My Issues With Romans One

[idav]

To answer you, let's stay with Romans one.

What excuse does an Atheist have for their excuse, but nothing at all. Let's take Romans 1:20, How much of this verse do you believe that Atheists will believe of this Verse 20?

Verse 20, explains everything why Atheists or anyone else are without an excuse. Go Figure

Ok I see what your saying. Your saying the truth of Romans chapter one as being truth with a capital T. I sense some circular reasoning their. Your saying people should read the Bible and just know god exists? How does that logic work? Break it down for me. A person reading Romans chapter one is with no excuse is definitely circular logic. Your using someone denying chapter one as proof of its truth!?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Ok I see what your saying. Your saying the truth of Romans chapter one as being truth with a capital T. I sense some circular reasoning their. Your saying people should read the Bible and just know god exists? How does that logic work? Break it down for me. A person reading Romans chapter one is with no excuse is definitely circular logic. Your using someone denying chapter one as proof of its truth!?

Romans Chapter 1, Was not written for the Believers, But Written to the Unbelievers, to give them warnings of the soon coming Judgement of God's.

Whether or not they want to heed the warnings, That's totally up to them.

Therefore they the Unbelievers can not come back and say, Hey we didn't have any warnings.

Where as in times pass, God wink at people's ignorance, Where as now people have No excuses.

Just as it is written in Romans 1:20 "So that they are without excuse"

 

[idav]

Romans Chapter 1, Was not written for the Believers, But Written to the Unbelievers, to give them warnings of the soon coming Judgement of God's.

Whether or not they want to heed the warnings, That's totally up to them.

Therefore they the Unbelievers can not come back and say, Hey we didn't have any warnings.

Where as in times pass, God wink at people's ignorance, Where as now people have No excuses.

Just as it is written in Romans 1:20 "So that they are without excuse"

The claim takes it further to say the proof is all around us, not just in the words being read. I wouldn't even think they meant the words. Some people say that you just look at nature and see god, that's reasonable to me but I don't think it's really obvious.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The claim takes it further to say the proof is all around us, not just in the words being read. I wouldn't even think they meant the words. Some people say that you just look at nature and see god, that's reasonable to me but I don't think it's really obvious.

It doesn't matter what people will say, What does matter is You. If you want to brush off all the warnings, That's You.
But you will not be able to claim you didn't know or claim ignorance.

Where as in times Pass God wink at people's ignorance, but for people to day, There is no excuse for them.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead

Such verbosity for "Hi, I'm Paul."

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name

"Unless I am in trouble with the Romans, and then like the other apostles, I'll whine about how it's not fair and try to get out of punishment. I get bonus points for arguing politics, my offensive Roman citizenship, to get out of a jail sentence."

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, so far I've read, "Hi, this is Paul, a person of assumed importance. What's up?"

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

"Whole world" meaning "a few places around the Mediterranean".

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; 10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

"Also, please do your best to forget my part in the killing of your people. I'm super over that and in no way still trying to destroy Jesus' ministry by talking so much about myself."

11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; 12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

"I don't think my request to be out on bail is going to be approved. I mean, I know you don't have Roman citizenship so they were just going to kill you anyway, but we're ON THE SAME *SNIFFLE* TEAM."

Sorry, I just can't take Paul seriously. He's like a televangelist.

https://thechrononautreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/abc_abc_swaggart_apology_100218_wg.jpg

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

"I am so not ashamed that I flee from people trying to kill me and argue that my citizenship should get me out of trouble."

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

"I wouldn't know all about that, though. Even if I'm educated in Greek, I don't sound like I've studied in Alexandria or anything."

"I'm also ignoring all the times I did these things, like hit people with rocks, because we're focusing on YOU and YOUR possible damnation, not mine."

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

"Believe me. I'm the wisest guy in the whole world. It's a big world. My wiseness is YUGE."

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

"Keep mailing me evidence of this debauchery. I, uh, I need to see it for myself ... to warn against it, yeah ...."

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

"I don't like women and that puts me in a bit of a spot because I don't know of many other options."

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

"I love being in Rome. They advertise their sinfulness on the graffiti all over the place ... hang on ... just adjusting my loincloth here as I stare at yet another penis pic of Caesar."

First of all God doesn't give anyone over to sinful desire, people chooses sinful desire.
Just because a person chooses to do sinful desires is no fault of God's.

God is one of the worst examples of entrapment there is.

I have no issues with Romans one.
But Atheists and homosexualls will.

And Christians who basically want to stop being Christians because of people like Paul.

You see I have No issues with Romans one.

Paul called someone barbarians in the first chapter. Does a saved person call their neighbors that?

Romans Chapter 1, Was not written for the Believers, But Written to the Unbelievers, to give them warnings of the soon coming Judgement of God's.

But unbelievers would hope for a more substantial message than "I think I'm God's gift to humanity, believe me."

It doesn't matter what people will say, What does matter is You. If you want to brush off all the warnings, That's You.

And I do. Paul is neither Jesus nor God and I am under no obligation to treat him as holy just because he thinks he is.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Such verbosity for "Hi, I'm Paul."




"Unless I am in trouble with the Romans, and then like the other apostles, I'll whine about how it's not fair and try to get out of punishment. I get bonus points for arguing politics, my offensive Roman citizenship, to get out of a jail sentence."


So, so far I've read, "Hi, this is Paul, a person of assumed importance. What's up?"


"Whole world" meaning "a few places around the Mediterranean".


"Also, please do your best to forget my part in the killing of your people. I'm super over that and in no way still trying to destroy Jesus' ministry by talking so much about myself."


"I don't think my request to be out on bail is going to be approved. I mean, I know you don't have Roman citizenship so they were just going to kill you anyway, but we're ON THE SAME *SNIFFLE* TEAM."

Sorry, I just can't take Paul seriously. He's like a televangelist.

https://thechrononautreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/abc_abc_swaggart_apology_100218_wg.jpg


"I am so not ashamed that I flee from people trying to kill me and argue that my citizenship should get me out of trouble."


"I wouldn't know all about that, though. Even if I'm educated in Greek, I don't sound like I've studied in Alexandria or anything."

"I'm also ignoring all the times I did these things, like hit people with rocks, because we're focusing on YOU and YOUR possible damnation, not mine."


"Believe me. I'm the wisest guy in the whole world. It's a big world. My wiseness is YUGE."


"Keep mailing me evidence of this debauchery. I, uh, I need to see it for myself ... to warn against it, yeah ...."


"I don't like women and that puts me in a bit of a spot because I don't know of many other options."


"I love being in Rome. They advertise their sinfulness on the graffiti all over the place ... hang on ... just adjusting my loincloth here as I stare at yet another penis pic of Caesar."


God is one of the worst examples of entrapment there is.


And Christians who basically want to stop being Christians because of people like Paul.


Paul called someone barbarians in the first chapter. Does a saved person call their neighbors that?


But unbelievers would hope for a more substantial message than "I think I'm God's gift to humanity, believe me."


And I do. Paul is neither Jesus nor God and I am under no obligation to treat him as holy just because he thinks he is.

Had you any idea or clue, what Paul was meaning by in Romans 1:14 " I am debtor to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians"

Your taking Barbarians as a derogatory comment, Maybe you should find out what Barbarian in the Greek Language stands to mean, before you make any allegations.

Barbarians in the Greek translation means
A foreigner a non Greek.

So before you make any allegations about what Paul said, at lease know what it means to call a certain people barbarians in the Greek Language.

 

[Enoch07]

So, do you believe God massacred innocents as depicted in Exodus? A simply yes or no will do.

No

 

[idav]

It doesn't matter what people will say, What does matter is You. If you want to brush off all the warnings, That's You.
But you will not be able to claim you didn't know or claim ignorance.

Where as in times Pass God wink at people's ignorance, but for people to day, There is no excuse for them.

Your just talking about preaching the gospel at that point and is way passed whether a person believes in a god that they know for a fact exists. Not every theist will think the Bible is truth.

 

[Nakosis]

Sorry if it's a little long. Thoughts? Objections?

I think it's just Paul getting a little frustrated at his inability to convince some folks of what seems to him an obvious truth.

Since his teaching, he assumes is provided by the Holy Spirit. It cannot be missing the mark. Therefore God must have for some reason made these folks resistant to the truth.

Paul obviously feels his knowledge of God is provided by the Holy Spirit and can't be questioned. Yet, folks question it and find his views unreasonable.

Just a way for Paul to justify folks who disagree with his views on God.

 

[DavidFirth]

You pick your version of the Bible and I'll pick mine. Isn't that how Christian apologetics works?



Need to prove Noah's ark was made of gopher wood? Then quote Genesis 6:14 the 21st Century King James Version

"Make thee an ark of gopherwood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt cover it within and without with pitch."​

Think it was made out of cypress wood instead? Then quote Genesis 6:14 the Easy-to-Read Version

"Use cypress wood and build a boat for yourself. Make rooms in the boat and cover it with tar inside and out."​

How about pine trees? Then quote Genesis 6:14 the Geneva Bible

" Make thee an Ark of pine trees: thou shalt make cabins in the Ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch."

​

Change your mind and feel it was made out of teak instead? Then quote Genesis 6:14 The Message

“Build yourself a ship from teak wood. Make rooms in it. Coat it with pitch inside and out.

​

But maybe all you need is an ark made out of just good old wood. Then quote Genesis 6:14 the Common English Bible

"so make a wooden ark. Make the ark with nesting places and cover it inside and out with tar."​

Or to put a finer point on it, maybe resinous wood. Then quote the Tree of Life Version

"Make a boat from resinous wood, sealing it with tar; and construct decks and stalls throughout the ship."​

.

You are master of deflection.

 

[DavidFirth]

Most often the verse has been used to say that everyone knows God created them. If so, it's completely false. What do you interpret it to mean?


You can't prove that everyone has an understanding of God creating things, because that's false. I was an atheist for decades. Now I'm theist and I still don't see any of these invisible signs of creation.

I don't care how it's used, I care about what it says. And it doesn't say that.

You must become blind so that you can see.

 

[DavidFirth]

What is an atheist supposed to know that they are with no excuse? No excuse for what?

No excuse for the sin of disbelief will be accepted on Judgement Day since it is so obvious.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Ok I see what your saying. Your saying the truth of Romans chapter one as being truth with a capital T. I sense some circular reasoning their. Your saying people should read the Bible and just know god exists? How does that logic work? Break it down for me. A person reading Romans chapter one is with no excuse is definitely circular logic. Your using someone denying chapter one as proof of its truth!?

If a person wants to know, how God reacts to certain things, Then studying the Bible will give them an idea where God stands on certain things.
Just going out looking at nature, isn't enough to know how God thinks about certain things.
Romans one, as well as other passages of the bible well let people know how God thinks about things.

The definition of the bible, Is the bible is a book that contains books. That's why its called the bible.
Books within a book.

The old testament came by the Prophet's of Israel. And the new testament came by 12 men that were chosen out of Israel by Christ Jesus himself.

So it's not just Romans one only that gives warnings, but also other parts of the Bible also gives warnings also.

But if people chooses not to heed the warnings, it's no sweat off my but.Whether they do or not or what they believe.

 

[idav]

If a person wants to know, how God reacts to certain things, Then studying the Bible will give them an idea where God stands on certain things.
Just going out looking at nature, isn't enough to know how God thinks about certain things.
Romans one, as well as other passages of the bible well let people know how God thinks about things.

The definition of the bible, Is the bible is a book that contains books. That's why its called the bible.
Books within a book.

The old testament came by the Prophet's of Israel. And the new testament came by 12 men that were chosen out of Israel by Christ Jesus himself.

So it's not just Romans one only that gives warnings, but also other parts of the Bible also gives warnings also.

But if people chooses not to heed the warnings, it's no sweat off my but.Whether they do or not or what they believe.

Excuse me but romans one is saying God is obvious and you don't even need a book.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Excuse me but romans one is saying God is obvious and you don't even need a book.

Then explain exactly how would you get to know a person and what they expect, If you don't read to study about that person.

Let's for say, Albert Einstein, explain how you would know about Albert Einstein, If you didn't have something to read to study about him.

What about Charles Darwin, How would you or anyone know about him, if they didn't have something to read or to study about him.

That's why we have the scriptures, to read and to study to know about God.

That's all quite simple enough.

 

[idav]

Then explain exactly how would you get to know a person and what they expect, If you don't read to study about that person.

Let's for say, Albert Einstein, explain how you would know about Albert Einstein, If you didn't have something to read to study about him.
What about Charles Darwin, How would you or anyone know about him, if they didn't have something to read or to study about him.

God is different from material things, if its God or should be obvious. Now if God wants to reveal some science to me that would be great.

 

[Faithofchristian]

God is different from material things, if its God or should be obvious. Now if God wants to reveal some science to me that would be great.

You just show your lack of knowledge. Really maybe if you took the time in studying the Bible you might find out more about science than you realize.

 

[idav]

You just show your lack of knowledge. Really maybe if you took the time in studying the Bible you might find out more about science than you realize.

The bible is about faith and things unseen, not science.

 

[Jumi]

You say homosexuals believe, That doesn't mean anything.
Now that's to funny.rofl

Yet you brought up the homosexuals... for who knows what reason? I can only try to guess. Are homosexuals the only people who think are the exception to 1:20 since you seem to have such imaginary view that they can't believe?

You saying Romans 1:20 is false.
Romans 1:20 Just convicts your guilt, of knowing that Atheists do not believe in God nor anything that has to do with God.

You're still not waking up. I'm not an atheist and the statement is still false.

Romans 1:27--32 Convicts homosexualls, That's why homosexualls guilt Convicts them.

Paul had his ideas that you've chosen to believe, because it's written, not because it's true.

The only reason you say Romans 1:20 is false, because your guilt convicts you. Knowing Romans 1:20 points you out.

This is akin to the vegan saying "The only reason you eat meat is because you hate animals" while providing no proof. You just want to believe 1:20 because you feel it gives you the right to judge unbelievers and avoid guilt over it. 1:20 is false. I know it is false, because I used to be an atheist for decades, never felt the slightest "guilt" that you chosen to believe. Never had any feeling that God's signs are there. Only through experiencing God did I change. No hidden signs, no invisible symbols, no people making up things about atheists convinced me.

 

[Jumi]

I don't care how it's used, I care about what it says. And it doesn't say that.

You must become blind so that you can see.

Is that what you believe it says. Well that's a new interpretation to me. Often it's used by Christians to insult non-believers.

I wonder what you think about @Faithofchristian 's view that it's about giving him right to judge other people as guilty conscience for something that "everyone is supposed to know, because Paul wrote so and his letter got in the Bible."