-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
Try to think really hard about the comparison of Jesus to Caesar.
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Muslims: The testimony of a man who said he heard an angel while alone in a cave
- Thread starter -Peacemaker-
- Start date
Try to think really hard about the comparison of Jesus to Caesar.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
It wasn't a comparison, it was a timeline. You know, the EXACT thing you were complaining about.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
Caesar was arguably the most famous man in the world during his own lifetime. Jesus? Not so much
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Oh? What happened to the hundreds of thousands of witnesses?
Me Myself
Back to my username
Let me put it simple for you:
You have as many evidence for your texr being of god as the iliad and the odissey has of Zeus poseidon and the others exist.
You have as much evidence as the hinduist texts that say that a whole town of people saw Krishna diong his miracles while he was a kid.
In other words, you have as much evidence as pretty much any other religious text.
Given that not all of them can be 100% correct according to your believe, you cannot think that that is an accurate portrayal of what should be believable.
so basically the muslims can say that they believe the Qran doesn´t come from the devil for the same reason you think The bible doesn´t come from the devil trying to confuse the jews or other humans into thinking human can be God and thus blaspheming such to take them out of their road.
This, by the way, means you have 0 evidence.
Understandable?
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
I said hundreds AND thousands, almost all illiterate in a backwater region of the Roman empire
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Thats not the point. There are hundreds of books about less famous people as well. I used Caesar because he died around the 2000 year mark. Who I use as an example is not important, but my arguement that you clearly missed is that you can't use 2000 years as an excuse to muddle up history when at that time we have some great books about people living at the time of Jesus who may or may not have been as famous.
I'm debating your arguement that you have to treat the bible differently based on age.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Jungle: To continue, what about the Gracchi? 2 Roman brothers who weren't actually that powerful and ultimately failed to achieve their goals. We have a detailed history of them and they lived over a hundred years before Jesus?
Me Myself
Back to my username
Jewish historians existed in that time.
No mention of the person that feeded thousands of people in the mount, or did all the miracles, not oeven of the criminal that was so horrible that he was crucified instead of the murderer for his blasphemies.
Nothing.
This, if you haven´t noticed, is suspicious.
Have you ruled out the oddisey and the Illiad yet? Maybe you should fear poseidon.
Maybe Hades wrote the bible so people wouldn´t worship zeus. Maybe he´ll be ****** with you man. Wouldn´t go out in a storm if I were you.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
I can put together a little more tommorrow. I'm swamped with translating stuff right now and may not even be able to finish tonight
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
he did not only hear the angel, he saw it. and as a result of what happened in the cave, he too thought that it was a devil. however The wife of the Prophet denied his claim that it was an evil spirit and took him to see her cousin, a christian scholar named Waraqah bin Naufal, when he related the story and explained what the angel commanded him, the christian man said that spirit is Gabriel. he was sent to all the other prophets. he was Also the first man to directly say to Muhammed that he is a prophet, the prophet mentioned by Jesus peace be upon him and that he would be driven out of his home (makkah) just as all the other prophets were driven out and rejected by their people. and as a matter of fact, what Naraqah said, did happen.
moreover, the companions of the prophet, although they could not see Gabriel delivering a revelation, they became familiar with the sings of the prophet when he used to receive the revelations. on one occasion it is reported that when he used to receive the revelation he would sweat in the coldest day of winter, there were different ways in how he received revelation. on another occasion, the leg of the prophet was over the leg of one of his companions as they were sitting down, when Gabriel came with the revelation he sat on the leg of the prophet and the companion related to everyone that when the prophet began receiving the revelation his leg became so heavy that it nearly crushed his leg underneath.
if you put your leg over someone else's leg, can you have that effect on them without showing sings of struggle like willfully pushing down on their leg?
if you want a more detailed answer with references let me know.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
You didn´t just do that.
he did :slap:
Pastek
Sunni muslim
And what proof do we have that angels came to people in the Bible ?
How can people believe that Paul's visions were from God ?
Or the Book of revelations ?
You don't have any proof too.
Jesus never said that after him there will never be an other prophet
But he said to not believe someone who says he (Jesus) did not came from God or wasn't the Messiah or teaching something different.
The prophet Muhammad did say he was the Messiah, the Word of God and he teached us many rules from the law of Moses. So, how can the angel Muhammad saw can be an evil spirit ?
How can an evil spirit said bad things about the evil ?
3.36 (...)And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge for her in You and [for] her descendants from Satan, the expelled [from the mercy of Allah ]."
And they're many others verses again the devil in the Qur'an
Not one supposed miracle he performed is written outside of the bible, now, you'd think an event like zombies walking into jerusalem would merit some extra-biblical evidence, but not only merit extra-biblical evidence, but if this event actually occured, this would make him the most polorizing figure in his time, far more than cesar. But what do we get, we get stories about him decades after his death, from non-eyewitenesses reporting stories about stories to attest for miraculous claims. This is very weak sauce. And no amount of josephus can account for this, the best you can do is say that it's possible that a man by the name of yeshua lived in or around the first century, but the miracles are an added claim that have no justification. It's like Alexander the great, he most likely lived, but the myths surrounding some of his stories are just that, myths.
The gospel accounts are written based on stories and rumours passed around.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
one more thing that i forgot to mention in my first post, you can search up the name Salman Al Farsi and read his life story, it's not very long. if you'd like to hear an audio lecture on his life story and why i'm recommending you look him up, then i can provide an audio lecture if it is of more convenience to you.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
I must admit, I think I might've gotten in over my head on this one.
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