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My journey back to atheism

Dao Hao Now

Active Member
So you can’t bring yourself to admitting that your previous argument was flawed…
Then bring up a new argument about afterlife and use the Oprah Winfrey Show as your authoritative source…..
This explains a lot!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
So you can’t bring yourself to admitting that your previous argument was flawed…
Then bring up a new argument about afterlife and use the Oprah Winfrey Show as your authoritative source…..
This explains a lot!

Question... What was my previous argument that was flawed??
Oprah Winfrey Show people telling about their "near death experiences"!

There are many >>OTHER<< sources of the same thing.. "near death experiences".. Nothing about Oprah Winfrey as an authority!

Fact: There are many people who have had "Near Death Experiences"! Proving you do NOT know that there is NOT a God! All you have is a Belief a WISH that you are right!!

Dao Hao Now Like you....Your children have no HOPE in a afterlife; NO Hope in eternal life of happiness! Why do you care if they live in this evil world?!

Fact: Most people believe in a god MOST believe in a place of eternal bliss! Most believe in spirits good or bad!
Man has always believed in a god!
There are miracles that cannot be explained away...
...................................................
mir·a·cle
[ˈmirək(ə)l]
NOUN
miracles (plural noun)
  1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency:
    "the miracle of rising from the grave"
    synonyms:
    supernatural phenomenon · mystery · prodigy · sign
    • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences:
      "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"
    • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something:
      "a machine which was a miracle of design" ·
      wonder · marvel · sensation · phenomenon · astonishing feat · amazing
    • ....................................................................................................
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
So you can’t bring yourself to admitting that your previous argument was flawed…
Then bring up a new argument about afterlife and use the Oprah Winfrey Show as your authoritative source…..
This explains a lot!

Question... What was my previous argument that was flawed??
Oprah Winfrey Show people telling about their "near death experiences"!

There are many >>OTHER<< sources of the same thing.. "near death experiences".. Nothing about Oprah Winfrey as an authority!

Fact: There are many people who have had "Near Death Experiences"! Proving you do NOT know that there is NOT a God! All you have is a Belief a WISH that you are right!!

Dao Hao Now Like you....Your children have no HOPE in a afterlife; NO Hope in eternal life of happiness! Why do you care if they live in this evil world?!

Fact: Most people believe in a god MOST believe in a place of eternal bliss! Most believe in spirits good or bad!
Man has always believed in a god!
There are miracles that cannot be explained away...
...................................................
mir·a·cle
[ˈmirək(ə)l]
NOUN
miracles (plural noun)
  1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency:
    "the miracle of rising from the grave"
    synonyms:
    supernatural phenomenon · mystery · prodigy · sign
    • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences:
      "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"
    • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something:
      "a machine which was a miracle of design" ·
      wonder · marvel · sensation · phenomenon · astonishing feat · amazing
    • ....................................................................................................
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
That belief is irrational, as it uses a known logical fallacy, called a no true Scotsman fallacy. You are of course free to hold irrational beliefs, as is anyone. Why would one though, if one cares that what one believes is true, more than about the belief itself, then being deliberately irrational is self defeating.

Could a person be a scientist if he doesn't believe in science. I believe some things are definitive.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Could a person be a scientist if he doesn't believe in science.

You'd need to explain what you mean by "believe in" science means first, it seems semantically odd to me. Scientific efficacy and success can either be quantified and measured or it can't, the objective evidence suggests it is the latter.

I believe some things are definitive.

That's too vague sorry, what do you mean by "some things", and what relevance does them being reached decisively and with authority have?
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
So you can’t bring yourself to admitting that your previous argument was flawed…
Then bring up a new argument about afterlife and use the Oprah Winfrey Show as your authoritative source…..
This explains a lot!

Question... What was my previous argument that was flawed??
Oprah Winfrey Show people telling about their "near death experiences"!

There are many >>OTHER<< sources of the same thing.. "near death experiences".. Nothing about Oprah Winfrey as an authority!

Fact: There are many people who have had "Near Death Experiences"! Proving you do NOT know that there is NOT a God! All you have is a Belief a WISH that you are right!!

Dao Hao Now Like you....Your children have no HOPE in a afterlife; NO Hope in eternal life of happiness! Why do you care if they live in this evil world?!

Fact: Most people believe in a god MOST believe in a place of eternal bliss! Most believe in spirits good or bad!
Man has always believed in a god!
There are miracles that cannot be explained away...
...................................................
mir·a·cle
[ˈmirək(ə)l]
NOUN
miracles (plural noun)
  1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency:
    "the miracle of rising from the grave"
    synonyms:
    supernatural phenomenon · mystery · prodigy · sign
    • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences:
      "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"
    • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something:
      "a machine which was a miracle of design" ·
      wonder · marvel · sensation · phenomenon · astonishing feat · amazing
    • ....................................................................................................
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Josephus is not considered a reliable historical source since he often just repeated stories without verification of them being true. This is one reason why Jesus is not known to be a historical figure, the lack of contemporary reports or evidence.

Even if a Jesus did exist that would not mean the fantastic and implausible stories about him are true. Embellishment was common in that era.

I'm of the opinion that the stories written about Jesus were likely copied from ancient pagan religions that predate both the Bible and Christianity. For instance, the story of Jesus dying to redeem humanity and being resurrected from the dead on the third day isn't the first savior story of its kind. The Phrygian-Greek god of vegetation, Attis, was born of a virgin, was hung on a tree and died, descended into the underworld after his death, was resurrected after three days, and brought salvation with him in his rebirth. Sound familiar?

In this article, "Attis: Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Crucified and Resurrected after Three Days," there are a few other similarities between the stories written about Attis in Greek mythology and the stories written about Jesus in the Bible. In addition to the similar stories between Jesus and Attis, there are more similarities between the stories of Jesus' life and those of other Christlike figures from pagan religions that also predate the Bible and Christianity. In this article, "10 Christ-Like Figures that Predate Jesus," there are many examples of pagan Christlike figures whose stories parallel the life of Jesus, such as being born of a virgin, being tempted by the devil before an earthly ministry began, miraculously healing people, dying to save humanity, and being resurrected after three days. And here is another article on the same subject to read and consider: Other Gods That Rose From the Dead in Spring Before Jesus Christ.

Suffice it to say, I think it's reasonable to believe that paganism had a very significant influence on Christian beliefs and practices, and that this influence can be seen in the Bible, the stories about Jesus, and Christianity itself. There are plenty of other examples of how Christianity parallels pagan religions that predate it in this article: Parallels between Christianity and Ancient Pagan Religions. And this article has many examples too: The Bible is Fiction: A Collection of Evidence. In my opinion, I think it's very obvious that paganism had a significant influence on Christmas (see here) as well as Easter (see here). And finally, I don't think we should give the savior story of Jesus any more credence than the other Christlike stories I mentioned. In fact, I think these other stories clearly prove that Christianity isn't unique, despite the claims by Christians that the Bible is "God's Word" and that Christianity is the only true religion in the world.
 
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Sheldon

Veteran Member
Question... What was my previous argument that was flawed??
Oprah Winfrey Show people telling about their "near death experiences"!

There are many >>OTHER<< sources of the same thing.. "near death experiences".. Nothing about Oprah Winfrey as an authority!

Fact: There are many people who have had "Near Death Experiences"! Proving you do NOT know that there is NOT a God! All you have is a Belief a WISH that you are right!!

Dao Hao Now Like you....Your children have no HOPE in a afterlife; NO Hope in eternal life of happiness! Why do you care if they live in this evil world?!

Fact: Most people believe in a god MOST believe in a place of eternal bliss! Most believe in spirits good or bad!
Man has always believed in a god!
There are miracles that cannot be explained away...
...................................................
mir·a·cle
[ˈmirək(ə)l]
NOUN
miracles (plural noun)
  1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency:
    "the miracle of rising from the grave"
    synonyms:
    supernatural phenomenon · mystery · prodigy · sign
    • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences:
      "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"
    • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something:
      "a machine which was a miracle of design" ·
      wonder · marvel · sensation · phenomenon · astonishing feat · amazing
    • ....................................................................................................

All living experiences must necessarily be near to death, some more than others. It's simply hilarious to imagine that a dying brain, that is being starved of oxygen stores memories that are more accurate or reliable than an otherwise healthy brain.

People want to believe in superstition, resorting to mystery is easier than subjecting such nonsense to rigorous critical scrutiny.
 

Dao Hao Now

Active Member
Dogknox20,
My how soon we forget….
Perhaps if you spent less effort proclaiming YOUR beliefs and more time actually listening to what others tell you?

You recall your lack of belief in the Hindu gods
IN THE SAME WAY as you do Jesus disproves your proclamation that the fact a religion survives a length of time and continues to have adherents
that it proves those beliefs to be true….
don’t you?

As to afterlife claims….
If you believe the interpretations of these accounts are credible, and if you believe that one can only get to heaven by believing in Jesus;
How do you explain the near death experiences of Muslims, Hindis and others that report seeing their gods and heavens……they must be true, right?
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
All living experiences must necessarily be near to death, some more than others. It's simply hilarious to imagine that a dying brain, that is being starved of oxygen stores memories that are more accurate or reliable than an otherwise healthy brain.

People want to believe in superstition, resorting to mystery is easier than subjecting such nonsense to rigorous critical scrutiny.

So >>> YOU <<< Say!!!! .. But who are you!?
FACT: Miracles are attributed to God! >> There are Miracles!!!!

Sheldon Christians AND OTHERS believe in an after life! They have HOPE! YOU.....

You have no hope, you have given up on searching for the truth! You BELIEVE you are right.. Against all others!
YOU WISH you are right in your belief... But to what end? Giving your children NO hope! Teaching your Children there is NO HOPE!

I for one... Would not give up as easily as you have; I would try to give HOPE to my children...I would keep searching for the truth until my dying breath!
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
FACT: Miracles are attributed to God! >> There are Miracles!!!!

Nope, there are claims for miracles. A miracle is simply an appeal to mystery, an assumption that an inexplicable event requires divine agency. The claim itself has no explanatory powers whatsoever.

Sheldon Christians AND OTHERS believe in an after life! They have HOPE! YOU.....

That doesn't make the belief true. What about me, I find the notion I will survive my own physical death in any meaningful way to be absurd, if that's what you're asking.

You have no hope, you have given up on searching for the truth!

Neither of those claims is true.

You BELIEVE you are right.. Against all others!

Do you have anything besides these endless ad hominem fallacies?

YOU WISH you are right in your belief...

I don't what belief you're talking about, and I don't base belief on wishful thinking, as your posts suggest you are doing here.

But to what end?

I don't understand the question?

Giving your children NO hope! Teaching your Children there is NO HOPE!

I don't have any children.

I for one... Would not give up as easily as you have;

I have no idea what you mean by given up, but it seems like you're trying to set a record for straw man fallacies to me.

I would try to give HOPE to my children...I would keep searching for the truth until my dying breath!

I don't see any search for truth here, only delusional unevidenced wishful thinking. Can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity? Wishing it was so is meaningless.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
When I first joined this forum, I was way much more open to deism. But over the last few years and especially since the events of January 6th, I've become much more critical of all forms of superstition and delusional belief systems. When I was in my twenties I participated in the Usenet forum Christianity vs Atheism. At first, I argued the pro-atheist's position. Then, just for fun and because it was so challenging, I started arguing the deist position in the debate. And then something funny happened. I started to believe my own arguments for deism! So for many years I pretty much believed in God. But not now. God is just a word for me and its meaning only exists in our imaginations. Science is real. Facts are real. Everything else is imaginary delusion. It seems I've returned back to my atheistic roots of my childhood!

My other problem with religion is the way Christianity and politics have been combined in the GOP. The D students in the back of the class continue to think they are smarter than everyone else. The GOP rank and file want their STRONG daddy figure so they can worship him as if the person is God on Earth. It's almost like a cult. It's like the GOP authoritarians have been indoctrinated with a religion based on monarchy which advocates a single authority at the top with a bunch of obedient slaves at the bottom. With Trump, the GOP seems to want to return to a King James type government. King James believed in the divine rights of kings and wrote about it in his book "True Law of Free Monarchies." The divine right of kings claims: "In European Christianity, the divine right of kings, divine right, or God's mandation is a political and religious doctrine of political legitimacy of a monarchy. It stems from a specific metaphysical framework in which a monarch is, before birth, pre-ordained to inherit the crown. According to this theory of political legitimacy, the subjects of the crown have actively (and not merely passively) turned over the metaphysical selection of the king's soul – which will inhabit the body and rule them – to God. In this way, the "divine right" originates as a metaphysical act of humility and/or submission towards God. " The GOP doesn't believe in the rule-of-law, equality, no one is above or below the law, voting, democracy, and a fellowship of equal voters. The GOP wants STRONG leadership above every other consideration!

I just cannot accept the nature of modern day Christianity. I cannot accept the way the GOP puts STRONG leadership before the rule-of-law, equality, no one is above or below the law, voting, democracy, the fellowship that comes from considering everyone as being equals, and women's rights. I'm done with Christianity. I just can't stand it.

And even further, years ago I read Friedrich Nietzsche's criticisms of Christianity which really persuaded me against Christianity. Friedrich Nietzsche said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to get hold of what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made a virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfilment was what was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, sex, intellectual mastery, wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they wanted but were too weak to fight for to get while praising what they did not want but did have as being worth having. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness." The Bible is a worthless religion for sadomasochistic slaves. I simply refuse to be an obedient slave to any person or any belief system.

I still like Taoism and the Unity of Opposites. But as I said, after the events of January 6th, I just can't pretend the weak minded cultists are benign and meaningless any longer. I'm probably leaning back towards a strong minded pro-atheist position. Plus, arguing atheism is so much easier to argue than deism. Atheism is way more intellectually pleasing, logical, and consistent as a belief system. When you have the absence of belief, there's nothing left to argue about!
Huh? o_O This is just a rant that's a bit all over the place. It's a bit laughable that you allow a political party to so color your opinion of an ancient region that is so huge and varied. You obviously hated. Christianity for a while beforehand. Thanks for letting us know, I guess.

This part is interesting:
"And even further, years ago I read Friedrich Nietzsche's criticisms of Christianity which really persuaded me against Christianity. Friedrich Nietzsche said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to get hold of what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made a virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfilment was what was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, sex, intellectual mastery, wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they wanted but were too weak to fight for to get while praising what they did not want but did have as being worth having. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness." The Bible is a worthless religion for sadomasochistic slaves. I simply refuse to be an obedient slave to any person or any belief system."

I've heard neo-Fascists and "might is right" types say the same about Christianity. Careful you don't fall into that. Oh, well. Nietzsche died a syphilitic loon, anyway. Christianity is definitely the religion of underdogs, the forgotten, rejected and misfits. Unless you were royalty or an upper class man, your life didn't mean **** in Greco-Roman culture and their gods approved of this inequality. Christianity was a revolutionary movement, promoting the message of equality of souls before God to the world. They scandalized the Romans with their charity to all, including Pagans.
 
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Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Nope, there are claims for miracles. A miracle is simply an appeal to mystery, an assumption that an inexplicable event requires divine agency. The claim itself has no explanatory powers whatsoever.

That doesn't make the belief true. What about me, I find the notion I will survive my own physical death in any meaningful way to be absurd, if that's what you're asking.

Neither of those claims is true.

Do you have anything besides these endless ad hominem fallacies?

I don't what belief you're talking about, and I don't base belief on wishful thinking, as your posts suggest you are doing here.

I don't understand the question?

I don't have any children.

I have no idea what you mean by given up, but it seems like you're trying to set a record for straw man fallacies to me.

I don't see any search for truth here, only delusional unevidenced wishful thinking. Can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity? Wishing it was so is meaningless.

Sheldon GOOGLE it yourself... Look at the pictures of the staircase...on GOOGLE!

Legend of the Miraculous Loretto Chapel Staircase. Deep in the Southwestern United States is Santa Fe, the City of Holy Faith. It was here that in the 1800s seven nuns set up a school for girls, and when it was time, they built a chapel. This is where the legend of the Loretto Chapel staircase began, and ever since, faithful visitors have been flocking to the church to get a peek at the subject of the Santa Fe miracle – the chapel stairs.
The Story
Sometime around 1880, the entire order began to pray to St. Joseph – the patron saint of carpenters – to help with a solution for the chapel stairs. On the 9th day of prayer, a visitor arrived at their door with his mule and some tools. The first thing the man revealed to the Sisters was that he was a carpenter by trade. He was invited in and discovered the dilemma left behind with the untimely passing of the original architect. The solo workman, unlike many tradesmen that had a look prior to him, said that it was possible to construct a useful staircase to the loft without becoming an eyesore in the available space. The only condition he placed upon the Sisters was that he would have to work in private.

The Sisters were only too pleased to agree to these terms if it meant getting their staircase done. While they used the chapel for their own activities, the carpenter retreated – returning only when the chapel was empty. Some of the Sisters did state they saw wood soaking in tubs they provided for him. Reports made at the time do contradict one another. Some insist that construction was completed quickly, while others reported that it took longer than might have been necessary.

The Carpenter Disappears
When the spiral staircase was finished, the Sisters were delighted with how it turned out. So much so, that they organized a banquet in honor of the carpenter. This was when he was discovered missing. At no time during his work did he identify himself. He never asked for, nor received, payment for his labor or even supplies. Exactly who this man was is just one of the many mysteries surrounding the Loretto Chapel staircase.

Construction Mysteries
Another mystery is the construction of the Loretto staircase itself. There are no central column or support beams, and it appears that all the weight is self-supported at the base. The craftsman did not use nails or glue; he only used wooden pegs to secure the steps. Additionally, there were no railings. The legend says that some of the nuns were so afraid to descend the 22-foot drop that they would crawl down on their hands and knees. There are only 33 steps, however, the staircase wraps around 360 degrees twice. The number 33 is a significant number, being the age of Jesus at his crucifixion. The Sisters were adamant that it was Joseph himself that came to their rescue. Thus, people have given the stairs the nickname, St. Joseph’s Staircase.

When local trade suppliers were contacted in an effort to track this craftsman down, none of them could help inquiries in any way at all. No bill of sales could be retrieved and the lumber that was used was discovered to be of an unknown type. Whatever the wood that was used, it was not indigenous to the Santa Fe area.

A modern analysis revealed the wood to be spruce, but a variety that nobody was familiar with. It was concluded that the closest possible locale for wood of this type would have been somewhere like Alaska. Why would a Victorian carpenter transport scores of lumber with nothing more than a mule, just on the off-chance that it might be needed to build a staircase thousands of miles away?

Sorting Through the Fact and Fiction
As with all legends, there is some truth and some fiction to the story about the Loretto Chapel Staircase. Mary J. Straw Cook, a historian, researched the Sante Fe stairs for 7 years. She compiled enough evidence about the mysterious carpenter, that she was able to write a book called, “Loretto: The Seven Sisters and Their Santa Fe Chapel,” in 1984. Cook says that she found an entry in the nuns’ daybook dated 1881 which indicated that they had paid a man name Rochas “for wood.”

Cook also found an old newspaper article in The New Mexican that said Mr. Rochas had been shot in the chest in his Dog Canyon home, and that he had been a skilled woodworker who built the impressive Loretto Chapel staircase. According to Cook, Francois-Jean Rochas was a member of a French secret society of highly skilled craftsmen and artisans called the Compagnons, which has existed since the Middle Ages. Cook says that Rochas came to the U.S. specifically to build the Sante Fe staircase and that he had the wood shipped from France. Mr. Rochas is buried at the Our Lady of the Light Catholic Cemetery.

Francois Jean Rochas may have built the Loretto Chapel staircase. Source: Findagrave.com, John Worman.

The Persisting Miracle
The inspirational legend resulted in the creation of books and a 1998 movie, called The Staircase, starring Barbara Hershey and William Petersen. While some of the legends may have been demystified with information about its supposed builder, many people who have seen the stairs claim this makes it no less of a miracle. Where did the inspiration and knowledge come from to build a stunning staircase that still impresses even the best craftsmen around today?

What cannot be debated is the marvelous work of art that was left behind. It can still be seen today, but the chapel is more of a corporate venue and museum these days. Significant events of a religious nature – such as weddings – can still be conducted there. Most visitors do actually come just to see the Loretto Chapel staircase that some have dubbed as miraculous.

You May Also Like:
The Sword in the Stone at Monte Siepi Chapel
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Nope, there are claims for miracles. A miracle is simply an appeal to mystery, an assumption that an inexplicable event requires divine agency. The claim itself has no explanatory powers whatsoever.

Sheldon the Atheist rejects life eternal.. They have NO Hope in an after life!
A person without "Hope" is with "Despair"!
.............................................................................................
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

de·spair
/dəˈsper/

Learn to pronounce

noun

  1. the complete loss or absence of hope.
    "in despair, I hit the bottle"

    Similar:
    hopelessness

    desperation
    in desperation" data-hw="desperation" data-lb="" data-tae="true" data-te="false" data-tl="en-US" data-tldf="" data-url="/search?q=define+desperation&forcedict=desperation&dictcorpus=en-US">
    distress

    anguish
    in anguish" data-hw="anguish" data-lb="" data-tae="true" data-te="false" data-tl="en-US" data-tldf="" data-url="/search?q=define+anguish&forcedict=anguish&dictcorpus=en-US">
    pain
    unhappiness
    dejection
    depression
    despondency
    disconsolateness
    gloom
    melancholy
    melancholia
    misery
    wretchedness
    disheartenment
    discouragement
    resignedness
    forlornness
    defeatism
    pessimism

    Opposite:
    hope
    joy
verb
  1. lose or be without hope.
    "we should not despair"
    ..............................................................................................
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Huh? o_O This is just a rant that's a bit all over the place. It's a bit laughable that you allow a political party to so color your opinion of an ancient region that is so huge and varied. You obviously hated. Christianity for a while beforehand. Thanks for letting us know, I guess.

This part is interesting:
"And even further, years ago I read Friedrich Nietzsche's criticisms of Christianity which really persuaded me against Christianity. Friedrich Nietzsche said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to get hold of what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made a virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfilment was what was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, sex, intellectual mastery, wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they wanted but were too weak to fight for to get while praising what they did not want but did have as being worth having. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness." The Bible is a worthless religion for sadomasochistic slaves. I simply refuse to be an obedient slave to any person or any belief system."

I've heard neo-Fascists and "might is right" types say the same about Christianity. Careful you don't fall into that. Oh, well. Nietzsche died a syphilitic loon, anyway. Christianity is definitely the religion of underdogs, the forgotten, rejected and misfits. Unless you were royalty or an upper class man, your life didn't mean **** in Greco-Roman culture and their gods approved of this inequality. Christianity was a revolutionary movement, promoting the message of equality of souls before God to the world. They scandalized the Romans with their charity to all, including Pagans.
Christians torn apart by lions for not giving up their faith.

Nietzsche, "These people are weak."
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Huh? o_O This is just a rant that's a bit all over the place. It's a bit laughable that you allow a political party to so color your opinion of an ancient region that is so huge and varied. You obviously hated. Christianity for a while beforehand. Thanks for letting us know, I guess.
I've heard neo-Fascists and "might is right" types say the same about Christianity. Careful you don't fall into that. Oh, well. Nietzsche died a syphilitic loon, anyway. Christianity is definitely the religion of underdogs, the forgotten, rejected and misfits. Unless you were royalty or an upper class man, your life didn't mean **** in Greco-Roman culture and their gods approved of this inequality. Christianity was a revolutionary movement, promoting the message of equality of souls before God to the world. They scandalized the Romans with their charity to all, including Pagans.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. And thank you for your warning about falling "into that.". I am an FDR Democrat. I believe no one is above the law and no one is below the law. I stand for everyone has equal rights under the law and no one should experience the law any differently because of bigotry and prejudice. The golden rule is paramount with regards to how people should be treated in any situation.

But what is going on the Republican party is something very different. King James did not have an egalitarian bone in his body. The King James Bible is a form of political indoctrination in my opinion. Monarchy is just an earlier form of fascism and white supremacy. I find it just too coincidental that God's chosen form of divine government is the exact type of government King James wanted or promoted. You would think an omnipotent God with unlimited powers and blessings would be slightly more egalitarian in His chosen form of divine government. I think this matters in the way Republicans are fixated on having a STRONG daddy figure as their leader who is uncompromising and demands loyalty and obedience to authority above all other considerations.

Worshiping a charismatic leader as if the guy is God on earth, to me, is opposite of democracy. What the Republicans want is King James style monarchy.

In terms of atheism, It's not that I'm so much against the teachings of Christ as I am against the people obsessed with being a slave to the Lord. As a atheist and as a Democrat, I'm just not going to bend my knee to any man who claims to speak for God. I just don't worship or exult leaders this way. To me a leader in the party is just someone who promotes the party platform which comes from consensus and voting. As a Democrat, who is the leader is just a facilitator for gathering the votes of all the people who were participating in the discussion.

I agree with your idea, "Christianity was a revolutionary movement, promoting the message of equality of souls before God to the world." In my opinion, I don't think Jesus was crucified because he was splitting hairs over the finer interpretations of Jewish scripture. I think Jesus was crucified because he was probably claiming you don't have to buy your absolution from the temple but instead anyone can achieve salvation by seeking the authority of God from within. Taking away the cash cow of the Pharisees would have got you crucified back then is the way I see it.
 
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