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My Freedoms, Your Freedoms-- How many do you truly accept?

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I thought of making this a poll, but there are so many choices, I figured it would be tedious. Instead, I've decided to just lay out a whole list of things that I think should be considered as "freedoms" to which every person has a right.

What freedoms would you deny me (and therefore, by extension, deny yourself)? Please consider that freedom cannot be totally unlimited, and limits may be imposed if I infringe on the rights of others, do harm to others, or thwart important but complex public policy (for that last, consider that I may feel it my right not to be photographed, but the government may see a need to stop others from illegally using my identity, and therefore insist upon it). And, of course, we must concede that dependent minors cannot have all of these freedoms, that parents a guardians must be free to guide those in their care.

So only answer in the NEGATIVE -- those things you think that should not be considered rightful freedoms. For any of the freedoms that I would like to have for myself and others, therefore, when you identify one that you think we should not have, please give your reasons.

Finally, I am not all-wise. If you identify a freedom not listed, do please mention it.

I think that I should be free (within the limitations set out in paragraph 2 above):
  • To practice any religion, or to practice none?
  • To wear clothing that reflects my religion?
  • To wear clothing that reflects my gender identity, as opposed to clothing that reflects my anatomy?
  • To pray when and where I would like?
  • To not pray, if prayer has no meaning for me?
  • To think my own thoughts, speak my mind, listen to views of others and express my opinions in creative ways?
  • To meet with anyone I wish and participate in peaceful demonstrations?
  • To protest against a government action or institution?
  • To write, or to read, news stories or to air and view them?
  • To vote for the candidate I wish, for my own reasons?
  • To live in what part of my country I choose, or to leave my country forever, if I choose?
  • To seek work where I choose to live?
  • To not be unreasonably searched, or detained?
  • To have my privacy respected by government and its agencies?
  • To not have government or government agencies invade my private space, or to remove anything without a duly authorized warrant from the judiciary?
  • To love – and make love to – the consenting person of my choice?
  • To marry that person, if we both agree?
  • To be tried within a reasonable amount of time, if charged with a crime?
  • To choose not to testify at my own trial?
  • To be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a fair and public hearing by an independent and unbiased tribunal?
  • To only be denied reasonable bail with cause?
  • To be tried by a jury of my peers for serious charges?
  • To only be tried or punished once for an offence?
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
It may be noticed that I left out a few -- and I'll bet more than a few. For example, I forgot:
  • To use the public restroom facilities of the gender that I identify myself as being?
  • To compete in sports, where the sport is gender-specific, as the gender I identify myself as being?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You forgot about special interest, lobbies, and bought and paid for policymaking.

The freedom to be actually free from that.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I think any list of freedoms will be pretty idealistic. As individuals we know ourselves pretty well and will know what we need to be happy and productive. It's how other members of society use freedoms that is often the problem, and not even a large number, just enough irresponsible people who cause harm due to a lack of maturity and personal responsibility. The more mature a society, the more liberty can be extended. The less mature will require more limits and restrictions.

A community of Buddhists will require vastly fewer limits than a community of college kids.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
You forgot about special interest, lobbies, and bought and paid for policymaking.

The freedom to be actually free from that.
So you think you should have the right to be "free from" stuff you don't actually want to hear? As opposed to being perfectly free to ignore it?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
So only answer in the NEGATIVE -- those things you think that should not be considered rightful freedoms.
I like your OP, and IF you had made a poll with 1 option (or grouped a few) "I agree with the 20+ list in the OP" THEN I would have voted yes to all (I like polls)
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
It may be noticed that I left out a few -- and I'll bet more than a few. For example, I forgot:
  • To use the public restroom facilities of the gender that I identify myself as being?
  • To compete in sports, where the sport is gender-specific, as the gender I identify myself as being?
You also forgot the one right that almost all of us outside the US enjoy but the US sees as superfluous: the right to life.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I thought of making this a poll, but there are so many choices, I figured it would be tedious. Instead, I've decided to just lay out a whole list of things that I think should be considered as "freedoms" to which every person has a right.

What freedoms would you deny me (and therefore, by extension, deny yourself)? Please consider that freedom cannot be totally unlimited, and limits may be imposed if I infringe on the rights of others, do harm to others, or thwart important but complex public policy (for that last, consider that I may feel it my right not to be photographed, but the government may see a need to stop others from illegally using my identity, and therefore insist upon it). And, of course, we must concede that dependent minors cannot have all of these freedoms, that parents a guardians must be free to guide those in their care.

So only answer in the NEGATIVE -- those things you think that should not be considered rightful freedoms. For any of the freedoms that I would like to have for myself and others, therefore, when you identify one that you think we should not have, please give your reasons.

Finally, I am not all-wise. If you identify a freedom not listed, do please mention it.

I think that I should be free (within the limitations set out in paragraph 2 above):
  • To practice any religion, or to practice none?
  • To wear clothing that reflects my religion?
  • To wear clothing that reflects my gender identity, as opposed to clothing that reflects my anatomy?
  • To pray when and where I would like?
  • To not pray, if prayer has no meaning for me?
  • To think my own thoughts, speak my mind, listen to views of others and express my opinions in creative ways?
  • To meet with anyone I wish and participate in peaceful demonstrations?
  • To protest against a government action or institution?
  • To write, or to read, news stories or to air and view them?
  • To vote for the candidate I wish, for my own reasons?
  • To live in what part of my country I choose, or to leave my country forever, if I choose?
  • To seek work where I choose to live?
  • To not be unreasonably searched, or detained?
  • To have my privacy respected by government and its agencies?
  • To not have government or government agencies invade my private space, or to remove anything without a duly authorized warrant from the judiciary?
  • To love – and make love to – the consenting person of my choice?
  • To marry that person, if we both agree?
  • To be tried within a reasonable amount of time, if charged with a crime?
  • To choose not to testify at my own trial?
  • To be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a fair and public hearing by an independent and unbiased tribunal?
  • To only be denied reasonable bail with cause?
  • To be tried by a jury of my peers for serious charges?
  • To only be tried or punished once for an offence?
I like your OP. You should be this free to express yourself:)
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
  • To pray when and where I would like?
You can pray in your free time, in your home, your place of worship or any public space that isn't dedicate to another function.
  • To marry that person, if we both agree?
As long as marriage has legal meaning and in the same way others have that right.
  • To be tried by a jury of my peers for serious charges?
And if your peers are a bunch of bumbling idiots? Let the law be handled by professionals. Most countries fare well with that.
  • To only be tried or punished once for an offence?
And if that one offence was against multiple targets? You should only be tried criminally once but civilly by all hurt parties, joined or individually.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I thought of making this a poll, but there are so many choices, I figured it would be tedious. Instead, I've decided to just lay out a whole list of things that I think should be considered as "freedoms" to which every person has a right.

What freedoms would you deny me (and therefore, by extension, deny yourself)? Please consider that freedom cannot be totally unlimited, and limits may be imposed if I infringe on the rights of others, do harm to others, or thwart important but complex public policy (for that last, consider that I may feel it my right not to be photographed, but the government may see a need to stop others from illegally using my identity, and therefore insist upon it). And, of course, we must concede that dependent minors cannot have all of these freedoms, that parents a guardians must be free to guide those in their care.

So only answer in the NEGATIVE -- those things you think that should not be considered rightful freedoms. For any of the freedoms that I would like to have for myself and others, therefore, when you identify one that you think we should not have, please give your reasons.

Finally, I am not all-wise. If you identify a freedom not listed, do please mention it.

I think that I should be free (within the limitations set out in paragraph 2 above):
  • To practice any religion, or to practice none?
  • To wear clothing that reflects my religion?
  • To wear clothing that reflects my gender identity, as opposed to clothing that reflects my anatomy?
  • To pray when and where I would like?
  • To not pray, if prayer has no meaning for me?
  • To think my own thoughts, speak my mind, listen to views of others and express my opinions in creative ways?
  • To meet with anyone I wish and participate in peaceful demonstrations?
  • To protest against a government action or institution?
  • To write, or to read, news stories or to air and view them?
  • To vote for the candidate I wish, for my own reasons?
  • To live in what part of my country I choose, or to leave my country forever, if I choose?
  • To seek work where I choose to live?
  • To not be unreasonably searched, or detained?
  • To have my privacy respected by government and its agencies?
  • To not have government or government agencies invade my private space, or to remove anything without a duly authorized warrant from the judiciary?
  • To love – and make love to – the consenting person of my choice?
  • To marry that person, if we both agree?
  • To be tried within a reasonable amount of time, if charged with a crime?
  • To choose not to testify at my own trial?
  • To be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a fair and public hearing by an independent and unbiased tribunal?
  • To only be denied reasonable bail with cause?
  • To be tried by a jury of my peers for serious charges?
  • To only be tried or punished once for an offence?
I’d deny you the right to kill those who disagree (except in self defence.)
Otherwise it’s really none of my business what you do and I really could not care less how you live your life.
I’d never take any of those rights from you. I’d extend them and probably join you in celebration.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Generally I agree with all of those rights but especially:
To be tried within a reasonable amount of time, if charged with a crime?
It would be super awesome if this were practical and could be expected rather than wished for. I expect, if I ever get into trouble, to have to wait for many months to get my name cleared or to be convicted. It may also take years. I also expect lawyers to have much better access to court information and to be given preference with court times and court appointments. I don't think I, innocent or not, could successfully clear my name during a criminal investigation without the support of a lawyer. It would be up to the good will of the police, the court. I would probably be convicted of something, probably due to saying something stupid.

To be tried by a jury of my peers for serious charges?
I would prefer to be tried by much nicer people, but peers are ok I guess.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I’d deny you the right to kill those who disagree (except in self defence.)
Otherwise it’s really none of my business what you do and I really could not care less how you live your life.
I’d never take any of those rights from you. I’d extend them and probably join you in celebration.
That's pretty naive. We humans are far too inter-dependent now days for such open-ended idealism.

The basic principals of every human being afforded an EQUAL right to life (including physical and mental well-being), liberty (relative to social responsibility), and opportunity (to pursue one's own fulfillment) are very clear and functional ideals. But the 'devil is in the details', as they say. So the question becomes, how do we achieve these? And that's where, so far in human history, we have fallen very short of the goals.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
That's pretty naive. We humans are far too inter-dependent now days for such open-ended idealism.

The basic principals of every human being afforded an EQUAL right to life (including physical and mental well-being), liberty (relative to social responsibility), and opportunity (to pursue one's own fulfillment) are very clear and functional ideals. But the 'devil is in the details', as they say. So the question becomes, how do we achieve these? And that's where, so far in human history, we have fallen very short of the goals.
I agree that have fallen short. But as a baby anarchist, I’m not one to tell another how to live one’s life. Hell as a Hindu I’m not going to tell one how to live one’s life as that is seen as Adharmic or “sinful.”
So I stand by my original post.
Sorry
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Anarchy is a fool's fantasy. Human have never been able to live in together ungoverned, and never will.
 
Last edited:

Secret Chief

Veteran Member
I thought of making this a poll, but there are so many choices, I figured it would be tedious. Instead, I've decided to just lay out a whole list of things that I think should be considered as "freedoms" to which every person has a right.

What freedoms would you deny me (and therefore, by extension, deny yourself)? Please consider that freedom cannot be totally unlimited, and limits may be imposed if I infringe on the rights of others, do harm to others, or thwart important but complex public policy (for that last, consider that I may feel it my right not to be photographed, but the government may see a need to stop others from illegally using my identity, and therefore insist upon it). And, of course, we must concede that dependent minors cannot have all of these freedoms, that parents a guardians must be free to guide those in their care.

So only answer in the NEGATIVE -- those things you think that should not be considered rightful freedoms. For any of the freedoms that I would like to have for myself and others, therefore, when you identify one that you think we should not have, please give your reasons.

Finally, I am not all-wise. If you identify a freedom not listed, do please mention it.

I think that I should be free (within the limitations set out in paragraph 2 above):
  • To practice any religion, or to practice none?
  • To wear clothing that reflects my religion?
  • To wear clothing that reflects my gender identity, as opposed to clothing that reflects my anatomy?
  • To pray when and where I would like?
  • To not pray, if prayer has no meaning for me?
  • To think my own thoughts, speak my mind, listen to views of others and express my opinions in creative ways?
  • To meet with anyone I wish and participate in peaceful demonstrations?
  • To protest against a government action or institution?
  • To write, or to read, news stories or to air and view them?
  • To vote for the candidate I wish, for my own reasons?
  • To live in what part of my country I choose, or to leave my country forever, if I choose?
  • To seek work where I choose to live?
  • To not be unreasonably searched, or detained?
  • To have my privacy respected by government and its agencies?
  • To not have government or government agencies invade my private space, or to remove anything without a duly authorized warrant from the judiciary?
  • To love – and make love to – the consenting person of my choice?
  • To marry that person, if we both agree?
  • To be tried within a reasonable amount of time, if charged with a crime?
  • To choose not to testify at my own trial?
  • To be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a fair and public hearing by an independent and unbiased tribunal?
  • To only be denied reasonable bail with cause?
  • To be tried by a jury of my peers for serious charges?
  • To only be tried or punished once for an offence?
All seems very reasonable. One could probably come up with quite a few more but maybe just settle with Freedom to not read endless lists :D
 
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