Muhammad is God?

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

Muslims believe that no human is God, and that to worship a human as God is considered polytheism, and an unforgivable sin. However this is odd, because Muslims seem to deify Muhammad: making an image of Muhammad is forbidden; it is obligatory to ask God each day to send blessings upon Muhammad; in Muhammad's own day his every preference was to be obeyed, even if it did not "come from God"; Muhammad's saliva was believed to have healing powers—newborns were given it to drink. I do not mean to disparage Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims. But this has been on my mind for some time. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, no matter the name, it is a duck. Which human is given such reverence and privilege other than Muhammad? If this has been discussed elsewhere then please provide me with the link. Thanks. What are your thoughts?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Muslims believe that no human is God, and that to worship a human as God is considered polytheism, and an unforgivable sin. However this is odd, because Muslims seem to deify Muhammad: making an image of Muhammad is forbidden; it is obligatory to ask God each day to send blessings upon Muhammad; in Muhammad's own day his every preference was to be obeyed, even if it did not "come from God"; Muhammad's saliva was believed to have healing powers—newborns were given it to drink. I do not mean to disparage Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims. But this has been on my mind for some time. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, no matter the name, it is a duck. Which human is given such reverence and privilege other than Muhammad? If this has been discussed elsewhere then please provide me with the link. Thanks. What are your thoughts?

Have you asked a Muslim if he or she believes this?
How to Convert to Islam

When you deify someone or something, you treat that someone or something as god. Jesus is not god nor is Muhammad. Both Jesus and Muhammad taught to worship god only and no one else. Jesus was submissive to his father and didn't equate himself to his father. Islam, in a word, means submission (to god).

Since Muhammad is not god, why would it be forbidden not to depict him in a picture?

Actually, Judaism and Islam are the only two religions I know that worship god and god only (those I came in contact with outside the internet). Christians are the only ones that have an intermediary they actually worship.

Intermediaries, prophets, messengers, images, and so forth are not the same as god.

I think most Christians god it mixed up, not Muslims.

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

Have you asked a Muslim if he or she believes this?
How to Convert to Islam

I was Muslim.

When you deify someone or something, you treat that someone or something as god. Jesus is not god nor is Muhammad. Both Jesus and Muhammad taught to worship god only and no one else. Jesus was submissive to his father and didn't equate himself to his father. Islam, in a word, means submission (to god).

You obviously do not understand mainstream Christianity.

The Father is essentially an abyss so to speak, with a mind. This mind imagined itself and formed an idea of who it was: a self-image, who is the Son. This image was that of flesh and bone, in an environment of land, sea, atmosphere and life. And when this image was generated, it created that land, sea, etc. Jesus said: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?" This makes sense, does it not? Jesus is God; and he said so.

Have you ever heard the saying, or some form of it: 'They don't say what they mean; they don't mean what they say'? Yeah—Muhammad said to worship God. But what does it matter if one calls a duck by another name? It is still a duck.

Since Muhammad is not god, why would it be forbidden not to depict him in a picture?

Why do Muslims kill people for making images of Muhammad?

Actually, Judaism and Islam are the only two religions I know that worship god and god only (those I came in contact with outside the internet). Christians are the only ones that have an intermediary they actually worship.

Intermediaries, prophets, messengers, images, and so forth are not the same as god.

I think most Christians god it mixed up, not Muslims.

The self-image of God is an intermediary between God and man? What are you talking about?

I think you got it mixed up.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I was Muslim.

You obviously do not understand mainstream Christianity.

The Father is essentially an empty abyss so to speak, with a mind. This mind imagined itself and formed an idea of who it was: a self-image, who is the Son. This image was that of flesh and bone, in an environment of land, sea, atmosphere and life. And when this image was generated, it created that land, sea, etc. Jesus said: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?" This makes sense, does it not? Jesus is God; and he said so.

Have you ever heard the saying, or some form of it: 'They don't say what they mean; they don't mean what they say'? Yeah—Muhammad said to worship God. But what does it matter if one calls a duck by another name? It is still a duck.

Why do Muslims kill people for making images of Muhammad?

The self-image of God is an intermediary between God and man? What are you talking about?

I think you got it mixed up.

No. I was a christian convert too. I've been Christian only four years of my adult life; and, they were the best of my spiritual years than I have my whole life.

God, by definition, is spirit. Once that spirit becomes a human, he is no longer spirit. He is a human. You have a spirit and I have a spirit. Jesus is no exception.

I don't know if you believe christ is god, but I know by scripture he is not. Muhammad is a human, says he is a human, and tells others to worship god only. It's a very simple statement of faith.

Where in the Quran does it tell the follower to worship Muhammad?

I mean, you see some Buddhist bow to The Buddha statue and you see other Buddhist I practiced with bow to The Dharma. Then other Buddhist don't bow at all.

None of them worship anyone as god.

Just by "thinking" that Muslims put anyone equal to god is just, well, off.

Did you worship Muhammad?

If so, why?

Edit: Also, unless I read this wrong, why would Muslims worship Muhammad and depict an image of him but the put in your reply that Muslims kill other people for having pictures of Muhammad? I'd assume the latter is true.

If you killed someone, should we blame you or christ?

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

No. I was a christian convert too. I've been Christian only four years of my adult life; and, they were the best of my spiritual years than I have my whole life.

God, by definition, is spirit. Once that spirit becomes a human, he is no longer spirit. He is a human. You have a spirit and I have a spirit. Jesus is no exception.

I don't know if you believe christ is god, but I know by scripture he is not. Muhammad is a human, says he is a human, and tells others to worship god only. It's a very simple statement of faith.

Where in the Quran does it tell the follower to worship Muhammad?

I mean, you see some Buddhist bow to The Buddha statue and you see other Buddhist I practiced with bow to The Dharma. Then other Buddhist don't bow at all.

None of them worship anyone as god.

Just by "thinking" that Muslims put anyone equal to god is just, well, off.

Did you worship Muhammad?

If so, why?

Edit: Also, unless I read this wrong, why would Muslims worship Muhammad and depict an image of him but the put in your reply that Muslims kill other people for having pictures of Muhammad? I'd assume the latter is true.

If you killed someone, should we blame you or christ?

"What is that over there?" Said John.
"It is a frog." Said Jane.
"But frogs don't quack." He replied. "It must be a duck."

"Who is that over there?" Said John.
"That is Muhammad, the Messenger of God." Said Jane.
"But men aren't revered to that degree." He replied. "He must divine."

Do you get my point? I am saying that Muhammad is not divine, in name only — in operation, he is divine.

I am familiar with the Quran.

[41:6] Say (unto them O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"What is that over there?" Said John.
"It is a frog." Said Jane.
"But frogs don't quack." He replied. "It must be a duck."

"Who is that over there?" Said John.
"That is Muhammad, the Messenger of God." Said Jane.
"But men aren't revered to that degree." He replied. "He must divine."

Do you get my point? I am saying that Muhammad is not divine, in name only — in operation, he is divine.

I am familiar with the Quran.

[41:6] Say (unto them O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you.

If Muslims are killing others that have the picture of Muhammad, their statement of faith says worship god only, and your quote of the quran says Muhammad sees himself as a man just as someone else, why would you infer that Muslims deify Muhammad in your OP?

Some Muslims probably, but according to the Quran and just being around Muslims, I don't see how deification of anyone else would be part of their faith.

I would assume Muslims forbid imagery of Muhammad because he is a messenger blessed by god (just as Jesus and Abraham etc) and to depict any messengers of god would be against Muslim teachings.

I mean, did you deify Muhammad as a Muslim?

 

[YmirGF]

Muslims believe that no human is God, and that to worship a human as God is considered polytheism, and an unforgivable sin. However this is odd, because Muslims seem to deify Muhammad: making an image of Muhammad is forbidden; it is obligatory to ask God each day to send blessings upon Muhammad; in Muhammad's own day his every preference was to be obeyed, even if it did not "come from God"; Muhammad's saliva was believed to have healing powers—newborns were given it to drink. I do not mean to disparage Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims. But this has been on my mind for some time. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, no matter the name, it is a duck. Which human is given such reverence and privilege other than Muhammad? If this has been discussed elsewhere then please provide me with the link. Thanks. What are your thoughts?

While I would definitely agree that it IS hero worship, it's not out and out deification. Muslims do not pray to Muhammad as a god.

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

If Muslims are killing others that have the picture of Muhammad, their statement of faith says worship god only, and your quote of the quran says Muhammad sees himself as a man just as someone else, why would you infer that Muslims deify Muhammad in your OP?

Some Muslims probably, but according to the Quran and just being around Muslims, I don't see how deification of anyone else would be part of their faith.

I would assume Muslims forbid imagery of Muhammad because he is a messenger blessed by god (just as Jesus and Abraham etc) and to depict any messengers of god would be against Muslim teachings.

I mean, did you deify Muhammad as a Muslim?

The items I listed in my OP are some reasons why I think Muslims deify Muhammad. Call it deification or not, but it is what it is. What other human is given such reverence and privilege?

I don't get what you are trying to say in your first paragraph.

Making an image of a "mere human" is a capital offense? How is this rational?

 

[A Spirit Runs Through It]

While I would definitely agree that it IS hero worship, it's not out and out deification. Muslims do not pray to Muhammad as a god.

In your opinion, what is the difference between hero worship and divinization? And when do they become virtually indistinguishable?

And do you think Islam qualifies as a cult of personality? Why, or why not?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The items I listed in my OP are some reasons why I think Muslims deify Muhammad. Call it deification or not, but it is what it is. What other human is given such reverence and privilege?

I don't get what you are trying to say in your first paragraph.

Making an image of a "mere human" is a capital offense? How is this rational?

Actually, a lot. The Buddha. Jesus Christ. Nichiren Daishonin. Usually those who passed away, though.

When you say Muslims, I think generalization and you're talking about the Islamic religion not a selective Muslims who "deify" Muhammad where many in the US do not.

I always wondered why abrahamics deify people who passed away but tell people who are alive they are just "men" and not important as god is.

How is the dead much more divine than the living?

 

[YmirGF]

In your opinion, what is the difference between hero worship and divinization? And when do they become virtually indistinguishable?

And do you think Islam qualifies as a cult of personality? Why, or why not?

I do think that Islam is a personality cult. Hero worship? Think Brittany Spears or Michael Jackson. People emulate them, but don't worship them.

 

[sun rise]

For images of Muhammad, the issue is not black/white Have pictures of Muhammad always been forbidden? - BBC News

The Muslims I know have deep respect for Muhammad as an ideal human being. Respect is not hero worship.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Jesus said: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?" This makes sense, does it not? Jesus is God; and he said so.

Didn't he also say we could be in him? Does that make us literally Jesus?

Why do Muslims kill people for making images of Muhammad?

Because they're stupid. There are plenty of examples of Muslim art, even depicting Muhammad, prior to some sort of art crackdown.

"Who is that over there?" Said John.
"That is Muhammad, the Messenger of God." Said Jane.
"But men aren't revered to that degree." He replied. "He must divine."

People had to bow before kings and such. The Japanese bow as a general greeting. Does that make them gods? Just because one culture doesn't have the same manners regarding honor and respect as another, doesn't make it jump straight to worship.

 

[YmirGF]

The Muslims I know have deep respect for Muhammad as an ideal human being. Respect is not hero worship.

I still say that it goes way, way beyond respect, where they love Muhammad more than their family members. That's not respect; that's obsession. Even if you are more correct, that is still very troubling as Muhammad was far from being the ideal human being.

 

[Muffled]

Muslims believe that no human is God, and that to worship a human as God is considered polytheism, and an unforgivable sin. However this is odd, because Muslims seem to deify Muhammad: making an image of Muhammad is forbidden; it is obligatory to ask God each day to send blessings upon Muhammad; in Muhammad's own day his every preference was to be obeyed, even if it did not "come from God"; Muhammad's saliva was believed to have healing powers—newborns were given it to drink. I do not mean to disparage Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims. But this has been on my mind for some time. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, no matter the name, it is a duck. Which human is given such reverence and privilege other than Muhammad? If this has been discussed elsewhere then please provide me with the link. Thanks. What are your thoughts?

I believe perceptions vary depending on point of view. The Sanhedrin perceived Jesus as a charlatan. I think Muslims are apt to be envious of the divinity of Jesus and would like to elevate Muhammad to that status as well.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Religions, and religious people, need symbols/idols their worship on. Mohammed, along with the Quran, serve this purpose for Muslims.

People need tangible people/places/things to serve as sacred symbols, otherwise religion wouldn't have the power and influence it does. Trying to pull apart the worship of their god from the worship of their sacred symbols is an exercise in futility, as these things are intertwined to the point of being essentially all part of the same sacred idea.

A religion that didn't utilize the power of idols and symbols wouldn't be able to influence or control the behaviors and actions of millions upon millions of people. God, itself, is too abstract of a concept.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Muslims believe that no human is God, and that to worship a human as God is considered polytheism, and an unforgivable sin. However this is odd, because Muslims seem to deify Muhammad: making an image of Muhammad is forbidden; it is obligatory to ask God each day to send blessings upon Muhammad; in Muhammad's own day his every preference was to be obeyed, even if it did not "come from God"; Muhammad's saliva was believed to have healing powers—newborns were given it to drink. I do not mean to disparage Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims. But this has been on my mind for some time. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, no matter the name, it is a duck. Which human is given such reverence and privilege other than Muhammad? If this has been discussed elsewhere then please provide me with the link. Thanks. What are your thoughts?

You have some points.
As a Bahai I believe Muhammad was a Manifestation of God. The Manifestation of God, is like a Mirror, showing and representing the Image of God.; that is, a Mirror reflecting the Attributes and Will of God in fullness.
There are also verses if Quran, and Hadithes, confirming this.
However, the natural body of Muhammad, was mortal, just as any other mortal man, as you also see in the Quran. His Holy Soul however, is the Manifestation of God.

 

[YmirGF]

However, the natural body of Muhammad, was mortal, just as any other mortal man, as you also see in the Quran. His Holy Soul however, is the Manifestation of God.

While Muslims would likely agree with the first part I don't see many of them agreeing with your 2nd assertion. If Muhammad was a manifestation of god, "god" help us all.

 

[FearGod]

Muhammad was a human being, full stop

 

[Muffled]

Religions, and religious people, need symbols/idols their worship on. Mohammed, along with the Quran, serve this purpose for Muslims.

People need tangible people/places/things to serve as sacred symbols, otherwise religion wouldn't have the power and influence it does. Trying to pull apart the worship of their god from the worship of their sacred symbols is an exercise in futility, as these things are intertwined to the point of being essentially all part of the same sacred idea.

A religion that didn't utilize the power of idols and symbols wouldn't be able to influence or control the behaviors and actions of millions upon millions of people. God, itself, is too abstract of a concept.

I believve Paul had a word for that: worshipping the creation more than the creator.