F0uad
Well-Known Member
Your quoting a Shia source to a Sunni hehe
.
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Muslims: The testimony of a man who said he heard an angel while alone in a cave
- Thread starter -Peacemaker-
- Start date
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arthra
Baha'i
Your quoting a Shia source to a Sunni hehe
I know that... If Shiah are Muslim...hehe...then some Muslims believe there were more than one Adam... ergo...?
F0uad
Well-Known Member
The majority is Sunni 1.5Billion there are about 300,000 Shia's and 300,000 of other sects and branches.
If that was the case then we should also belief anything that a sect or branch says so, therefore no. People can even reject the number if wanted.
One version of a hadith puts the number of prophets sent to mankind as 124,000 (Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 5, 169); another puts the number at 224,000. Both of these versions, however, should be critically evaluated according to the science of Hadith.
Besides, whether the number was 124 or 224 thousand is not important. What is essential is that no land, people or period was neglected; prophets were sent to all. The Quran says:
There never was a people without a Warner having lived among them’ (35:24)
We would never visit our wrath (chastise any community) until We had sent a Messenger to give warning’ (17:15)
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InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Numbers cannot prove anything. Neither Quran, nor Muhammad said, the sect which has the higher number, is the true one. Sunni view, about certain other things makes more sense, for example temporary marriage.
But with regards, to the Hadith, which says, I was with thousands Adams, this is consistant with the concept of "Return of Prophets" from other major religions, as well as Science.
Budha said, such things: "I am not the first Budha, and not the last Buddha, in future other Buddhas shall come".
Also, John the Baptist, was the return of Elijah, according to Bible, and Jesus.
Return of Christ is another one.
Also, Muhammad says, He was a Prophet before Adam. So, there are many Hadithes, that support this. From Islam, and other religions.
Also, Quran supports the concept of Return. If you could think about this verse:
"There have already come to you messengers before me with clear proofs and [even] that of which you speak. So why did you kill them, if you should be truthful?" Quran, 3:183
Now, how would you explain this verse? Who were those Messengers who were killed, that Quran is accusing people at the time of Muhammad for killing them?
Specially, Messengers are the ones that bring Revelation from God, different than Prophets. Such as Jesus, Moses,...etc.
Science, also shows that, the life on this earth has been more than millions of years. Obviously, God sent Messengers to people to guide them.
Quran says "Each age has it's BOOK". Well, so far we have thousands of Ages on earth.
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F0uad
Well-Known Member
I agree on your first sentence however i am not going to reply on the rest it would make the message to big.
Somethings you should consider are they authentic? What is the context behind the Hadith? Are they rebuked by other hadiths? What is the chain-of-narration? Why don't the majority belief in those Hadiths?
Comparing Budda with Adam(p) is stupid, Adam(p) is considered to be the first human on earth you cannot have a new first person on earth until you destroy the earth and rebuild/make it.
The Hadith about Mohammed(saws) being before Adam(p) means hes Nourh (soul) not him in a physical form its the same when Jesus(p) says before Adam was i since he was born of hes mother(p).
I don't get that indication at all its addressed to the people who call themselves truthfully. I think it was refering to the Jews there are enough Hadiths explaining when this was revaled and to who it was.
There are allot you really want me to name all the prophets and messengers who got attacked and killed by people or tried to kill them?
Jesus and Moses(peace be upon them and there families) are all considered messengers ''Rassulah's'' not only prophets ''Nabi's''.
Human-live more then Million of years.. Not sure what kind of science book you are reading, however i agree on what your trying to say as i have shown before.
It says each age has its law and probably revelation however this would only proof my case.
Ps: If you want information/Authentic Hadiths regarding certain verses or there commentaries i will post them to elobrate.
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InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
This hadith is confirmed in the Baha'i Scriptures, so, yes, it is authentic.
I don't think you understand the meaning of hadith. You take everything too literal.Comparing Budda with Adam(p) is stupid, Adam(p) is considered to be the first human on earth you cannot have a new first person on earth until you destroy the earth and rebuild/make it.
It means in every age, same type of people appear. It doesn't mean actually the same person "Adam" existed. the World goes in cycles and Ages. This is consistant with the Islamic teachings as well as other religions such as Hinduism and Baha'i Faith.
Just as Christ returns, Budha return, Adam return, Muhammad returns.
If you don't believe it is authentic, how come you say what it means?
The Hadith says, "I was a prophet when there was no Adam and no clay"
If you pay attention to the detail of Hadith, He was a 'prophet' before Adam, which means He had to be in a physical form. If He was only a soul, He wouldn't say "He was a 'Prophet' before Adam....
Then why don't you read your Hadithes, and see if they help you!
I was asking, why the verse is accusing people living at the time of Muhammad for killing Messengers who lived thousands years before them?
Yes, Jesus and Moses were Messengers as they created religions with scriptures, which are revelation from God. But you still didn't answer my question. Can you name 2 Messengers who were killed?
The science that is logical. Not the literal interpretation of Adam.
What is your case?
First see if those Hadithes can help you explaining the above questions, then if they do, sure.
outhouse
Atheistically
my guess would be he went in with a bible to copy, which was a good influence over some kind of evil angel
F0uad
Well-Known Member
For the Bahai people they are authentic since they agree on its teaching. Please give me the full chain-of-narration(sanaat) so i can check out each narrator to see if its authentic or not.
They will return on earth but only for judgement day/resurrection day there is no indication in the Authentic hadiths or the Quran that says what you just said. Only if you are willing to be dishonest and twist verses or commentaries.
The hadith says no clay that means there where no humans/physical beings also it would be a direct contradiction on Adam(p) being the first human-being. Its hes Nouhr (soul) he was already made a prophet in the knowledge of god.They were from the same faith as there ancestors(Jewish), those people also uphold the customs of there ancestors and boasted about there history.
Mohammed(saws) was poisoned (tried to be killed) by a Jewish woman and was persecuted by the Jews and Pagans. Jesus(p) was tried to be killed and persecuted by the Jews and Romans.
Jeremiah was thrown into a pit for preaching against the depraved way in which the Israelites were living.
Elijah was being hunted down by Queen Jezebel and had to hide out in the desert. I'm sure other prophets were persecuted because their messages were rarely welcome, but these two are off the top of my head.
Edit: Forgot to put two names who were killed: Zakariya(p) and Yahya(p)
Since you belief also in the bible lets quote some verses:
Acts 7:52 Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him--
Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
1 Thessaolonians 2:15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men
Matthew 5:10-12 "Blessed are they who are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad; for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."
Luke 6:22-23 "Blessed are ye when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.''
If you knew any science you would come to the conclusion that humans did not live millions years ago but probably between 50,000 and 100,000 years. If we would include the evolution something around: 160,000-250,000 as a maximum. (This is uphold by the evolutionist) not religious people. I would agree personally that humans lived much and much longer maybe even in the Millions years ago but its just a assumption and not based on science.
I don't see any questions i only see claims.
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F0uad
Well-Known Member
So the angel who went to marry(p) could also be a devil and the angels meeting Jesus(p) could also be devils?
Each time a angel is mentioned in the bible it can actually mean its a devil?
Also you forget that Islam never teaches that the devil was a ex-angel but that it was created from fire. I think the whole story of the Devil being a fallen angle comes from the Book of Jubilees.
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InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
For the Bahai people they are authentic since they agree on its teaching. Please give me the full chain-of-narration(sanaat) so i can check out each narrator to see if its authentic or not.
They will return on earth but only for judgement day/resurrection day there is no indication in the Authentic hadiths or the Quran that says what you just said. Only if you are willing to be dishonest and twist verses or commentaries.
They were from the same faith as there ancestors(Jewish), those people also uphold the customs of there ancestors and boasted about there history.
Mohammed(saws) was poisoned (tried to be killed) by a Jewish woman and was persecuted by the Jews and Pagans. Jesus(p) was tried to be killed and persecuted by the Jews and Romans.
Jeremiah was thrown into a pit for preaching against the depraved way in which the Israelites were living.
Elijah was being hunted down by Queen Jezebel and had to hide out in the desert. I'm sure other prophets were persecuted because their messages were rarely welcome, but these two are off the top of my head.
Edit: Forgot to put two names who were killed: Zakariya(p) and Yahya(p)
Since you belief also in the bible lets quote some verses:
Acts 7:52 Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him--
Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
1 Thessaolonians 2:15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men
Matthew 5:10-12 "Blessed are they who are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad; for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."
Luke 6:22-23 "Blessed are ye when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.''
If you knew any science you would come to the conclusion that humans did not live millions years ago but probably between 50,000 and 100,000 years. If we would include the evolution something around: 160,000-250,000 as a maximum. (This is uphold by the evolutionist) not religious people. I would agree personally that humans lived much and much longer maybe even in the Millions years ago but its just a assumption and not based on science.
I don't see any questions i only see claims.
"Edit: Forgot to put two names who were killed: Zakariya(p) and Yahya(p)"
Zakariya and Yahya were Prophets or Messengers?
The verse of Quran says, there were "Messengers" who were killed before Muhammad.
"There have already come to you messengers before me with clear proofs and [even] that of which you speak. So why did you kill them, if you should be truthful?" Quran, 3:183
here is a list of Messengers and Prophets in Quran:
Prophets in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
See, those 2 were prophets, not Messengers, according to Quran, and Islam.
So, you haven't been able to give 2 Messengers name who were killed. How strange.
Even if Zakariya and Yahya is the intention, why would Quran accuse people living at the time of Muhammad for killing the Messengers who appeared thousands years before them? You have no choice, except to say, those people living at the time of Muhammad, are the return of the same "type" of people lived at the time of previous Messengers.
Also, you did not address, the return of Elijah as Yahya (john the baptist). How could Elijah be the return of John?
Baha'i Faith scriptures are a direct revelation from God. The verses are prove. "is it not enough that We sent you the Book?"
Moreover, I showed in another thread, the verses and Surrahs like Quran, with the same style are revealed, which can only be from God. I put the Arabic there too. What's your excuse?
You can wait for them to return. They already came back with clear proofs.
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arthra
Baha'i
My friend FOuad,
What follows are my comments:
FOuad wrote:
“The majority is Sunni 1.5Billion there are about 300,000 Shia's and 300,000 of other sects and branches.”
It is interesting that you think there are only 300,000 Shiahs..Maybe you meant 30,000,000? or maybe 121,000,000?
See:
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/comparison_charts/islamic_sects.htm
Anyway I agree with investigate truth's comment that
"Numbers cannot prove anything..."
…………………………………………………………………………………………….
I’m not all that knowledgeable in Hadith traditions. I think it would take considerable research to trace all of this and since much of the material is in Arabic and I’m not proficient in that either I’m relying on my cursory findings…
I was curious in tracing down some of the sources of the traditions of more than one Adam and just taking a brief googling around the net found the following information.
Let's consider some of the sources of the tradition that there were many Adams:
(1)
Al-Razi, Tafsir-e-Kabir, 19:179.
Imam Razi has recorded the following words:
“Indeed, before our father Adam, one million or more Adams have passed.”
Wkipedia has a brief citation on the Tafsir-e-Kabir:
Tafsir al-Kabir (The Large Commentary, also known as Mafatih al-Ghayb, Keys to the Unknown) is a classical Islamic Tafsir book, written by the well-known Persian Islamic theologian and philosopher Muhammad ibn Umar Fakhr al-Din al-Razi (1149-1209).[1] The book is an exegesis and commentary on the Qur'an, and is ten volumes in length. It is not unusual for contemporary works to use it as a reference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafsir_al-Kabir_(al-Razi)
(2)
Abdullah ibn ‘Abbas, cousin of the Prophet, his companion and a famous commentator of the Quran, gives more astonishing information, while explaining the Quranic verse 65: 12, in which it is said:
(It is Allah who has created seven heavens, and likewise earths. His commandments descend through them, so that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that He has knowledge of all things. ) (36)
Ibn-e-Abbas, when questioned about this, said:
If I tell you its details, you would disbelieve me and you would reject it. (Then he said)
There are seven earths, and every earth has prophet like your prophet, Adam like Adam, Nuh like Nuh, Ibrahim like Ibrahim, and Jesus like Jesus. (37)
36.Quran, 65:12
37.Al-Suyuti, Durr al-Manthur, 5:581-582
Where's this from?
http://www.hssrd.org/journal/summer2002/evolution.htm
Who was Al-Suyuti?
Imam al Suyuti (Souyouti) (c. 1445-1505 CE) ( جلال الدين السيوطي , the famous Egyptian writer, religious scholar, juristic expert and teacher whose works deal with a wide variety of subjects in Islamic theology. Suyuti adhered to the Shafi'i Madhab.
What about the Durr al-Manthur?
From a wikipedia article:
Al-Durr Al-Manthur Fi Tafsir Bil-Ma'thur (Arabic: الدر المنثور في التفسير بالماثور‎, The Scattered Pearls: Intertextual Exegesis, is an authoritatve Sunnitafsir (exegesis or commentary of the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam), written by the prominent ImamJalal al-Din al-Suyuti d. 911 AH (1505 AD)[1], who also authored the Tafsir al-Jalalayn. The exegesis explains each passage of the Qur'an by the reports and narrations from Muhammad, his Companions and the immediate generations following the Companions. Suyuti compiled all the reports and narrations that he could gather for each particular passage - even contradictory reports, as can be seen in the narrations gathered explaining verse 33:33:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dur_al-Manthur
So it would appear that this book the Durr al-Manthur is an authoritative Sunni tafsir..
What follows are my comments:
FOuad wrote:
“The majority is Sunni 1.5Billion there are about 300,000 Shia's and 300,000 of other sects and branches.”
It is interesting that you think there are only 300,000 Shiahs..Maybe you meant 30,000,000? or maybe 121,000,000?
See:
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/comparison_charts/islamic_sects.htm
Anyway I agree with investigate truth's comment that
"Numbers cannot prove anything..."
…………………………………………………………………………………………….
I’m not all that knowledgeable in Hadith traditions. I think it would take considerable research to trace all of this and since much of the material is in Arabic and I’m not proficient in that either I’m relying on my cursory findings…
I was curious in tracing down some of the sources of the traditions of more than one Adam and just taking a brief googling around the net found the following information.
Let's consider some of the sources of the tradition that there were many Adams:
(1)
Al-Razi, Tafsir-e-Kabir, 19:179.
Imam Razi has recorded the following words:
“Indeed, before our father Adam, one million or more Adams have passed.”
Wkipedia has a brief citation on the Tafsir-e-Kabir:
Tafsir al-Kabir (The Large Commentary, also known as Mafatih al-Ghayb, Keys to the Unknown) is a classical Islamic Tafsir book, written by the well-known Persian Islamic theologian and philosopher Muhammad ibn Umar Fakhr al-Din al-Razi (1149-1209).[1] The book is an exegesis and commentary on the Qur'an, and is ten volumes in length. It is not unusual for contemporary works to use it as a reference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafsir_al-Kabir_(al-Razi)
(2)
Abdullah ibn ‘Abbas, cousin of the Prophet, his companion and a famous commentator of the Quran, gives more astonishing information, while explaining the Quranic verse 65: 12, in which it is said:
(It is Allah who has created seven heavens, and likewise earths. His commandments descend through them, so that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that He has knowledge of all things. ) (36)
Ibn-e-Abbas, when questioned about this, said:
If I tell you its details, you would disbelieve me and you would reject it. (Then he said)
There are seven earths, and every earth has prophet like your prophet, Adam like Adam, Nuh like Nuh, Ibrahim like Ibrahim, and Jesus like Jesus. (37)
36.Quran, 65:12
37.Al-Suyuti, Durr al-Manthur, 5:581-582
Where's this from?
http://www.hssrd.org/journal/summer2002/evolution.htm
Who was Al-Suyuti?
Imam al Suyuti (Souyouti) (c. 1445-1505 CE) ( جلال الدين السيوطي
, the famous Egyptian writer, religious scholar, juristic expert and teacher whose works deal with a wide variety of subjects in Islamic theology. Suyuti adhered to the Shafi'i Madhab.What about the Durr al-Manthur?
From a wikipedia article:
Al-Durr Al-Manthur Fi Tafsir Bil-Ma'thur (Arabic: الدر المنثور في التفسير بالماثور‎
, The Scattered Pearls: Intertextual Exegesis, is an authoritatve Sunnitafsir (exegesis or commentary of the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam), written by the prominent ImamJalal al-Din al-Suyuti d. 911 AH (1505 AD)[1], who also authored the Tafsir al-Jalalayn. The exegesis explains each passage of the Qur'an by the reports and narrations from Muhammad, his Companions and the immediate generations following the Companions. Suyuti compiled all the reports and narrations that he could gather for each particular passage - even contradictory reports, as can be seen in the narrations gathered explaining verse 33:33:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dur_al-Manthur
So it would appear that this book the Durr al-Manthur is an authoritative Sunni tafsir..
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Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
The Bible says Moses went into the presence of God alone and received the Torah. No one else saw it, so why do you accept Moses' word for it?
That's no different then the claim Muhammad made. For my part I disbelieve them both.
That's no different then the claim Muhammad made. For my part I disbelieve them both.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Regarding the existance of human, this depends on the exact defination of "human".
There were earlier human, known as 'homo', for example millions years back. Even they looked somewhat different than the modern human, they were still human.
"Using DNA, the splitting date between human and Chimpanzee lineages is placed around 4-8 million years ago during the late Miocene epoch.
The earliest fossils that have been proposed as members of the hominin lineage are Sahelanthropus tchadensis dating from 7 million years ago, and Orrorin tugenensis dating from 5.7 million years ago and Ardipithecus kadabba dating to 5.6 million years ago.
The earliest members of the genus Homo are Homo habilis which evolved around 2.3 million years ago."
Source: Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Homo is the genus that includes modern humans and species closely related to them. The genus is estimated to be about 2.3 to 2.4 million years old"
Homo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also based on use of tools, the use of Acheulean tools began ca. 1.8 million years ago.
Homo erectus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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1robin
Christian/Baptist
You seem to have left out a few details:
Ex: 19
16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. 17 Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. 18 Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountain[b] trembled violently. 19 As the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.[c]
20 The Lord descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up 21 and the Lord said to him, Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the Lord and many of them perish. 22 Even the priests, who approach the Lord, must consecrate themselves, or the Lord will break out against them.
23 Moses said to the Lord, The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy.
24 The Lord replied, Go down and bring Aaron up with you. But the priests and the people must not force their way through to come up to the Lord, or he will break out against them.
25 So Moses went down to the people and told them.
Ex 20:
18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.
20 Moses said to the people, Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.
21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.
Exodus 20 NIV - The Ten Commandments - And God spoke - Bible Gateway
Seeing God on top of a mountain flashing fire and roaring with thunder is pretty convincing to me.
That is a little different than an Arabian merchant showing up with nothing (saying he was possesed) and later claiming to be from God.
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Yeah and if you think Exodus is really an eyewitness account you haven't noticed all those Lord said unto Moses statements in there. Moses didn't write it.
My point was you have no better reason to believe that. You didn't see it, and as the Torah is written off tradition we can't be sure that anyone ever did.
My point was you have no better reason to believe that. You didn't see it, and as the Torah is written off tradition we can't be sure that anyone ever did.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Why is my personal witness to an event the only way of excepting it. That is not the way courts work. Well it is not a very logical or usefull starting point when debateing the bible or Quran to first assume they are made up. The Hebrews had specific classes of people who were tasked with accurate transimission of Hebrew history. Their mistakes or inaccuracies were punishable by death at times. I know of no reason to automatically dismiss the old testament. Evolution is taught as a fact even though 99.9% of it has never been observed. If I wish to evaluate the Quran or the bible I do so at face value.
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Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I never made the statement that the events stated are either true or false beyond pointing out Exodus as a traditional narrative.
I am simply showing that there is little difference in believing the Moses story and the Muhammad story. Both are believed on faith and the story themes are similar.
I am simply showing that there is little difference in believing the Moses story and the Muhammad story. Both are believed on faith and the story themes are similar.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Serious are you really this childish? If you have nothing to say just keep quite. What does it matter if they were messengers or prophets? The Quran tell us they were killed so they were. I already explained who asked what and why, so why do you repeat your questions over and over? I said before the Jewish people who lived in time of prophet Mohammed(saws) boasted about there history. Why are you twisting around and telling me that i have no choice to accept the fact that those kind of people returned. If you actually took time to read my messages you would come to the conclusion i was the one who was pointing that out in the first place.
I do not fully understand the question about Elijah or Yahya could you elaborate?
:sad4: This again.
Uhhh.. John the baptist and Elijah have come back??
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Again assumption no real data nor do i belief that we have evolved from monkeys.
Clearly you don't know anything about evolution you think quoting Wikipedia helps you in any way?
First of all Homos are not humans but primates.
A Genus means something related to, look alike, family however this is never proven its like saying the monkey in the zoo is my brother.
If you did some research on this you would know its dated back to 3millions latter.
Like i said before i don't belief in Human evolution i am open for animal evolution.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
I think the accuracy of the Words in Quran is important. There is a difference between prophet and Messenger, which I am sure you are aware.
We cannot consider Quran the Word of God, then say, God meant prophets, but He said messengers.
Ok, if you pointed out this, that's very good. I was just emphasizing a fact that, just as the same type of people are returned at the time of a Messenger, the same type of Messenger is said to be returned. Hence return of Christ, can be interpreted as return of another Messenger with spiritual qualities of Christ.
Sure. As you know, Elijah was a prophet for Jews. As you are aware, to Jews Messiah was Promised as well as return of Elijah.
It is part of Jewish scripture that before the Messiah, Prophet Elijah returns.
So, when Jesus came more than 1000 years after Moses, He calimed to be Messiah. Just before Jesus, John the Baptist (Yahya) came. Jesus said, John the Baptist (Yahya) is the spiritual return of Elijah as it was promised. He said, they couldn't recognize him, and treated him badly, because his name was John not Elijah.
You can find these in Bible. OT and NT.