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Muslims brotherhood to put Israel-Egypt peace pact to referendum

elmarna

Well-Known Member
It would be best to turn to the truths than political propaganda.
I have spoken to people in Fgypt. While they are not political in nature they do not support what is proposed by what you are listening to.
They support peace and the concerns center on the country able to represent a better life and a good way to see to the needs of the people.
Perhaps getting in contact with those in Israel and Egypt will give you a better look at what is the thoughts and feelings that are taking form than the media and the political arena that has opinions that may only upset you and call on concerns unessesary.
 

Shermana

Heretic
It would be best to turn to the truths than political propaganda.
I have spoken to people in Fgypt. While they are not political in nature they do not support what is proposed by what you are listening to.
They support peace and the concerns center on the country able to represent a better life and a good way to see to the needs of the people.
Perhaps getting in contact with those in Israel and Egypt will give you a better look at what is the thoughts and feelings that are taking form than the media and the political arena that has opinions that may only upset you and call on concerns unessesary.

We shall see how the Referendum turns out. I'm sure there are people who want peace, but I wouldn't readily accept that the people you spoke to represent the majority.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Muslim Brotherhood May Disband Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty | TheBlaze.com

Should Israel be getting ready for war? Was the Muslim brotherhood bluffing about maintaining the peace? Why the referendum?

The MB has declared they will never accept the State of Israel as "legitimate". Is it "fearmongering" to suggest that Israel would be best served to get ready for a massive Egyptian invasion?
It will be a stupid move by the MB. it will mean several things, one of them is are they really up for the challenge? will this new Egyptian government be able to promote itself as legitimate in the world when it cancel its peace treaty with Israel, which was signed in 1979? will it be able to deal with the political and diplomatic effects of this?
another thing, which I personally find important. is that it will show the Arab states as having very little credibility. Egypt is considered the most influential Arab country. when they don't uphold peace treaties of this magnitude, and when countries around the world see so many regime changes in Arab states, it brings a very grim concern. mainly, that whatever you sign today, and whatever sacrifices you make for signing today, would be null tomorrow when a government is toppled, when a revolution or a civil war breaks out so easily.

the only country I can think of that has not seen regime change, revolution, or civil war in the region is Israel. which is the only country in the region who all this time upheld a multi party democratic system.
Israel handed the Sinai peninsula to Egypt in the peace agreements, I think this will be a blow to international efforts for peace. and unfortunately will show an unpredictable and grim side to Arab countries.

On other news, Syrian opposition said it will accept the peace initiative while still attempting to regain the Golan Heights. Syrian opposition also said the it will also likely end its alliance with Iran.
it seems that there are several changes developing in the region, not without a sense of irony.
 
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elmarna

Well-Known Member
I understand this. I realize politics and policies of ruling factions do not always represent the majority as well!
That was proven in the reshiem og Hudan Hussen! The mojority of the people did not supprt him and he slaughtered those who opposed him.
I do understand that with the election the peoples hopes are not looking for a leadership to do what is being considered!
I can tell you that they voted to clean up the issues that were considered wrong and had been left unchecked by the last leadership. 2 that come to mind is prostitution and homosexuallity.
 

Sajdah

Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
I don't see anything stupid or wrong with putting the peace treaty to vote... if Israel really respected that treaty they wouldn't be worried that much of such a step..But the fact is that Israel wants one side to respect the treaty which is Egypt of course and at the same time Israel has the right to violate it as it wishes without refusal or questioning from the other side...So I don't understand why should we hold a treaty respected only by us and violated by the other side? Doesn't it mean that Israel is the one that wants to cancel it?!

Anyway, I think that no political party in Egypt including the brotherhood wants to push the country into war with Israel, so I believe that the referendum would be used as a sort of pressure to edit some articles concerning the situation in Sinai and to let Israel grasp the fact that Egypt of Mubarak is over, and no violations would be accepted anymore!
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
I doubt they'd go to war with Israel. With the civil unrest and recooperating from it all. If there was any advice given to MB, id say build your country up for your people to better your people.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
But the fact is that Israel wants one side to respect the treaty which is Egypt of course and at the same time Israel has the right to violate it as it wishes ...
That is an interesting 'fact'. Could you please demonstrate where Israel has violated the treaty as it wishes?
 

Bismillah

Submit
Caladan said:
It will be a stupid move by the MB. it will mean several things, one of them is are they really up for the challenge? will this new Egyptian government be able to promote itself as legitimate in the world when it cancel its peace treaty with Israel, which was signed in 1979? will it be able to deal with the political and diplomatic effects of this?
Sorry no, this is only a move to institute a referendum to reflect the opinion of the majority as Egypt is now transitioning into a democracy. Something that was absent under Sadat's regime. It is for the people to decide the much imposed foreign relations with Israel, under Mubarak, which has long been a source of resentment for many Egyptians.

Secondly as the MB spokesman has said
Al-Bayoumi emphasized that the Islamist movement would respect all of the international agreements to which Egypt is signatory, adding, however, that each side had the right to review the peace deal, and that the Egyptian people have yet to speak their mind.
They are not militarizing the Sinai and they are not closing off international waterways despite what idiots and warmongerers are trying to implicate.

another thing, which I personally find important. is that it will show the Arab states as having very little credibility.
No treaties forced through by dictators have very little credibility in a democratic Egypt.
Egypt is considered the most influential Arab country.
lol wat Either you're stuck in the age of Nasserism or you've been watching too many Egyptian dramas
when they don't uphold peace treaties of this magnitude, and when countries around the world see so many regime changes in Arab states, it brings a very grim concern.
It's only a treaty of great magnitude because Egypt was the first country to recognize Israel. Egyptians have the right to revise that. It reflects the age of American back dictators in support of Israel and is something that needs to be addressed.
mainly, that whatever you sign today, and whatever sacrifices you make for signing today, would be null tomorrow when a government is toppled, when a revolution or a civil war breaks out so easily.
Weren't you talking about how these revolutions would never succeed early on? Never the less yes, the long awaited time has come that both Arab leaders and Western powers acknowledge the power of public opinion. Gone are the days of dealing with monarchs and dictators ignoring the sentiments of the common people.
the only country I can think of that has not seen regime change, revolution, or civil war in the region is Israel. which is the only country in the region who all this time upheld a multi party democratic system.
We'll see how long that lasts in the WB and Gaza if the unity deal fails and how long it lasts with increasing conflicts between ultra-orthodox Israeli Jews

The Ultra-Orthodox in Israel: A Clash of Cultures in the Holy Land - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

And didn't they recently dress up with Holocaust Stars of David? The increasing numbers of Ultra-Orthodox is in a race with the number of Arabs. I, along with many others, wonder what will happen when the Palestinian demographic bomb hits and Israel can no longer call itself a Jewish state solely based on simply numbers.

Israel handed the Sinai peninsula to Egypt in the peace agreements, I think this will be a blow to international efforts for peace. and unfortunately will show an unpredictable and grim side to Arab countries.
And what exactly does that have to do with what's at hand? Is the MB militarizing the Sinai, no they are not.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Tricky issue....

I generally don't think that if the MB outs the treaty that it means they want war... more likely they want a political leaver to use when dealing with Israel and political points from their neighbors.

Having said that, I totally understand why Israelis would be very nervous about this move.

wa:do
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Sorry no, this is only a move to institute a referendum to reflect the opinion of the majority as Egypt is now transitioning into a democracy. Something that was absent under Sadat's regime. It is for the people to decide the much imposed foreign relations with Israel, under Mubarak, which has long been a source of resentment for many Egyptians.
The same people who favour the MB. good chances they will favour their stance of 'not recognizing Israel under any circumstances'.

Secondly as the MB spokesman has said They are not militarizing the Sinai and they are not closing off international waterways despite what idiots and warmongerers are trying to implicate.
Somehow, non of this is comforting. if they truly nullify the agreements with Israel it will speak volumes. and will reflect on the region.
for example as an Israeli, it will turn me to the position of not returning the Golan Heights, because as far as I know a new Syrian regime might nullify any agreement which includes the Golan Heights. my family fought in the Sinai peninsula, and our government returned the peninsula in order to establish an agreement with Egypt. it might be very arbitrary for you, and apparently to many Egyptians, but not to us as Israelis.

No treaties forced through by dictators have very little credibility in a democratic Egypt. lol wat Either you're stuck in the age of Nasserism or you've been watching too many Egyptian dramasIt's only a treaty of great magnitude because Egypt was the first country to recognize Israel. Egyptians have the right to revise that.
Really? because Egypt is considered very powerful in the Arab League and the African Union. Al Jazeera seems to agree with me with calling Egypt "the most important and influential Arab country".

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/06/201169141952438611.html

I'm surprised you know so little about this. considering that except one case, it is always an Egyptian who is chief in the Arab League.

It reflects the age of American back dictators in support of Israel and is something that needs to be addressed.Weren't you talking about how these revolutions would never succeed early on?
What I was talking about actually happened. early on I said that the MB would gain its momentum because of it, and this is what happened, the youth who started the revolution did not succeed in what they aimed for.
here is what ElBaradei has to say about this: "Egypt's top reformist leader said Sunday the liberal youth behind the country's uprising have been "decimated" in parliamentary elections dominated by Islamists and expressed concern about the rise of hard-line religious elements advocating extremist ideas such as banning women from driving.
Mohamed ElBaradei, a Nobel Prize laureate and possible presidential candidate, said he hopes moderate Islamists will rein in the extremists and send a reassuring message to the world that Egypt will not go down an ultraconservative religious path.
"The youth feel let down. They don't feel that any of the revolution's goals have been achieved," ElBaradei told The Associated Press in an interview on the same day electoral authorities announced that Islamist parties captured an overwhelming majority of votes in the first round of elections last week. "They got decimated," he said, adding the youth failed to unify and form "one essential critical mass."

Youth of Egypt's revolution 'decimated' in vote - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com

Never the less yes, the long awaited time has come that both Arab leaders and Western powers acknowledge the power of public opinion.
See above. which public opinion are you talking about? the MB had only a little role in the revolutions. they simply benefited most out of them.

Gone are the days of dealing with monarchs and dictators ignoring the sentiments of the common people.
I hope your optimism is not misplaced. aren't you expecting too much? the people who began this revolution in Egypt hoped for the same. now they seem to be 'decimated'.

We'll see how long that lasts in the WB and Gaza if the unity deal fails and how long it lasts with increasing conflicts between ultra-orthodox Israeli Jews

The Ultra-Orthodox in Israel: A Clash of Cultures in the Holy Land - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

And didn't they recently dress up with Holocaust Stars of David? The increasing numbers of Ultra-Orthodox is in a race with the number of Arabs. I, along with many others, wonder what will happen when the Palestinian demographic bomb hits and Israel can no longer call itself a Jewish state solely based on simply numbers.
Arabs have said many times that Israel will cease to exist because of Arab overpopulation. in fact they have said it for quite a while. but not only it did not happen, but factors such as education actually decreased the size of the Palestinian Arab household. furthermore the strategy of overcrowding yourself enough to gain control has always been ****** and only made the people who overpopulated get into more hardships.
as for the issue with the ultra-orthodox in Israel at the moment, do you even know what this is about? do you see anyone directing a revolution against the Israeli government? there is no logic whatsoever in comparing it to the situation in Arab countries where tens of thousands have been killed. the Israeli situation is a case in which the secular public and many religious people with them protest against another segment of the public.

And what exactly does that have to do with what's at hand? Is the MB militarizing the Sinai, no they are not.
It's pretty tragic the way you trivialize this. the Sinai was returned in an agreement. the nation who may nullify such an agreement loses credibility. and like I said it will effect the region and the credibility of the Arabs in the world at large.

however, I will comment that Iran, and not Israel may be considered as the country who threatens the Sunni balance of power in the middle east. and nations such as Saudi Arabia, gulf states, and Egypt and other Sunni countries with them will still maintain the tensions with Iran which have built up.
 
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Sajdah

Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
lol wat Either you're stuck in the age of Nasserism or you've been watching too many Egyptian dramas
Excuse me brother, but I don't understand what is funny here? Don't you think that Egypt plays an important role in the palestinian case from the very beginning?
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Excuse me brother, but I don't understand what is funny here? Don't you think that Egypt plays an important role in the palestinian case from the very beginning?

IMO it did play an important part,it exported the MB to Palestine along with “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory),what a visionary this Guy was.
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
How about Egypt secures its borders so that no crazy people get into Israel to kill some jews?


I know that would be very counter productive but its just an idea.

- Egypt secures borders
- no one crazy gets into Israel
- no egyptian soldiers or police get caught in the firefight
Sounds to reasonable and a lot of responsibility.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Wha..?
Uhm East Germany secured their border pretty good. And the same goes to the still existing North Korea.

Iam not really sure what you mean.
Not really hundreds of people defected/are still defecting from both.
Individuals are always more determined than governments.

roughly 40,000 defected over the 20 years after the Berlin Wall was built, from East Germany (before that they lost more than 3 million people)... and nearly the same number have defected from North Korea.
Eastern Bloc emigration and defection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
North Korean defectors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What makes them seem like really secure borders is the fact they kill anyone they catch trying.... clearly this doesn't stop people.

wa:do
 
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