I don't think you're attacking Islamic culture either. I think we're all questioning the idea that it's ever acceptable to use physical force on a woman regardless of culture.
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Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"
- Thread starter Draka
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I don't think you're attacking Islamic culture either. I think we're all questioning the idea that it's ever acceptable to use physical force on a woman regardless of culture.
Photonic
Ad astra!
Oh I'm all for learning why, but knowing won't give me any sympathy for it.
Good point, I think we will both however have sympathy for those who have to endure.
Draka
Wonder Woman
Thank you.
Me Myself
Back to my username
I am starting to resent the way you look at this "femenity" and "masculinity" thing
I don't think resolving things via slaps turns me int a man. I certainly don't think accepting to be slapped quietly should turn anyone into a proper woman.
You say beating a wife is okay, but Jesus peace be upon him said that if someone slaps you in the cheek, you give him the other one.
I wouldnever see this person slapping a woman when he says that, and I would certanly beieve he is one of the persons that ever walked this earth with the major rights to be called a man.
No one is less of a man for resorting to un-violent ways of solving problems. To solve problems by slapping sounds to me moe like a cave-man or a child, but definetely not a man.
I don't think resolving things via slaps turns me int a man. I certainly don't think accepting to be slapped quietly should turn anyone into a proper woman.
You say beating a wife is okay, but Jesus peace be upon him said that if someone slaps you in the cheek, you give him the other one.
I wouldnever see this person slapping a woman when he says that, and I would certanly beieve he is one of the persons that ever walked this earth with the major rights to be called a man.
No one is less of a man for resorting to un-violent ways of solving problems. To solve problems by slapping sounds to me moe like a cave-man or a child, but definetely not a man.
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
My appologies if I came on a bit too strong. I have many Islamic friends across the globe and I often find myself becoming defensive, sometimes when it is unwarrented.
Still, it seems to me that you have singled out Islam to focus your dislike of the practice of a husband disciplines his wife. This is a practice that is global and one we are no where close to being innocent of. You could just as easily have addressed this thread as Hispanic Catholics: Keeping the wife "in line". But then you would look like a racists, even though the practice of discipling the wife is very much alive in Hispanic culture. African American culture is also rife with spousal abuse. Red necks do it too.
So it appears to me that because a Muslim from North Africa mentioned that he disciplines his wife as per his culture, you decide to bring down the wrath of the West on Muslims. Still, I suppose I could have over reacted.
Draka
Wonder Woman
I'm supposing you did indeed over-react. You had been in the prior thread which caused the birth of this one. You know full well why this was addressed to Muslims as it was a Muslim who stated that physically "correcting" a wife is an accepted practice in Islam. So I put it to Muslims to discuss whether this was a commonly accepted practice in Islam or not. Not just Muslims from "the west" but Muslims in general as we have Muslims from all over on this forum. If you had bothered to read my OP you would have realized that I did indeed mention that the practice of "keeping a wife in line" physically is done by various other people in different faiths, and even non-faith (atheists), but that I didn't know of a religion that actually had it as an accepted tenet that that kind of "correction" was a directive, or just an accepted practice. I wasn't even bringing up regions or the like. I've been discussing the religion. Not Africa, or Egypt, or even the US. Islam, and what it says about the subject at hand. Here is the OP again in case you missed it.
Draka, this is an eye-opening and sad thread. Thank you. I hope that at least one less slap happens because of it. People raised in cultures where it is acceptable need to know that it's not that way everywhere else, and may just change because of it. I've had enough experiences with immigrants to Canada to know that when they see people behaving in less violent ways, they do respond to it, eventually changing theirs as well. http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/pamphlets/stop_war_in_home.html
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Draka
Wonder Woman
Thank you. I hope that this frank discussion can affect those who may think right now that slapping or otherwise striking their partner is acceptable. It doesn't have to be that way. There are other ways to handle rifts in a relationship. Hitting can only widen that rift, not fix it. Perhaps, at least, for those who may justify their belief with what they believe Islam says about it will see from our many Muslim members here how Islam doesn't really accept that practice.
Now if only we can find more ways to reach others of other faiths and walks of life of the shame that is spousal/partner abuse. Nothing is truly resolved by a slap (or any strike harder).
Me Myself
Back to my username
1-As a hispanic catholic I must tell you I have no idea what you are talking about.
2- I would be surprised to hear what costume of CATHOLICISM has anything to do with wife beating. Do tell.
Bismillah
Submit
This is a good question for which there are three answers, to the best of my knowledge.Enlighten said:
1. The women is not allowed to retaliate placing her at an inferior place in comparison to the man.
2. This indicates that a women should seek consultation for nuhshaz or marriage altering ill-will whereas a man may beat a women for nuhshaz. This does not make logical sense in the narrative and thus is further proof that the root word drb means not to beat but separate and reconcile just as a women is encouraged to separate and reconcile.
3. That the beating is a punishment that can be applied to both men and women and carried out not by a subjective and emotionally biased spouse but by an objective third party Shari'ah qadi or judge. This punishment is viewed as having largely ended by the 10th century by Khalid Abou Fadl.
You can find more detail for all three in my earlier post in this thread here
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
the following link has a more detailed islamic explanation about verse 34 of chapter 4 that speaks about 'beating the wife' and it answers most of the questions raised in this thread if not all.
A Commentary on The Quran, Sura 4 Verse 34 by Dr. Ahmad Shafaat
A Commentary on The Quran, Sura 4 Verse 34 by Dr. Ahmad Shafaat
That article still allows for beating one's wife "to save the marriage".
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
what exactly is your definition of the word 'beating'?
Any time a person raises his/her hand to another person and strikes them with it (whether it has a miswak in it or not) is beating. Why is it necessary? Why can't we accept the other version where it says to separate?
I can't think of a single reason that a man NEEDS to beat his wife. None. If she cheats, leave her.
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Not wife beating, wife discipline. Many Hispanics here in the US believe that the man of a family has a right to discipline his wife just as he disciplines his children. The OP is not about spousal abuse but what level of discipline a man is aloud to use on his wife. What's your "rule of thumb"?
Where I still have concerns over a woman being subordinate, thank you for pointing me to the earlier point in the thread (apologies for missing but you will agree this has been a busy thread). Would it not be easier to change the meaning to separate to avoid confusion like we have had throughout this thread where some think that this means "slap" or "strike" and will in turn perhaps use this "right" on their wife?
God creat Adam and then creat from him Eve , because he feel lonely .
God creat female and male in everything to let our gendre continous .
all are human 100% for him , there is not different . except in the role in this life . we don't have the same role .
the different i said before ,are not minimize the value of the woman for the men or for God .
it's your turn to respond to my all points .
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thats my point , that i could not how to explain it
yes this only goal for beating unsurdonite wife , if the husband uses this option as in wrong way (always beat with or without reason ), God will punish him .
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
I know westerners think that Muslim women are like submissive little slave just subnitting to a beating but do you realize that most Muslim women are very strong and that they have minds of their own? Most Muslim women I know would never submit to a beating and their families wouldn't let them either. I n fact beat a Muslim woman and you'll have to deal with her family...and that's not a nice thing
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