Muslim prayer versus Christian prayer in the NFL

[lewisnotmiller]

Okay, so I almost didn't post this, since I have kinda come to the conclusion that this is a non-issue.
But then I thought;

1) Others here might disagree, and I'd be interested why
2) Others outside these forums are not all of that opinion, which raises some questions.

The topic at hand is Husain Abdullah being issued a penalty after scoring a touchdown in the Chiefs - Pats game last Monday night.

My initial take when hearing about this was scorn/disbelief. A Muslim player cops a 15 yard penalty for dropping to his knees and praying, when Christian players regularly do this without sanction.

Tim Tebow spent more time on one knee praying than he did actually playing (well...almost...)

For those unfamiliar with what happened, please refer to this Youtube vid...
[youtube]QI8XW23gzBA[/youtube]

Anyway, on reflection, I changed my opinion a little, as I learnt the following;
1) The NFL came out and declared that the penalty shouldn't have been issued. Fair enough, then...the referee made a mistake.
2) Abdullah himself came out very calmly and said that he thought he was penalised for the slide before the prayer, which is probably (technically) against the rules, actually. He didn't think he was penalised for the prayer itself.
3) The Chiefs themselves have said that their understanding is he was penalised for the slide.
4) If I'm the ref, fair chance I'm throwing the flag before I even realise he's praying, rather than celebrating (per league rules). I do think rescinding the flag once it was realised he was praying would have been sensible, but still...

So, my take is that he shouldn't have been penalised, per league rules. NFL has said it was a mistake. He contributed to the confusion a little by sliding into the prayer, but it seems like a quiet phone call during the week to the Chiefs to remind players prayer is allowed, sliding, etc is not would have been the best course of action.

So my initial scorn/disbelief has gone. I think the Chiefs and Abdullah both handled this well (Abdullah in particular) and whilst the NFL could have been a little clearer, it did okay too.
Still not sure what I'M allowed to do when I score my first NFL touchdown, but that's okay.

 

[Sunstone]

Crazy situation. I'm glad it turned out not to be the blatant act of discrimination that it at first seemed to be.

 

[paarsurrey]

If one achieves a success one should be humble and one should offer thanks giving to G-d; but there is no compulsion to do it immediately and hurriedly. One could do it after a little while. The rules should be obeyed.

Regards

 

[BSM1]

The big problem, as I see it, is having both end zones pointing to Mecca.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The big problem, as I see it, is having both end zones pointing to Mecca.

Bwahahahaha!!!!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If one achieves a success one should be humble and one should offer thanks giving to G-d; but there is no compulsion to do it immediately and hurriedly. One could do it after a little while. The rules should be obeyed.

Regards

Agree that the rules should be obeyed. But whilst the rule itself is pretty clear...

Rule 12, Section 3, Article 1(d)
...Players are prohibited from
engaging in any celebrations while on the ground....

...officials have been told to allow religious celebrations for quite a while.
Anyway, like I said, all appears to have been handled fairly, which is good, and Abdullah handled it very nicely.

 

[Vinayaka]

When athletes pray for a win, over the long haul their prayers (collectively) are only answered 50% of the time. Weird.

 

[HonestJoe]

...officials have been told to allow religious celebrations for quite a while.

One rule for the religious and one rule for everyone else (and the confusion over this incident suggests when they said "religious", they were only thinking "Christian")? An interesting contrast to this "War against Christianity!" claims I keep hearing about.

 

[Draka]

So...if some player were to strip naked and worship skyclad in the endzone...that cool?

 

[StarryNightshade]

Anyway, on reflection, I changed my opinion a little, as I learnt the following;
1) The NFL came out and declared that the penalty shouldn't have been issued. Fair enough, then...the referee made a mistake.
2) Abdullah himself came out very calmly and said that he thought he was penalised for the slide before the prayer, which is probably (technically) against the rules, actually. He didn't think he was penalised for the prayer itself.
3) The Chiefs themselves have said that their understanding is he was penalised for the slide.
4) If I'm the ref, fair chance I'm throwing the flag before I even realise he's praying, rather than celebrating (per league rules). I do think rescinding the flag once it was realised he was praying would have been sensible, but still...

Huh, I'm quite surprised at how well this situation is (seemingly) being handled.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

When athletes pray for a win, over the long haul their prayers (collectively) are only answered 50% of the time. Weird.

To be fair to Abdullah, he and his brother have walked the walk as well as talked the talk.

Pilgrimmage to Mecca cost Abdullah a year of his career, and no guarantee of being resigned once he was back in the States.
His brother (Hamza)

I am skeptical of most athletes who bring God up in press conferences, etc. Even in this case, Abdullah admitted it was a premeditated act, but it seems like it was for the right reasons...I think...
(can be hard to tell from this side of the world...lol)

 

[BSM1]

So...if some player were to strip naked and worship skyclad in the endzone...that cool?

This would probably save the WNBA.

 

[Man of Faith]

When athletes pray for a win, over the long haul their prayers (collectively) are only answered 50% of the time. Weird.

I've played sports and my son has played sports at a private Christian school and in most instances athletes don't pray to win, they pray to have a good game, do their best, for safety for all, even the other team and to be good witnesses in their actions. They do however sometimes thank God publicly if they do well, such as make a touchdown, but I would say most do it silently. They thank God for their ability to play sports and their lives.

 

[Apple Sugar]

The exception to this penalty is exactly what was being done by this Muslim player. He slid on his knees and then entered into prayer isn't exactly a violation either given how many players slide, roll, jump and land on their feet in the end zone. Are those penalty worthy as well?
If a player lept over a line of defenders , landed on his feet, and then pointed to the sky to thank his god, would that be a penalty?

Teebow was one of the most expressive Christians in the league during his time on the field and would have never been penalized for it no matter where he landed. This Muslim did nothing wrong.

Crazy situation. I'm glad it turned out not to be the blatant act of discrimination that it at first seemed to be.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

So...if some player were to strip naked and worship skyclad in the endzone...that cool?

*laughs*

In seriousness, it's always the problem. This allowance of religious expression isn't formally in the rules. No celebration is allowed.
However, refs have been told to allow religious expression. To their credit, near as I can tell, this was very carefully worded to be 'religious expression' rather than 'Christian expression', although the majority is Christian.

Still, next time someone crosses the touchdown line and sacrifices an opponent to Quetzalcoatl, I'm pretty sure they'll get a 15 yard penalty, regardless of how legitimate their religious belief is.

So let's assume you can thank whomever you like, as long as it doesn't make the population uncomfortable. That seems to be how these things work in practice.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The exception to this penalty is exactly what was being done by this Muslim player. He slid on his knees and then entered into prayer isn't exactly a violation either given how many players slide, roll, jump and land on their feet in the end zone. Are those penalty worthy as well?
If a player lept over a line of defenders , landed on his feet, and then pointed to the sky to thank his god, would that be a penalty?

Strictly speaking? No. If the slide, roll, jump or land are part of the play, it's all good. If they're part of a pre-prayer celebration, they're not good.

In reality, as long as people aren't using 'prayer' as a way around the celebration rule (which I in NO WAY think Abdullah was) you'd hope common sense would prevail.
Happily, it seems like it did on this occasion, despite the initial penalty flag.

Teebow was one of the most expressive Christians in the league during his time on the field and would have never been penalized for it no matter where he landed. This Muslim did nothing wrong.

Agreed on both counts.
Abdullah was also sensible enough to discuss the issue rationally with the media, and not make it a religious issue (given that the NFL clearly stated the ref was in the wrong). This was to his credit, since there are always nut cases sitting on the sideline wanting to turn these things into the end of civilzation if given a chance.
Teebow's over-the-top expression always struck me as disingenuous, but that could be unfair. Just not how things are done in Australia, mostly.

 

[At The Left Hand ov God]

Still, next time someone crosses the touchdown line and sacrifices an opponent to Quetzalcoatl, I'm pretty sure they'll get a 15 yard penalty, regardless of how legitimate their religious belief is.

Well geez thanks! There goes my dream of being the only Aztec NFL player..

 

[Vinayaka]

I've played sports and my son has played sports at a private Christian school and in most instances athletes don't pray to win, they pray to have a good game, do their best, for safety for all, even the other team and to be good witnesses in their actions. They do however sometimes thank God publicly if they do well, such as make a touchdown, but I would say most do it silently. They thank God for their ability to play sports and their lives.

Yeah I know, and it makes sense ... also not getting injured is a very fair prayer.

 

[BSM1]

Well geez thanks! There goes my dream of being the only Aztec NFL player..

I can see the call now: (Ref raking his hand back and forth across his neck) "Beheading..fifteen yards..."

 

[Apple Sugar]

Strictly speaking? No. If the slide, roll, jump or land are part of the play, it's all good. If they're part of a pre-prayer celebration, they're not good.

In reality, as long as people aren't using 'prayer' as a way around the celebration rule (which I in NO WAY think Abdullah was) you'd hope common sense would prevail.
Happily, it seems like it did on this occasion, despite the initial penalty flag.

As long as it all turned out well that's what matters.
I admire his courage in giving the prayer in the first place. People are so use to seeing Christians express themselves. A Muslim giving thanks, especially now, is not the usual but it is his right and I respect him for exercising that in this case.

Agreed on both counts.
Abdullah was also sensible enough to discuss the issue rationally with the media, and not make it a religious issue (given that the NFL clearly stated the ref was in the wrong). This was to his credit, since there are always nut cases sitting on the sideline wanting to turn these things into the end of civilzation if given a chance.
Teebow's over-the-top expression always struck me as disingenuous, but that could be unfair. Just not how things are done in Australia, mostly.

Teebow's antics always struck me as a distraction away from his failure on the field overall. As if he could arrive at a fan base and popularity that would distract from what was a mediocre player.
Now he's out of the game. Maybe he should have prayed to be more talented and realized scripture frowns on public prayer displays. (Matthew 6:5-7)