Muhammad's Troubling Marriages to Aisha and Safiyah

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Peace to all.
Holy Prophet pbuh came when morals and faith in God were declined to lowest.
Holy Quran records:
[30:42] Corruption has appeared on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought, that He may make them taste the fruit of some of their doings, so that they may turn back from evil.



Holy Prophet taught forgotten Unity of God and morals. His life was open to everyone that is why it was said:
[10:17] Say, ‘If Allah had so willed, I should not have recited it to you nor would He have made it known to you. I have indeed lived among you a whole lifetime before this. Will you not then understand?’


He showed morals with his model:
[68:5] And thou dost surely possess high moral excellences.


He (pbuh) was denied, he was told to pray:
[43:90] Therefore, turn aside from them, and say, ‘Peace’; and soon shall they know.

ما كو واحد يقول لبني حامض
Don't saythatmilkvendorbrickacid
It's what you doherein this dialogue
We reveal to people the acidity of the Bank
And all the talk that is contrary to the logic of reason

 

[Ashraf]

Firstly, the age of marriage for Aisha is disputed by some Muslim scholars. They say she was at least 17 years old when she married the prophet. Secondly, people who bash Islam for this forget a very simple fact regardless of her age and that "She Married". Thirdly, it was an a acceptable norm among peoples - including Jews and Christians - in that era for women to marry as soon as they reached puberty. And it is a historical fact that no Christian or Jews living at the time of prophet Mohammed ever criticized him for marrying Aisha...

And again and again and again...It was a Marriage !

 

[Chev Chelios]

Chev Chelios

Perhaps you missed the point when I told you that according to Islamic teachings, you have to abide what is socially acceptable in the place you live as long as it is not against Islamic teachings. So yeah ,morality that Allah gave us is timeless, that is why if something in a culture is against Islam you don't have to follow.


The only source of the age of Aisha at her marriage is her own narrations, so whatever age you are coming to conclude, the source of that information would be from Aisha herself. Now if you are going to take her hadith as true and accept that her age was X, than you must also take her other hadiths also. So like you have accepted the hadith of her age, accept her other hadiths and look at them. See how her life was before you come to your ignorant conclusions. One of the things she said that I witness that there is no God except Allah and that Muhammad peace be upon him is his messenger.

I missed no point because you made none. Your argument that Moslems must abide by what is socially acceptable, so long as it does not conflict with Islam, is irrelevant to what we are discussing. Or are you saying that because raping little children is not explicitly condemned in the Koran means that if raping kids is normal as per the customs of the time then Moslems residing in that culture can join in the fun?? Sort of circa 620AD?? Sorry - but was that your point?

So now you are trying to base your argument regarding Aishas age on technicalities. Rubbish. Her testimony to her age is found in your most authentic hadith - the other hadith containing conflicting testimonies (if any such ones actually exist which detail her age) carry less weight than those in Sahih hadith - they are LESS reliable you see. I am simply using your own criteria which deems these lesser Hadith, to be, well - lesser. She was clearly just a kid.

The point of all this is the terrible act perpetrated by Muhammad and the God of Islam has served to carry child rape into 2014 with many Moslem socities propergating it and so it is that the Moslem majority world has the highest proportion of child brides than anywhere else in the glode. I have already pointed out that Islamic law deems girls mature at the age of menarche - average age of 10/11. Therefore, if a Moslem has sex with a 10 year old girl in accordance with Islamic scripture and Islamic law then in my view he has just raped a child. Can you see why I have a problem with Muhammads actions and what is written in your holy scripture? Do you disagree? I am sure you do - so detail how so.

 

[Chev Chelios]

Yes...it does have to do with the topic. Because nobody will ever prove how old Aisha was when she got married. Who cares, then?
all that really matters is the law.
and Muslims who live in European countries are forced to respect the separation between religion and state and they are forced to respect the state law of those countries: and so they can't even apply their religious beliefs in Europe.

No - it has nothing to do with the topic.

First, Islam's very best sources show her age to be 6 at the time of marriage and under 9 at its consummation. Case closed. So yes - we know her age.

Second - all that matters is law you say? Well Islamic law stipulates that a girl is sexually mature at the commencement of menses - a global average of 10/11 I should point out. So you should bloody well care because little girls are being raped and married off at a disproportionate rate all over the Islamic world and it is all because of what Muhammad did and what is espoused in the Koran and Hadith. That you narrow your concern down to only what is happening within your own Italian borders is rather selfish of you - but have it your way.......
....... But hold on - are you really sure Moslems in Italy are abidding by your laws? I can divulge to you that here in Britain we are seeing rising numbers of little girls being married off. Indeed, a recent investigation by ITV (Britians second biggest television network) found that 33% of Imams in the UK were WILLING to perform marriage of girls under 14 - yes, under 14 and right here in Non Islamic England! If you extrapolate that 33% to the tens of thousands of Imams here in Britain you can see the problem we face - can't you?

Do you really think this is not happening in Italy? I assure you it is because Moslems regard Islamic law as having greater authority than man made laws and as the numbers grow you will soon see the desire of the Islamic diasporas all over Europe begin to assert their cultural identity ever more vigorously. Take off your blinkers and wise up - it is already happening. And it is all in accordance with Islam.

 

[Chev Chelios]

Firstly, the age of marriage for Aisha is disputed by some Muslim scholars. They say she was at least 17 years old when she married the prophet. Secondly, people who bash Islam for this forget a very simple fact regardless of her age and that "She Married". Thirdly, it was an a acceptable norm among peoples - including Jews and Christians - in that era for women to marry as soon as they reached puberty. And it is a historical fact that no Christian or Jews living at the time of prophet Mohammed ever criticized him for marrying Aisha...

And again and again and again...It was a Marriage !

Wow. No matter how much you point out that the argument of what or what wasn't normal in the 7th century is irrelevant, for some reason it just cannot compute with Moslems - they just constantly revert ad nauseam back to saying exactly what you have just rebutted. And no matter how many times you point out that Islams BEST MOST AUTHENTIC SOURCES for Aishas age shows her to be 6 then 9 Moslems will find some random 'scholar' who says different. And so here we go again....

Ok. I have already dealt with your nonsensical excuse for Muhammad’s vile actions towards a young girl - you should really learn to read the original question. Anyway - what was acceptable by society 1400 years ago is completely irrelevant to this debate – cultural evolution of fallible humans does not hold up as an excuse by Moslems for sex with children because we are discussing the morality of God’s and prophets. I have absolutely no problem with the average 7th century Arab taking a child bride as per the customs at this time – they did not know any better. HOWEVER - I have a huge problem with why the God of Islam would specifically select a child to be the bride of his prophet knowing child marriage and child sex is utterly wrong (I do hope we can agree that sex with little girls is wrong).

Therefore, despite the fact that this was normal practice in the 7th century I argue that Muhammad was very wrong in sleeping with a girl of not even 9. Muhammad wasn’t a man of his time, but rather a man selected to be the perfect example for all time – who was being divinely guided by God. Because God isn’t governed by timelines we can see that if the morality of the God of Islam had deemed sex with children as wrong in 620 AD then he simply would not have allowed the divinely guided Muhammad to do it! It is inconceivable that God would make exceptions to what he deems right or wrong - especially as this apparently was all being set up by him as the perfect religion to be followed for eternity.

God makes no exceptions and he doesn’t change his mind – his views are identical now as they were in 620AD - so if he sees sex with children as wrong in 2014 then he sure as hell would have seen it the same way in 620AD. Yet, given this immovable morality of God – you really think we can believe that the God of Islam would select a child bride for Muhammad and allow him to have sex with her before she was 9 years old nonetheless – just because it was normal human behaviour at the time??

Nope, sorry – utter rubbish. The God of Islam allowed Muhammad to have sex with a child, thus we can accurately conclude that sex with a 9 year old has to be ok in the eyes of the God of Islam - the date is completely irrelevant as God is timeless (and I couldn't care less as to whether that 'almost' 9 year old had started menses or not! And we know Aisha almost certainly wouldn't have!).

Now - IF God had not intended this marriage to serve as a guide for what would qualify as an acceptable union between a man and woman for eternity then to avoid confusion the God of Islam really should have produced a verse to point out the context of the marriage – but he didn’t. Rather, he let a man have sex with a child (who he selected) and didn’t say anything about context in the ‘holy book’ to account for this anomaly – meaning we can fairly take the lesson from this that the God of Islam allows sex with children. And sadly this has had profound implications for what do we see in many Islamic societies?

Your other point regarding the fact that no-one contested to the marriage at the time is not surprising - because those people that didn't contest it were fallible humans who regarded sex with girls as rather normal as per the state of the culture at the time! They didn't know any better. But Gods should do shouldn't they!!

So - now I have pointed this out yet again - I ask you - what is your excuse for your prophet and your god for their clear crime of child abuse? Again and again and again - it was marriage but she was 6!!!!!!

 

[Estro Felino]

No - it has nothing to do with the topic.

First, Islam's very best sources show her age to be 6 at the time of marriage and under 9 at its consummation. Case closed. So yes - we know her age.

Second - all that matters is law you say? Well Islamic law stipulates that a girl is sexually mature at the commencement of menses - a global average of 10/11 I should point out. So you should bloody well care because little girls are being raped and married off at a disproportionate rate all over the Islamic world and it is all because of what Muhammad did and what is espoused in the Koran and Hadith. That you narrow your concern down to only what is happening within your own Italian borders is rather selfish of you - but have it your way.......
....... But hold on - are you really sure Moslems in Italy are abidding by your laws? I can divulge to you that here in Britain we are seeing rising numbers of little girls being married off. Indeed, a recent investigation by ITV (Britians second biggest television network) found that 33% of Imams in the UK were WILLING to perform marriage of girls under 14 - yes, under 14 and right here in Non Islamic England! If you extrapolate that 33% to the tens of thousands of Imams here in Britain you can see the problem we face - can't you?

Do you really think this is not happening in Italy? I assure you it is because Moslems regard Islamic law as having greater authority than man made laws and as the numbers grow you will soon see the desire of the Islamic diasporas all over Europe begin to assert their cultural identity ever more vigorously. Take off your blinkers and wise up - it is already happening. And it is all in accordance with Islam.

If it's already happening, then these men are criminals, besides being pedophiles, and deserve to be punished.
You see? there is the law in our European democratic and secular countries, and nobody will ever apply the sharia in my country.

if the British were so weak to concede the creation of sharia civil courts, I can't help it.

 

[Sabour]

There is nothing more authentic than Aisha saying that there is no God except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his messenger. I am not interested in your false labels to things and your biased cherry picking. You are not interested in answers Chev. You are only interested in twisting things

 

[Chev Chelios]

If it's already happening, then these men are criminals, besides being pedophiles, and deserve to be punished.
You see? there is the law in our European democratic and secular countries, and nobody will ever apply the sharia in my country.

if the British were so weak to concede the creation of sharia civil courts, I can't help it.

You yet again conflate things. Underage marriages, in accordance with Shariah law have NOT been sanctioned in Britain - child marriages are still illegal here - this fact is very clear from my post. But this matters not to increasing numbers of Moslems who do not recognise the British penal code which bans it and so it is that this odious practice is on the rise - as allowed in Islamic law. And do not be so sure it is not happening in Italy - it surely is.

 

[Estro Felino]

You yet again conflate things. Underage marriages, in accordance with Shariah law have NOT been sanctioned in Britain - child marriages are still illegal here - this fact is very clear from my post. But this matters not to increasing numbers of Moslems who do not recognise the British penal code which bans it and so it is that this odious practice is on the rise - as allowed in Islamic law. And do not be so sure it is not happening in Italy - it surely is.

Again: both the British and the Italian law condemn pedophiles to jail.
so there is no problem: people will report these marriages and the law will punish the people involved.

 

[Chev Chelios]

There is nothing more authentic than Aisha saying that there is no God except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his messenger. I am not interested in your false labels to things and your biased cherry picking. You are not interested in answers Chev. You are only interested in twisting things

Save your sanctimonious homilies - Islam's perverse virtues are evident by its perverse cultures which are all human rights nightmares. You display the classic Moslem trait of inverting reality for it is you who twists things. See - providing FACTS such as the best evidence for Aisha's age DOES show she is under the age of 9 when Muhammad abuses her - you have provided nothing to refute this - you can't be cause you cannot refute the truth. Facts are not perversions of reality.

I pointed out the God of Islam clearly sanctions sex with children - this is evidenced by the fact he selected Aisha to be Muhammads bride at 6 and allowed him to rape her before she was 9. If your God didn't condone such practices he would never have let his prophet, the perfect example of man, do it would he. This isn't complicated stuff.

I have pointed out that the Koran clearly makes it lawful to have sex with girls who start their periods (some girls are 8 when they start their periods - hey, Aisha was 8 as well!) and this has been codified into Shariah law. I have then pointed out that many Islamic societies propergate the idea of marriage to girls as young as 9 because Muhammad did it and I have shown that the Moslem world contains a disproportionate rate of Child brides. I gave you facts. In response it was YOU who lied and twisted things to shape a view of Islam which simply isn't true. If your faith is so perfect as you claim why do you need to lie about it?

That you have no issue with any of this and are trying to expunge Islam from any culpability in the state of underage marriages in Islam is truly terrifying and it is because of views held by people such as yourself which explains why I now say that there is no moderate Islam - it's followers are all extremeists. The only difference is the degree of extremeness with which the followers of Islam are afflicted. But there is no doubt that any Moslem who follows his faith will hold views we in the West will find extreme - as you have just proved.

 

[Chev Chelios]

Again: both the British and the Italian law condemn pedophiles to jail.
so there is no problem: people will report these marriages and the law will punish the people involved.

With all respect - you are making no sense at all. I have put forward the argument that as a result of the God of Islam and its prophet being co-conspirators in the rape of a child, as well as what is written in the Koran and Sahih Hadith, this has resulted in profound influnces which are at the root of the grave issues with child brides in Islam and the fact the age of menarche has been codified in Islamic law as the age of consent. You seem to think this is not an issue because.....erm.....well.....because in Italy the laws do not recognise Shariah law. Well great - tell that to the Islamic societies the world over that do recognise it where untold numbers of girls suffer! And I guarantee some do so in Italy as well - but hey, the little girls suffer in silence so what does it matter right?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

to--Chev Chelios Member
<
Thank you for thisclear vision...

Do you really think this is not happening in Italy? I assure you it is because Moslems regard Islamic law as having greater authority than man made laws and as the numbers grow you will soon see the desire of the Islamic diasporas all over Europe begin to assert their cultural identity ever more vigorously. Take off your blinkers and wise up - it is already happening. And it is all in accordance with Islam.
================================
Also add
IfMuhammad wasa prophetofGod
The actions were to be the finest and best
And to reject all practices that yikobl God
But Muhammad when he married Aisha did not violate social norms
And he did it like a man
It was a prophetic qualities in his marriage to Aisha
2. some people try to say that the practice of marrying young and young rape
In many States
Yes this is true
But did any one do that, he is a prophet or Messenger of God
The problem in men
For example,Joe?!?!?InItalyhe married a girl of ten years in Italy etc.?!?!?
Here is Joetide??!?Normal human being
No prophecy were not married because he is the Messenger of God
Here, the law will be judged by the rejection or acceptance-.
Problem
The original is in Muhammad
Prophet
And the Messenger of Allah.

 

[morphesium]

I'd like to discuss the marriages of Muhammad to Aisha and Safiyah because quite frankly, I find the acts themselves deeply troubling although what is perhaps even more worrying is the fact that in the modern day, despite instigating such odious beha............

Aisha
I realise that in the case of Aisha, her age is apparently an increasingly contentious issue for followers of Islam however I fail to see why this would be so. This is because Islam's most authentic Hadith's show her age to be 6 at the time of marriage and 8 years 9 months (Islamic lunar calendar) at its consummation and so if this is mainstream Islamic theology then I see no reason for sensitivity around this topic.........

........How do Moslems respond to this? If Moslems wish to support the big claims Islam makes for itself they really do need to start dealing with its very dodgy aspects. I remind you all that a 9 year old girl in 650AD would have been physically more immature than a 9 year old girl of 2014 which lends this troubling aspect of Islam an even more sinister tone.

Safiyah
I am equally curious to examine how the marriage to Muhammad's wife Safiyah is also explained by Moslems. The reason I ask is because the circumstances surrounding it are at complete odds with the idea of consensual marriage. Please correct me if I am wrong but on the day he marries her hadn't he just killed her Father, her Husband and pretty much her entire tribe? Her whole world had just been obliterated by, and on the orders of, one man - thus, I find it hard to believe that a woman would freely marry and sleep with this very man who'd carried this carnage out. And do so on the exact same day these awful events had occurred....... It is clear that the God of Islam and its prophet were co-conspirators in child abuse and the rape and forced marriage of a woman. It cannot be seen in any other way.

Why do you think the ISIS people are behaving so uncivilized? - Because they are brainwashed - to do injustice, to do the killings, to do the all those uncivilized acts of low morale; and they do that all in the name of their God and their prophet.

As far as Islam is concerned, exactly the same thing goes on in almost all part of the world but (maybe) with a little less intensity. It is brainwashing its followers so that they wont think out of the box. They are brainwashing them to be pedophiles and to keep them 2000 years behind our present times. That is why they still keep uncivilized laws like "an eye for an eye", "stoning to death" etc. Even if someones morale make him think that that these are uncivilized, they are pulled back saying Mr. Mohammad is the most perfect man. You must copy live like him .

Now, these people may argue that this is not the case quoting some text from somewhere, but it is the reality that speaks the truth. In the modern world, this is the most aggressive religion and we have countless examples.



Islam is a religion that uses much brain washing to keep it going. Islam will not survive without such kind of brainwashing - it will die.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

I'd like to discuss the marriages of Muhammad to Aisha and Safiyah because quite frankly, I find the acts themselves deeply troubling although what is perhaps even more worrying is the fact that in the modern day, despite instigating such odious behaviour, Moslems can still espouse such a man as perfect and the perfect example. I am very interested to hear from Moslems how these union's are explained to them by Imams and so by extension - how they would explain them to me.

Aisha
I realise that in the case of Aisha, her age is apparently an increasingly contentious issue for followers of Islam however I fail to see why this would be so. This is because Islam's most authentic Hadith's show her age to be 6 at the time of marriage and 8 years 9 months (Islamic lunar calendar) at its consummation and so if this is mainstream Islamic theology then I see no reason for sensitivity around this topic.

When we turn to Muhhamd's marriage to Aisha - a commonly encountered explanation Moslems will use to explain away her tender age is that apparently grown men taking child brides was normal in the 7th Century and so Muhammad was simply a man of his time i.e. he was merely partaking in the standard rituals of the period in which he lived. Well, needless to say this clarification is quite unsatisfactory because it is completely at odds with the claim made that Muhammad is the perfect example to be followed for ALL times.

See - we are not talking about a normal man being governed by cultural norms but rather, the claim is that he was someone being divinely guided by God himself, a God who was setting up the genesis of the perfect and final religion which was to be born out of his very actions and the exact words that he said. Thus - comparing the behaviour of a prophet of God to the behaviour of ordinary imperfect men is an argument I simply cannot accept. Prophets of Gods and fallible humans are simply not equivocal.

So - if this was to be the final religion to be followed for eternity then we must ask why would the God of Islam have selected this particular point of human cultural evolution to be the example to be followed for ever? It stands to reason that IF the God of Islam never actually intended this particular odious example of Muhammad to be followed for eternity then why did the God of Islam never produce a verse in the Koran saying exactly this? You would think that the all knowing God would have forseen the problems future Islamic societies would face and so would have made it absolutely certain that he slipped in a clear/specific verse in the book saying exactly this - but the God of Islam didn't.

And sadly we only need to look at what has happened in cultures shaped by Islam to see the consequences of this strange omittence. We especially need to bear this fact in mind because the Koran is said to be perfect, perfectly clear and has all the answers and so surely this means that Moslems who claim this marriage should be viewed within the context of the time it occured are actually only giving their own perspective of things with no specific theology basis to underpin such perspectives. The Koran (or Hadith) doesn't actually tells Moslems to do this because the book is perfect, perfectly clear and perfect for all times - it is the unchangebale word of God. So - looking at it in this way we come to see that Moslems who use these arguments are therefore altering the un-alterable word of God as written in the Koran! They are directly negating exacty what their faith stands for because they say things that the Koran doesn't say.

Taking this further, if we accept the idea of God as our creator then we accept that he does not make mistakes, he knows the answers yesterday, today and tomorrow - God doesn't learn on the job so to speak. Therefore, we surely also must accept that God's morality isn't governed by timelines and so God's notion of right and wrong is infinite. Thus, we must ask ourselves this - if the God of Islam was ok with Muhammad sleeping with a 9 year old girl in 650AD then we can be sure the God of Islam would be ok with him doing the same in 2014. I fail to see how this can be argued with - but I am willing to be wrong.

How do Moslems respond to this? If Moslems wish to support the big claims Islam makes for itself they really do need to start dealing with its very dodgy aspects. I remind you all that a 9 year old girl in 650AD would have been physically more immature than a 9 year old girl of 2014 which lends this troubling aspect of Islam an even more sinister tone.

Safiyah
I am equally curious to examine how the marriage to Muhammad's wife Safiyah is also explained by Moslems. The reason I ask is because the circumstances surrounding it are at complete odds with the idea of consensual marriage. Please correct me if I am wrong but on the day he marries her hadn't he just killed her Father, her Husband and pretty much her entire tribe? Her whole world had just been obliterated by, and on the orders of, one man - thus, I find it hard to believe that a woman would freely marry and sleep with this very man who'd carried this carnage out. And do so on the exact same day these awful events had occurred!

Therefore, after much consideration I feel that unless it can be demonstrated otherwise, the nature of these 2 marriages, which have had serious societal consequences throughout the ages, support my belief that Muhammad could not of been and should never have ever been deemed "the Perfect Man" nor should the God of Allah be so worthy of such respect. It is clear that the God of Islam and its prophet were co-conspirators in child abuse and the rape and forced marriage of a woman. It cannot be seen in any other way.

Response: In regards to Aisha, you can read the following thread:
Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (Ra) | ReligiousForums.com
There, it is shown that Muhammad only began living with Aisha, not that he had sex with her. Sexual relations began through consent once she reached puberty, which is just, as there is no harm in such a manner.
As for Safiyah (ra), she was a captive of war. Meaning that yes, Muhammad went to war with a tribe and killed her family and husband. Yet the war was instigated by the tribe she belonged to. So Muhammad's actions were justified. Now you may question that a woman would marry a man who killed her family. That is an appropriate question to ask. Yet what must also be considered is the fact that no woman or wife ever says that Muhammad treated them unkindly , nor any teaching of Islam says to use force or force someone into marriage. Thus the context of Muhammad's character and the teachings of Islam itself support the fact that the marriage was consensual, despite the fact that her family was killed by Muhammad.

 

[Chev Chelios]

Response: In regards to Aisha, you can read the following thread:
Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (Ra) | ReligiousForums.com
There, it is shown that Muhammad only began living with Aisha, not that he had sex with her. Sexual relations began through consent once she reached puberty, which is just, as there is no harm in such a manner.
As for Safiyah (ra), she was a captive of war. Meaning that yes, Muhammad went to war with a tribe and killed her family and husband. Yet the war was instigated by the tribe she belonged to. So Muhammad's actions were justified. Now you may question that a woman would marry a man who killed her family. That is an appropriate question to ask. Yet what must also be considered is the fact that no woman or wife ever says that Muhammad treated them unkindly , nor any teaching of Islam says to use force or force someone into marriage. Thus the context of Muhammad's character and the teachings of Islam itself support the fact that the marriage was consensual, despite the fact that her family was killed by Muhammad.

Thank you for the reply.

Ok. No. Aisha had not reached puberty - she was 8 years old ..........but hold on - yes, you are right - Islam does propergate sex with girls who have reached puberty and some girls do commence menarche at 8. But.....did Aisha reach puberty though??? Well, I think the sources show Aisha had not reached puberty, she was playing with dolls when Muhammad raped her which In Islam means she was still a Kid but also - we must bear in mind that girls didn't reach puberty until AGE 16 in 620AD! So no - she was definitely still a kid.

However..........it does not matter. She was still 8!!! So are you seriously saying an 8 year old girl who, lets just say for arguments sake, had started her period - are you really saying she is sexually mature?? You do realise the start of puberty is not the end of it! Puberty is the transition from childhood to adulthood BUT that transition is NOT complete until its COMPLETION. Women who start their period are actually unable to give birth within the first year and even so - we must consider their mental maturity as well as physical.

No 8 year old is ever physically ready to bear a child as she is a child who is still growing herself. That you are ok with girls of this age having sex is the exact reason I am arguing this. No doubt you consider yourself a good guy - yet look at what you are saying!! Moslems think sex with pubescent girls is ok and it really is not.

As for Safiyah - no way. Her tribe did not start war on Muhammad - a few, and I mean a few, broke a treaty but it was a treaty made under duress. Nonetheless Muhammad wiped out the entire tribe anyway. Why? It was only a few who broke the treaty. That you say she was war booty is disgusting. She was a lady who lost her husband and father and was forced to marry the man who did it. He then raped her. Compare this savage behaviour to that of Jesus. My god I cannot believe Moslems say this man is perfect!!!

You then say, rather astonishingly, that no wife spoke ill of Muhammad. Well this isn't surprising seeing as we only have the Moslem accounts of all of this!!! It stands to reason that these accounts will be a bit biased don't you think!!! If a woman has her father and husband beheaded I say with 100% certainty that NO WAY will that woman marry let alone sleep with the murderer let alone do it on the same day!!! And we do not need historical records to come to such a conclusion - we only need mere common sense!

So no - the context actually works against you because given the context of a woman having her her world obliterated - we know, using common sense, that she would not then marry the man who just obliterated it so unjustly.

How on Earth do Moslems believe this bollocks????? And I bet you think you are a Moderate Moslem right???

Your odious beliefs are why I say yet again that there is NO moderate Islam.

Your faith is bogus pal, as is your prophet and your god.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Thank you for the reply.

Ok. No. Aisha had not reached puberty - she was 8 years old ..........but hold on - yes, you are right - Islam does propergate sex with girls who have reached puberty and some girls do commence menarche at 8. But.....did Aisha reach puberty though??? Well, I think the sources show Aisha had not reached puberty, she was playing with dolls when Muhammad raped her which In Islam means she was still a Kid but also - we must bear in mind that girls didn't reach puberty until AGE 16 in 620AD! So no - she was definitely still a kid.

However..........it does not matter. She was still 8!!! So are you seriously saying an 8 year old girl who, lets just say for arguments sake, had started her period - are you really saying she is sexually mature?? You do realise the start of puberty is not the end of it! Puberty is the transition from childhood to adulthood BUT that transition is NOT complete until its COMPLETION. Women who start their period are actually unable to give birth within the first year and even so - we must consider their mental maturity as well as physical.

No 8 year old is ever physically ready to bear a child as she is a child who is still growing herself. That you are ok with girls of this age having sex is the exact reason I am arguing this. No doubt you consider yourself a good guy - yet look at what you are saying!! Moslems think sex with pubescent girls is ok and it really is not.

As for Safiyah - no way. Her tribe did not start war on Muhammad - a few, and I mean a few, broke a treaty but it was a treaty made under duress. Nonetheless Muhammad wiped out the entire tribe anyway. Why? It was only a few who broke the treaty. That you say she was war booty is disgusting. She was a lady who lost her husband and father and was forced to marry the man who did it. He then raped her. Compare this savage behaviour to that of Jesus. My god I cannot believe Moslems say this man is perfect!!!

You then say, rather astonishingly, that no wife spoke ill of Muhammad. Well this isn't surprising seeing as we only have the Moslem accounts of all of this!!! It stands to reason that these accounts will be a bit biased don't you think!!! If a woman has her father and husband beheaded I say with 100% certainty that NO WAY will that woman marry let alone sleep with the murderer let alone do it on the same day!!! And we do not need historical records to come to such a conclusion - we only need mere common sense!

So no - the context actually works against you because given the context of a woman having her her world obliterated - we know, using common sense, that she would not then marry the man who just obliterated it so unjustly.

How on Earth do Moslems believe this bollocks????? And I bet you think you are a Moderate Moslem right???

Your odious beliefs are why I say yet again that there is NO moderate Islam.

Your faith is bogus pal, as is your prophet and your god.

Response: If Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9, then you should be able to provide proof saying so. You have none. Thus debunking yourself. If Muhammad started a war against innocent people, you should be able to provide proof for that as well. We see none. Thus your own weak rebuttal refutes you and supports the fact that Muhammad's marriages were just. Thanks for the assistance.

 

[Estro Felino]

Response: If Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9, then you should be able to provide proof saying so. You have none. Thus debunking yourself. If Muhammad started a war against innocent people, you should be able to provide proof for that as well. We see none. Thus your own weak rebuttal refutes you and supports the fact that Muhammad's marriages were just. Thanks for the assistance.

all right...we are not doubting that. I would never dare criticize the lifestyle of a prophet, given that historical sources can be wrong and besides, I've great respect towards prophets of all religions.

But, talking about the present age, the 21st century and talking about the secular law of all European and American countries, a 40 year old man that wants to marry a 10 year old girl (or a 12 year old girl, it doesn't matter) is a pedophile before the law. And he's a criminal.
and the law of my country will send him to jail, where he belongs.

An adult man who marries a 8 year old girl and on the wedding night he has sex with her, he's a criminal. A potential murderer. Because he can kill her by penetrating her, as happened in Yemen and in other countries.Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist| Reuters
so...how can Muslim people even think they can adapt sharia to our laws? In my country no Muslim will ever be allowed to apply sharia, because sharia is worth less than zero before the law of my country.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

all right...we are not doubting that. I would never dare criticize the lifestyle of a prophet, given that historical sources can be wrong and besides, I've great respect towards prophets of all religions.

And you said that Muhammad is a prophet
Is marriageofboysisthe morality ofthe Prophet
The termProphetmeanperfecthumanitarian
Withinthe fewerrors

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

sorry who can tell you Muhammad is a prophet????????
Is marriage of boys is the morality of the Prophet???
The The term Prophet mean perfect
the humanitarian
With in the few errors

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Response: If Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9, then you should be able to provide proof saying so. You have none. Thus debunking yourself. If Muhammad started a war against innocent people, you should be able to provide proof for that as well. We see none. Thus your own weak rebuttal refutes you and supports the fact that Muhammad's marriages were just. Thanks for the assistance.

No--this --and strange-
Islamic books, Islamic history and the Koran
And now it says where is the Guide
Do you want tosee Mohammed -with thirteen -moons soinc -!!redible!!
Okay--I give you -the following example؟؟
-The dad married my mom before 80 years
What is the evidence for the marriage of my mom؟؟؟؟
That written documents!!
-And also your father married your mother-.
What is the -evidenc eon their marriage-a.
Is the written document-.!!-
Is this true---or not-.
Same situation with the marriage of Aisha and other


It documents transferred from the Muslims
Over a thousand and four hundred years
And you want to cancel all day.؟؟؟؟؟ظ
Christ said to them really does not see eyes