My new (old) faith: the Collective Enlightenment.

[an anarchist]

If I am spiritual, it is because I believe in the collective enlightenment (CE). I’ve talked about my conception of the CE plenty of times, starting with my “hi I’m a new member” thread.

Suffering is not inevitable. My belief holds firm. This time around, for my mental health and well being, I won’t be actively trying to start the CE. Instead, I will rather passively support the trajectory towards the CE through being moral and loving. The gods and people I require to worship for this task are different than the ones I sought before to invoke the CE.

Hey saint franky, I’m just using this quote as a launch pad for this thread, hope ya don’t mind

We can never overcome Nature

Take this quoted phrase as it is. It means what it says I think, and if not, let pretend it means what I think it is saying for the sake of discussion.

We can never overcome nature implies we are bound to suffering as well as death. Physically bound. Literally bound. But is the binding permanent and inevitable? Or can we transcend above suffering? Physically and literally transcend? I think so. We can’t get from point A to point Z without going through points B-Y first, so I understand if the physical and literal ascension above suffering seems… implausible.

How do we get to point Z, the point beyond suffering? By figuring out what point A is. What is point A? Love is love is love. Be nice to each other. Love one another. It seems so simple yet humanity fails this on a global scale. If man truly loved one another, the world would not be how it is presently. So, for my part, I will focus on being a beacon of love and peace for my spiritual practice.

We can debate two points I think.
1) the efficacy of love in the alleviation of suffering
2) the possibility to literally/physically transcend suffering

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If I am spiritual, it is because I believe in the collective enlightenment (CE). I’ve talked about my conception of the CE plenty of times, starting with my “hi I’m a new member” thread.

Suffering is not inevitable.

Try preaching that vapid message to those who are suffering. Having spent time helping out in homeless shelters and being helped out in cancer wards, permit me to suggest a much greater need for collective empathy (CE).

 

[an anarchist]

Try preaching that vapid message to those who are suffering. Having spent time helping out in homeless shelters and being helped out in cancer wards, permit me to suggest a much greater need for collective empathy (CE).

You and your adjectives lol.
I do not disagree we need collective empathy. In fact I fully agree. That is part of love.

 

[an anarchist]

I hope this does not come across as preaching as implied by @Jayhawker Soule . I do not intend to proselytize. In good faith, I present my beliefs up for scrutiny and debate. Is there another way I am supposed to approach religious debate?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I hope this does not come across as preaching as implied by @Jayhawker Soule .

Let me tell you how it comes across. You are telling those who experience suffering that they are to be faulted for that suffering and for the consequent suffering of those they impact. It is a thoughtless, if not cruel, pop-psychology which I encourage you to rethink.

 

[an anarchist]

Let me tell you how it comes across. You are telling those who experience suffering that they are to be faulted for that suffering and for the consequent suffering of those they impact. It is a thoughtless, if not cruel, pop-psychology which I encourage you to rethink.

Well, that’s how you perceive it anyway. I encourage you to rethink.
Edit: if you keep hurling untrue and mean adjectives at me such as “thoughtless” I will add you to my ignore list again. It turns me off from conversation when I am being genuine and you are being mean. It’s your modus operandi so I’ll give you only one more chance. Be mean again and you won’t get to participate in conversations with me, which is more your loss than mine.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If I am spiritual, it is because I believe in the collective enlightenment (CE). I’ve talked about my conception of the CE plenty of times, starting with my “hi I’m a new member” thread.

Suffering is not inevitable. My belief holds firm. This time around, for my mental health and well being, I won’t be actively trying to start the CE. Instead, I will rather passively support the trajectory towards the CE through being moral and loving. The gods and people I require to worship for this task are different than the ones I sought before to invoke the CE.

Hey saint franky, I’m just using this quote as a launch pad for this thread, hope ya don’t mind

Take this quoted phrase as it is. It means what it says I think, and if not, let pretend it means what I think it is saying for the sake of discussion.

We can never overcome nature implies we are bound to suffering as well as death. Physically bound. Literally bound. But is the binding permanent and inevitable? Or can we transcend above suffering? Physically and literally transcend? I think so. We can’t get from point A to point Z without going through points B-Y first, so I understand if the physical and literal ascension above suffering seems… implausible.

How do we get to point Z, the point beyond suffering? By figuring out what point A is. What is point A? Love is love is love. Be nice to each other. Love one another. It seems so simple yet humanity fails this on a global scale. If man truly loved one another, the world would not be how it is presently. So, for my part, I will focus on being a beacon of love and peace for my spiritual practice.

We can debate two points I think.
1) the efficacy of love in the alleviation of suffering
2) the possibility to literally/physically transcend suffering

You still sound very Christian. Lol. Have you ever considered just going to a more liberal Christian church that is accepting of LGBT people? Plenty of those around, and they're popular with urban millennials. They focus on the parts of the religion about love, social justice, etc.

 

[an anarchist]

You still sound very Christian. Lol. Have you ever considered just going to a more liberal Christian church that is accepting of LGBT people? Plenty of those around, and they're popular with urban millennials. They focus on the parts of the religion about love, social justice, etc.

But I don’t believe in a God Jesus Christ or the Bible? I don’t see how I’m Christian in any means other than the overlap of some positive aspects of Christianity which are often found in many religions.

What you are saying makes as much sense as saying I’m a Bahai or Muslim. It just sort of comes out of nowhere in my opinion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But I don’t believe in a God Jesus Christ or the Bible? I don’t see how I’m Christian in any means other than the overlap of some positive aspects of Christianity which are often found in many religions.

What you are saying makes as much sense as saying I’m a Bahai or Muslim. It just sort of comes out of nowhere in my opinion.

Your worldview is Christian. You believe the world is broken with suffering and death and that it needs to be redeemed through love. That's basically Christianity, just without saying the words "God" and "Jesus". It's strange you haven't noticed that.

 

[an anarchist]

Your worldview is Christian. You believe the world is broken with suffering and death and that it needs to be redeemed through love. That's basically Christianity, just without saying the words "God" and "Jesus". It's strange you haven't noticed that.

No, it’s just more of a common theme in religion than you think I’d say. The victory over death and suffering through love or some other way is not unique to Christianity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, it’s just more of a common theme in religion than you think I’d say. The victory over death and suffering through love is not unique to Christianity.

It pretty much is. I'm not aware of any other religion teaching that, and I know the basics of most all of them.

 

[an anarchist]

It pretty much is. I'm not aware of any other religion teaching that, and I know the basics of most all of them.

Confucianism
Taosim
I am comfortable with saying these two because I am quite familiar with them. I am less familiar with Buddhism but I’d say Buddhism too.

They have different flavors of how we can end or alleviate suffering, but it comes down to being loving in one way or the other.

Zoroastrianism too perhaps. Being a moral agent in order to literally end suffering is part of the belief system.

Hinduism with the system of karma.

Like, most of them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Confucianism
Taosim
I am comfortable with saying these two because I am quite familiar with them. I am less familiar with Buddhism but I’d say Buddhism too.

They have different flavors of how we can end or alleviate suffering, but it comes down to being loving in one way or the other.

Zoroastrianism too perhaps. Being a moral agent in order to literally end suffering is part of the belief system.

Hinduism with the system of karma.

Like, most of them.

Listen, I know you're not going to agree with me because you're mad at Christianity and are trying to force yourself away from it. But the truth is that most people in the West have an inherently Christian worldview because it has been the dominating force in the Western world for literally centuries, regardless of whether they practice the religion or even view themselves as Christian. Pretty much all Westerners until very recent years were born into Christian families and belonged to one church or another. It's not something you can really get around, and it's difficult to identify and remove the Christian influences from your worldview. It's something that has to be a conscious endeavor for most who wish to truly leave Christianity behind. Even a lot of practicing Pagans still have a Christian morality.

This also seeps into our understanding of religions and many non-Western religions have been watered down and Christianized in their presentation to Westerners (the New Age movement being an example of that). I don't known what you've read about those other religions, but using love to overcome death is a pretty specific claim. Sure, various religions talk about suffering and what can be done about it. But it's usually about their own suffering, as such things are viewed as part of the workings of the universe and part of an eternal cycle, as in the Dharmic and other Asian religions. They would not describe the world as broken. (Although Bodhisattvas may put off Nirvana for themselves to help other beings, the cycle will still never end.)

But regardless, I was referring to the totality of your claims there, not just parts of them. Because of course different religions have some similar ideas here and there. But all of your views you stated taken together seem indistinguishable from Christianity. That's just what I see.

I am also speaking from experience. I went through being a devout Christian, losing faith in it, being mad at it and then going through the process of leaving it behind and finally embracing another worldview which is far from Christian/Abrahamic belief. So I know how it is. It can be very hard to see these influences in ourselves.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Suffering is not inevitable

Try preaching that vapid message to those who are suffering. Having spent time helping out in homeless shelters and being helped out in cancer wards, permit me to suggest a much greater need for collective empathy (CE).

Try telling that to a mother.

It is denying logic, to make such a statement.

Regards Tony

 

[an anarchist]

It can be very hard to see these influences in ourselves.

This is very true. When I studied other religions, I always read the message that love was most important. But it could very well be my Christian lens, I am no expert in other religions. I am most studied in Christianity.

 

[an anarchist]

Try telling that to a mother.

It is denying logic, to make such a statement.

Regards Tony

Bahais believe in a future of peace, right? I am not too familiar with Bahai theology. Do you guys believe in an eventual and literal heaven on earth?

I am not saying we can eradicate suffering in this generation, or the next. But sometime in the future, if we play our cards right, I believe it can be done.

 

[ppp]

Bahais believe in a future of peace, right? I am not too familiar with Bahai theology. Do you guys believe in an eventual and literal heaven on earth?

I am not saying we can eradicate suffering in this generation, or the next. But sometime in the future, if we play our cards right, I believe it can be done.

Indeed. The eradication of survival insecurities would be a greater start. Food. Water. Shelter. Medical.

 

[Kathryn]

If I am spiritual, it is because I believe in the collective enlightenment (CE). I’ve talked about my conception of the CE plenty of times, starting with my “hi I’m a new member” thread.

Suffering is not inevitable. My belief holds firm. This time around, for my mental health and well being, I won’t be actively trying to start the CE. Instead, I will rather passively support the trajectory towards the CE through being moral and loving. The gods and people I require to worship for this task are different than the ones I sought before to invoke the CE.

Hey saint franky, I’m just using this quote as a launch pad for this thread, hope ya don’t mind

Take this quoted phrase as it is. It means what it says I think, and if not, let pretend it means what I think it is saying for the sake of discussion.

We can never overcome nature implies we are bound to suffering as well as death. Physically bound. Literally bound. But is the binding permanent and inevitable? Or can we transcend above suffering? Physically and literally transcend? I think so. We can’t get from point A to point Z without going through points B-Y first, so I understand if the physical and literal ascension above suffering seems… implausible.

How do we get to point Z, the point beyond suffering? By figuring out what point A is. What is point A? Love is love is love. Be nice to each other. Love one another. It seems so simple yet humanity fails this on a global scale. If man truly loved one another, the world would not be how it is presently. So, for my part, I will focus on being a beacon of love and peace for my spiritual practice.

We can debate two points I think.
1) the efficacy of love in the alleviation of suffering
2) the possibility to literally/physically transcend suffering

LOL you say "suffering" like it's a bad thing.

 

[ppp]

LOL you say "suffering" like it's a bad thing.

It is

 

[Kathryn]

It is

It can be but it can also make you a stronger, better person.