Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Debater Slayer]

not for me, but if you're happy with that then...oh well

That's fine, I just hope it answered the OP.

 

[Draka]

So, DS, would you say there is any acceptable reason or time for a husband to strike his wife according to your understanding of Islam?

 

[not nom]

Hahahahahaha! Where can I subscribe to this Revoltipedia you speak of?

I was looking this up for a laugh actually, but hey, it's actually informative:

Feminism - Television Tropes & Idioms

 

[Debater Slayer]

So, DS, would you say there is any acceptable reason or time for a husband to strike his wife according to your understanding of Islam?

No, there isn't, as evidenced by the Hadith I posted. "Striking" is always unacceptable.

I wonder though, what do you mean when you use the word "strike"?

 

[not nom]

No, there isn't, as evidenced by the Hadith I posted. "Striking" is always unacceptable.

I wonder though, what do you mean when you use the word "strike"?

well, more than slapping.

but slapping can still hurt like **** and is just as humiliating, so that's no real win?

 

[Draka]

No, there isn't, as evidenced by the Hadith I posted. "Striking" is always unacceptable.

I wonder though, what do you mean when you use the word "strike"?

To hit (or strong-arm) in any way as to scold or punish. Playing around, or even "bedroom games" people may play are not the issue. To slap, smack, punch, shove, strong grip, bite, or any other action with the intent of hurting and causing to fear. Those are the actions I am referring to.

 

[Debater Slayer]

To hit (or strong-arm) in any way as to scold or punish. Playing around, or even "bedroom games" people may play are not the issue. To slap, smack, punch, shove, strong grip, bite, or any other action with the intent of hurting and causing to fear. Those are the actions I am referring to.

No strong physical contact at all is allowed, no, and especially not slapping/smacking/punching.

 

[Draka]

well, more than slapping.

but slapping can still hurt like **** and is just as humiliating, so that's no real win?

Oh, I include slapping. A good hard slap across the face is more than just painful, as you said, it is humiliating as well. Physical abuse alone isn't all that is done when it is used. The psychological damage is present as well. When done enough a victim may begin to feel that it is their lot in life, that they deserve it. that truly messes with a person's head and can be far harder to get over than the physical abuse itself. Reminds me of something GO asked,...why a woman would accept being hit if she didn't want it? Simple, because she's been so downgraded and forced to believe that's what she deserves in life that she doesn't even think about standing up for herself. There really isn't much left of herself to stand up for at that point.

 

[beenie]

Why does one have to physically dominate the other at all? (I'm not talking about sex games either)

In all seriousness, I'm frustrated with the idea of "disciplining" one's wife? "Obedience", "discipline", "subordinate"...these are not words one uses with their life partners. This is one area I really struggle with, and have for a very long time.

I don't care that the Bible says the same thing. It's bothersome no matter which holy book it's in.

 

[Draka]

No strong physical contact at all is allowed, no, and especially not slapping/smacking/punching.

Perhaps that should be explained to others within your religion that claim otherwise.

 

[Draka]

Why does one have to physically dominate the other at all? (I'm not talking about sex games either)

In all seriousness, I'm frustrated with the idea of "disciplining" one's wife? "Obedience", "discipline", "subordinate"...these are not words one uses with their life partners. This is one area I really struggle with, and have for a very long time.

I don't care that the Bible says the same thing. It's bothersome no matter which holy book it's in.

I don't get it either. If someone wants a being subordinate to them that will do what they're told and so on...get a dog, not a spouse. I'm a firm believer you can't honestly love someone and abuse them at the same time.

 

[not nom]

"Obedience", "discipline", "subordinate"...these are not words one uses with their life partners. This is one area I really struggle with, and have for a very long time.

I don't care that the Bible says the same thing. It's bothersome no matter which holy book it's in.

here's something I kept as a quote (with permission ^^) from a post on a different forum on a similar subject:

When God created Eve ~ He took one of Adam's ribs. I don't think this was a random choice of bones. A man's ribs are tucked in and under his arms ~ so that a woman will be close to a man's heart. She is close so that her man can wrap his arms around her and keep her safe and protected. Also when they walk ~ they are in harmony step by step ~ meant to walk as one.. to become one flesh. From this position a woman can hear and communicate with her man with embrace him in all things ~ and vice versa.

Woman was not made from a bone in his foot so that she would be lower than her mate, and not meant to be stepped on. If (and that is a huge if) a man assumes that protective position and acquiesces to God Almighty while holding that position ~ his qualities will flow through him to his mate.. If his mate feels truly safe with him ~ the natural acquiescence BETWEEN the two become a silent song that their hearts sing together ~ thereby bringing glory to God Almighty. They truly have become one as God intended. There is NO room for violence or hard handedness when this union is achieved ~ because the man is too close to deliver a blow and she is too close to receive one. Both acquiesce to God Almighty in harmony.. and no man has the right to bring this asunder.

 

[Gharib]

I have seen the argument here, by a Muslim, that it is acceptable for a husband to slap or "softly" hit his wife if she is "wrong". That it makes her feel more "feminine" and that it proves she is with a "man". That this is acceptable within Islam.

Is this stance something actually accepted within Islam? That physical punishment of a wife by her husband is the norm and okay? Or is this a fringe thought held only by some Muslims?

I know that men of all different faiths, and non-faith, will sometimes treat their wives and GFs like this, but I don't believe it is actually a held and accepted tenet of any other religion that I know of that this kind of behavior is okay.

So, can some Muslims here please address if this is actually an accepted practice or do you feel it is a fringe idea used as justification for abuse?

thank you for your question Draka, the islamic perspective on this matter is well explained in the following link

Islam & Wife Beating - Domestic Abuse - Family - OnIslam.net

 

[Debater Slayer]

Perhaps that should be explained to others within your religion that claim otherwise.

Those who claim it is okay to slap wives are either misinformed or plain ignorant, because it's very clear it isn't. Not that it'd make much difference when you tell some people anyway.

 

[Draka]

thank you for your question Draka, the islamic perspective on this matter is well explained in the following link

Islam & Wife Beating - Domestic Abuse - Family - OnIslam.net

Nice link. One thing I did pick up on right away is that part where it was said that each Muslim was taken to be a representative of the religion rather than the individual they are. This is something that happens with a lot of religions. Wicca included. This is why, when I read such claims as I did today, that I want to ask if the statements were actually representative of the religion or its adherents, or if they were just the opinion of an individual. As I'm seeing, so far, it appears to be just the individual. Which is good. Had I found out otherwise I think it would make me a bit uncomfortable around Muslim men.

 

[Gharib]

Nice link. One thing I did pick up on right away is that part where it was said that each Muslim was taken to be a representative of the religion rather than the individual they are. This is something that happens with a lot of religions. Wicca included. This is why, when I read such claims as I did today, that I want to ask if the statements were actually representative of the religion or its adherents, or if they were just the opinion of an individual. As I'm seeing, so far, it appears to be just the individual.

unfortunately the media does love to highlight the actions of some people who belong to certain faiths. i didn't know that the same was for Wiccan followers.

as for the issue at hand, there are a lot of muslims who are confused by this since most people like giving their own opinions rather than the actual islamic opinion. there are many views regarding this and people go by the view that best suits them, but in the end how can you beat your wife and then expect her to love you, what if the wife did the beating, would the husband love her?

 

[Draka]

unfortunately the media does love to highlight the actions of some people who belong to certain faiths. i didn't know that the same was for Wiccan followers.

Yeah, there's not a lot out there you hear about Wicca or Wiccans, but rarely you may hear about a person who commits a crime and even though it has nothing to do with anything, the media will include that they are Wiccan. It's not like you hear that a burglar or attacker is a Christian...but if they are another religion...suddenly it's relevant.

as for the issue at hand, there are a lot of muslims who are confused by this since most people like giving their own opinions rather than the actual islamic opinion. there are many views regarding this and people go by the view that best suits them, but in the end how can you beat your wife and then expect her to love you, what if the wife did the beating, would the husband love her?

Exactly. The question becomes fear or love. You can't love if you abuse, and you can't truly expect love out of fear.

 

[Godobeyer]

Hahahahahaha! Where can I subscribe to this Revoltipedia you speak of?

sorry I just impressed by the title hhhhhhhhhhhhh
i did not check whole contain , it's my bad

 

[Godobeyer]

Why not psychologically equal?

the psychological the woman is refer to here body and mind, that's why we see the woman is fast crying , and had the abilitiy to care for their kids more than the man ...etc

Not insulted although almost lost a mouthful of wine out my nostril . I think you misunderstand, when we/I say equal.. we have come together as a unit in marriage, of course he cannot become pregant but I cannot produce sperm either. There are of course physical differences but it doesn't make one of us more important than the other, without each other we would be nothing, so we love, honour and respect one and other in every way.

you absolutly right , but my opinion is should one of them control the ship , that refer to their personality , and as i know that there are women love to be controled , and there are other hate to be controled . and that refer to the personality of the man also " weak/strong "

 

[Godobeyer]

Which would you rather have, Godobeyer: a wife who understands and respects you, or one who fears you and seethes in resentment?

Our subject is subordonate woman vs unsubordonate woman ok ?
let's be honest

it's like optional divers choice for men .
1-some men refer to marry the woman which had strong personality maybe more than him
2-and some men: prefer to marry the woman which had weak personality

1-the strong personality maybe close to less feminity and unsubordonate woman (for my opinion)
2-the weak personality maybe close to high feminity and subordonate womam . (for my opinion)

the real question is which one of them (unsubordonate or subordonate woman), most of the men prefer to marry ?
let's count .and make survey here in this forum .