her) were both buried in Al-Hijr in the Sacred Precinct. This was mentioned by trustworthy historians and acknowledged by Islamic historians such as Ibn Is-haq in Al-Sira, Ibn Jarir al-Tabari in Tarikhu, al-Suhaili in Al-Rawd Al-Unuf, Ibn al-Jawzi in Muntadhim, Ibn al-Athir in Al-Kamel, al-Dhahabi in Tarikh Al-Islam and Ibn Kathir in Al-Bidaya wa Al- Nihaya among others. The Prophet acknowledged both the fact that prophets are buried in Khayf Mosque and that Ismai’il and his mother are buried in al-Hijr and did not order that their graves be removed.

Practice of the Companions

Imam Malik recorded the Companions’ disagreement over the Prophet’s burial place in his Muwatta`. He cited that some people favored that the Prophet be buried at the pulpit while others wanted to bury him at al-Baqi`. Abu Bakr then came forward and said, ‘I heard the Prophet say, “Whenever a Prophet died, he was buried in the same place where he died’; therefore, the Prophet was buried in a grave in the same room where he died.
None of the Companions renounced the suggestion to bury the Prophet at the pulpit which is definitely part of the mosque. Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) only refrained from acting upon this suggestion to conform to the Prophet’s order to be buried in the place where he died. Consequently, the Prophet was buried in ‘A`isha’s room which was adjoined to the Prophet’s Mosque where Muslims pray. In our time, this corresponds to the scenario of mosques adjoining rooms containing the shrines of the friends of Allah.

The claim that adjoining a shrine or a grave to a mosque is a privilege of the Prophet is invalid since it is unsubstantiated by any evidence and is, furthermore, completely nullified by the burial of Abu Bakr and `Umar in the same room in which ‘Ai`sha (may Allah be pleased with her) lived and performed both her obligatory and voluntary prayers. The Companions’ acknowledgment of this is proof of their unanimous agreement on its permissibility.

The practical consensus of the community and scholarly acknowledgement

• The righteous predecessors and later generations offered their prayers in the Prophet’s Mosque and others containing shrines without anyone raising objections.
• In the year 88 A.H., Al-Walid Ibn Abd al-Malik issued orders to the governor of Medina at that time, `Umar Ibn `Abd al-`Aziz, to include the room where the Prophet was buried within the premises of the mosque itself. Scholars from among the seven scholars of Medina approved of this and none of them objected except Sa`id Ibn al-Musaib. He only protested because he wanted to preserve the Prophet’s quarters to serve as an example for Muslims to become acquainted with the living conditions of the Prophet and thereby renounce worldly pleasures not because he maintained the prohibition of praying in a mosque containing a grave.

‘A`isha’s hadith

‘A`isha narrated that the Prophet said, “Allah cursed the Jews and the Christians for taking the graves of their prophets as masjids” (Recorded in the Sahih of Bukhari and the Sahih of Muslim). The word ‘masjids’ here refers to places of worship i.e. they prostrated before the graves in glorification and worship like the disbelievers who worshipped statues and idols. This is further elucidated in an authentic hadith mentioned by Ibn As`ad in Tabaqat Kubra through Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him) who narrated that the Prophet said, “O, Allah do not make my grave an object of worship; Allah cursed those who took the graves of their prophets as masjids.” The words “Allah cursed those…” indicate that taking the grave as an object of worship and therefore the hadith is interpreted as: ‘O Allah! Do not let [people take] my grave as an object of worship before which people prostrate and worship as others did with the graves of their prophets.’

Imam Al-Baidawi said:

Allah cursed the Jews and the Christians because they prostrated in glorification before the shrines of their prophets, took the graves as their Qibla towards which they turned for prayer and as objects of worship. Allah forbade Muslims from imitating them. However, there is no objection to building a mosque around the grave of a righteous person or to praying inside his shrine, by way of seeking blessings and not veneration to its inhabitant. Do you not see that the grave of Isma`il in the Holy Mosque and the graves at Hatim are the best places in which to pray? The prohibition only concerns exhumed graves containing filth.

It is established in Islamic law that a grave must have been either owned by its inhabitant before his death or endowed to him after his death. Conditions laid down by the endower are tantamount to rulings laid down by the Legislator and so it is impermissible to use the grave for any other purpose.

Building domes and shrines over the deceased | eShaykh.com

6. Innovations-
The Sheikh very much disliked and spoke out against innovations (Bida’) especially

:

Yet, traditionally the scholars of all madhabs said there were two types of bida. One is blameless, another blameworthy. The Concept of Bid'a In The Islamic Shari'ah

 

[Assad91]

One of his teachers, mentioned earlier,
Shaikh Muhammad ibn Sulaiman al-Kurdi had the following to say:

“O Ibn Abdul Wahhab, I advise you, for the sake of Allahu Ta’ala, to hold your
tongue against the Muslims...You have no right to label the majority of Muslims
as blasphemers while you yourself have deviated from the majority of Muslims.
In fact it is more reasonable to regard the one who deviates from the majority as a
blasphemer than to regard the Muslims as a nation as blasphemers...”

Interesting look at what happened http://www.seekingilm.com/books/wahhabite.pdf

 

[Sakeenah]

What are your thought on the man from Najd who created the Salafi sect, Muhammad ibn Abd'Wahhab?

This is quite interesting something shaykh muhammed ibn abdulwahaab(may Allah have mercy on him) wrote in the book al-Durar al-Sunniyyah, 1/64-65, 79-80

What Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab said, describing himself, was: “I tell you that– praise be to Allaah – my belief and my religion, according to which I worship Allaah, is the way of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, which was the way of the imaams of the Muslims, such as the four Imaams and their followers until the Day of Resurrection. But I explain to people that they must devote their worship sincerely to Allaah (ikhlaas). I forbid them to call upon the Prophets and the dead among the righteous and others, and from associating them with Allaah in any act of worship that should be done for Allaah alone, such as offering sacrifices, making vows, putting one’s trust, prostrating and other actions which are due to Allaah and in which no one should be associated with Him, not any angel who is close to Him or any Prophet who was sent. This is the Message which was proclaimed by all the Messengers, from the first of them to the last of them, and this is the way of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah. I hold a high position in my village and people listen to me. Some of the leaders denounced that because it goes against the customs they grew up with. I also obliged those who are under me to perform regular prayer, pay zakaah and fulfil other Islamic duties, and I forbade them to deal with ribaa, drink intoxicants and other kinds of forbidden things. The leaders could not criticize that or find fault with it, because it is something that is liked by the common folk, so they directed their criticism and enmity against that which I enjoin of Tawheed and that which I forbid of shirk, and they confused the common folk by saying that this goes against what everyone is doing, and they caused a great deal of fitnah…”

Assad91 did you read shaykh mohammed in abdulwahaab's book kitaabu tawheed?

 

[Assad91]

What Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab said, describing himself, was: “I tell you that– praise be to Allaah – my belief and my religion, according to which I worship Allaah, is the way of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, which was the way of the imaams of the Muslims, such as the four Imaams and their followers until the Day of Resurrection. But I explain to people that they must devote their worship sincerely to Allaah (ikhlaas). I forbid them to call upon the Prophets and the dead among the righteous and others, and from associating them with Allaah in any act of worship that should be done for Allaah alone, such as offering sacrifices, making vows, putting one’s trust, prostrating and other actions which are due to Allaah and in which no one should be associated with Him, not any angel who is close to Him or any Prophet who was sent.

I have no problem with the bolded. But to reiterate, I have already proven tawassul through Prophet (saws) and awliya has been allowed by all four madhabs founders. You can see in the thread http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam-dir/148351-tawassul-through-prophet-saws.html

I also obliged those who are under me to perform regular prayer, pay zakaah and fulfil other Islamic duties, and I forbade them to deal with ribaa, drink intoxicants and other kinds of forbidden things. The leaders could not criticize that or find fault with it, because it is something that is liked by the common folk, so they directed their criticism and enmity against that which I enjoin of Tawheed and that which I forbid of shirk, and they confused the common folk by saying that this goes against what everyone is doing, and they caused a great deal of fitnah…”

This I am not against. But killing Muslims I am :yes:

Assad91 did you read shaykh mohammed in abdulwahaab's book kitaabu tawheed?

I have read publications which speak of it, mention it, qoute it, etc.

 

[Sakeenah]

I have no problem with the bolded. But to reiterate, I have already proven tawassul through Prophet (saws) and awliya has been allowed by all four madhabs founders. You can see in the thread http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam-dir/148351-tawassul-through-prophet-saws.html



This I am not against. But killing Muslims I am :yes:




I have read publications which speak of it, mention it, qoute it, etc.

Okay I will read that thread InshaAllah...I think every Muslim/shaykh is against killing Muslims
I would recommend you to read the book kitabu tawheed.
I think as muslims we should respect each others views AND research the others opinion..because how can I claim a person is wrong if I never read the person's words. And I'm not talking about quotes etc.
here's a link:

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/kitab_ut_tawheed.pdf