My sister got saved last night

[URAVIP2ME]

.............Proverbs 4:18 is talking about behaviour and not understanding of doctrine.

Well then let's ttry Psalms 119:105.
God's Word (Scripture) is like a flash light to our immediate path and like HIGH BEAMS to the future ahead of us.

P.S. God disposed of Jesus' physical body just as God disposed of Moses physical body. ( No longer needed for any reason )

 

[Samael_Khan]

Well then let's ttry Psalms 119:105.
God's Word (Scripture) is like a flash light to our immediate path and like HIGH BEAMS to the future ahead of us.

P.S. God disposed of Jesus' physical body just as God disposed of Moses physical body. ( No longer needed for any reason )

Psalm 119:105 is also talking about behaviour and not doctrine. Just read the context.

Saying that God disposed of Jesus body like Moses is just eisegesis and not backed up by the context. The logical progression of the gospels is that Jesus body was resurrected bodily.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Rapture was Not about any physical body dematerialising into a spirit body.
Death precedes resurrection of the anointed.
There is No biblical rapture that suddenly Christians will be taken above with automobile drivers, pilots, etc. being snatched out of vehicles.
Such a teaching is that Christians don't expect to be around Earth much longer. (hogwash)
So, we need to know just what is the purpose to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
We are Not instructed to pray to be ' taken up' to Jesus, Nor pray to be ' taken away ' to Jesus, but for Jesus to come!
Not a physical return because Jesus informed us that his return would Not be physical according to John14:19.

Rather, Jesus' return is in the sense of giving his attention to Earth and to undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon Earth.
Attention in the sense that Jesus' resurrects those who join him in heavenly rule - Revelation 5:9-10; 2:10
Remember: those who are dead in Christ will rise first meaning they have that first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6
Those living on Earth are ' gathered ', so to speak, before Jesus as per Matthew 25:31-33; Revelation 12:7-12; Psalms 37:9-11.
The figurative ' sheep ' have the scriptural hope of going through, Not ' going up' in the great tribulation on Earth - Revelation 7:9, 14
Prophet Isaiah saw No rapture at Isaiah 26:20.

OK. So then you are saying that the JW Organisations understanding is wrong.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Saying that God disposed of Jesus body like Moses is just eisegesis and not backed up by the context. The logical progression of the gospels is that Jesus body was resurrected bodily.

If Jesus had a physical body then how does one explain the resurrected Jesus was Not recognized - Mark 16:1-8; John 20:11-14
The woman follower of Jesus did Not recognize the risen Jesus thinking Jesus was the gardener - John 20:15-17.
This follows the logical progression of the gospels as also found at Luke 24:16-39.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

OK. So then you are saying that the JW Organisations understanding is wrong.

No rapture www.jw.org

 

[Samael_Khan]

No rapture www.jw.org

You believe that the anointed will be taken up therefore you believe in the rapture. You are just trying to avoid the word because you don't want to use a term that other Christian groups use as per the highlighted part below:

"15 Does this mean that there will be a “rapture” of the anointed? Many people in Christendom believe that Christians will be taken to heaven in a human body. They also think that they will see Jesus visibly return to rule the earth. However, the Bible clearly shows that Jesus’ return is invisible when it says: “The sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven” and, Jesus will come “on the clouds of heaven.” (Matthew 24:30) The Bible also says that “flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom.” So those who will be taken to heaven will first need to be “changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” * (See footnote.) (Read 1 Corinthians 15:50-53.) We do not use the word “rapture” here to describe this event because of its connection to Christendom’s false teaching. However, the faithful anointed still on earth will be gathered together instantly."

In any case this is semantics. The organisation certainly do believe that the anointed will be caught up in the clouds as per 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Also, the word rapture just means "we are taken away". The word comes from a French translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17:

Etymology[edit]
Rapture is derived from Middle French rapture, via the Medieval Latin raptura ("seizure, kidnapping"), which derives from the Latin raptus ("a carrying off").[13]

Greek[edit]
The Koine Greek of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 uses the verb form ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagisometha), which means "we shall be caught up" or "taken away," with the connotation that this is a sudden event. The dictionary form of this Greek verb is harpazō (ἁρπάζω).[14] This use is also seen in such texts as Acts 8:39, 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, and Revelation 12:5.

Latin[edit]
The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek ἁρπαγησόμεθα as rapiemur[15] meaning "we are caught up" or "we are taken away" from the Latin verb rapio meaning "to catch up" or "take away".[16]

 

[Samael_Khan]

If Jesus had a physical body then how does one explain the resurrected Jesus was Not recognized - Mark 16:1-8; John 20:11-14
The woman follower of Jesus did Not recognize the risen Jesus thinking Jesus was the gardener - John 20:15-17.
This follows the logical progression of the gospels as also found at Luke 24:16-39.

Jesus specifically says that he isn't a spirit but flesh and bone in the below verse. So he was resurrected bodily.

"And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:38-39).

Other verses referring to Jesus physical body being resurrected:

"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body." (John 2:19-21).

Then he also showed them his hands and feet, physical things which were affected by his torturous death and he ate.As per Mark 16, the stone was moved away from the entrance of the tomb. There would have been no need for this if he was just a spirit, but it makes sense if he was in a physical body.

John 29:11-14: Mary was weeping so her eyes were blurred from the tears. Verse 15 -17 refers to the same event. It is also pretty obvious that his followers thought he was dead and was not expecting him to be resurrected, so they wouldn't recognize him because they expect him to be gone. They would have thought it was someone else. The conversation in Luke 24:16-39 proves my point. Also look at verse 16 which says that "there eyes were kept from recognizing him", which implies that something was messing with their eyes, not that it had anything to do with his physical appearance.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Luke 24:31....; and he (resurrected Jesus ) vanished out of their sight. Disappeared because it was a post-resurrection appearance.
Doors were locked and Jesus came and stood in their midst.
So, through locked doors Jesus appeared as per John 20:19; John 20:26 doors again closed shut.
No rapture for anyone, but resurrection 1 Corinthians 15:50 - www.jw.org

 

[Samael_Khan]

Luke 24:31....; and he (resurrected Jesus ) vanished out of their sight. Disappeared because it was a post-resurrection appearance.
Doors were locked and Jesus came and stood in their midst.
So, through locked doors Jesus appeared as per John 20:19; John 20:26 doors again closed shut.
No rapture for anyone, but resurrection 1 Corinthians 15:50 - www.jw.org

1st Corinthians doesn't contradict the rapture idea. The idea is that there are new bodies in awaiting people in heaven.

And I repeat Jesus words:

"And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:38-39).

He says:

a) He is NOT a spirit
b) That he has flesh and bones
c)Spirits do NOT have flesh and bone

So, based on this, you are contradicting Jesus words.

 

[Riders]

Jesus specifically says that he isn't a spirit but flesh and bone in the below verse. So he was resurrected bodily.

"And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:38-39).

Other verses referring to Jesus physical body being resurrected:

"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body." (John 2:19-21).

Then he also showed them his hands and feet, physical things which were affected by his torturous death and he ate.As per Mark 16, the stone was moved away from the entrance of the tomb. There would have been no need for this if he was just a spirit, but it makes sense if he was in a physical body.

John 29:11-14: Mary was weeping so her eyes were blurred from the tears. Verse 15 -17 refers to the same event. It is also pretty obvious that his followers thought he was dead and was not expecting him to be resurrected, so they wouldn't recognize him because they expect him to be gone. They would have thought it was someone else. The conversation in Luke 24:16-39 proves my point. Also look at verse 16 which says that "there eyes were kept from recognizing him", which implies that something was messing with their eyes, not that it had anything to do with his physical appearance.

He would've been bleeding out had he been raise dup in his body, his body was a raw meat sack by the time the crucifixtion was done, how do you think he could've been raised bodily?

 

[Samael_Khan]

He would've been bleeding out had he been raise dup in his body, his body was a raw meat sack by the time the crucifixtion was done, how do you think he could've been raised bodily?

Jesus was a sacrifice. In the OT the blood of the sacrifice had to be bled out on the ground in order for the blood to be acceptable. So Jesus would have been drained of blood.

Also notice that Jesus says "flesh and bone" and not "flesh and blood".

So Jesus was a living "raw meat sack".

But his resurrection was also a miracle according to the narrative so a number of other things could have happened as well.

 

[Jimmy]

I was talking to my sister just awhile ago. She was telling me that everyone has this "click." That once people get life, they will understand everything. That was fine, then after she was talking more, she was more everyone is going to click to get god. The weird thing was, though, was that it was hard for her to see outside of this-that people's click isn't hers. Then she says, "I have the answers. I'm just planting the seed..." it spell bounded me.

She invited me to see her (we haven't met in awhile) and my mother together since we're so spread out. Then it dawned on me, she wanted us to meet so she can plant the seed, and "answer any questions we may have." I told her I didn't want to stay with her if I knew she was going to preach to me. (I think she said she was a preacher of some sort-I asked because of the language and tone) We're going to meet, but now I know the intent, I just feel it's inappropriate to stay with her (and my mother) knowing that my mother and I are not god believers.

Something about being saved just ignites people to spread the news. It's one thing to spread the good news. When I had a girlfriend, I spread the good news too. But it's another to convince people their good news is supposed to be yours. She mentioned people just don't get it.

I cannot imagine anyone going through a household where the good news is always being spread while saying, "its your choice" at the same time. She says that we all get it but we're saying it in different languages (religions and perspectives).

But what got me was she said she got all the answers. She said she was humble and that's how she got the answers.

I've always been flabbergasted over this type of thinking. Even on RF, people just. don't. get it.

yes I'll confess i tried to preach a little here on RF, very little. And I do recognize it's wrong. I think you're right people may get a little excited and start preaching.
my bad

 

[Unveiled Artist]

yes I'll confess i tried to preach a little here on RF, very little. And I do recognize it's wrong. I think you're right people may get a little excited and start preaching.
my bad

I found out this was a bit more different than preaching. It's a full blown cult (can't think of a better word) thing. But yeah, I met one friend who converted from a Muslim to Christian. She kept asking why I didn't believe in god. She also said why would I decide to live in a christian-dominated housing complex if I weren't christian. (More practical reasons without regards to religion). I'm not really sure why many many christians feel the need to preach, convert, or however they call it. It doesn't need to be mean or over demanding. It could be just inviting the person to church. Join "me" with this church program we're doing. Are you making it Sunday? I'll pick you up.

I never noted you preaching, though. I have other people in mind but, well, ...

 

[Jimmy]

I found out this was a bit more different than preaching. It's a full blown cult (can't think of a better word) thing. But yeah, I met one friend who converted from a Muslim to Christian. She kept asking why I didn't believe in god. She also said why would I decide to live in a christian-dominated housing complex if I weren't christian. (More practical reasons without regards to religion). I'm not really sure why many many christians feel the need to preach, convert, or however they call it. It doesn't need to be mean or over demanding. It could be just inviting the person to church. Join "me" with this church program we're doing. Are you making it Sunday? I'll pick you up.

I never noted you preaching, though. I have other people in mind but, well, ...

Well It got taken down. Was a couple sentences praising God and his son and I basically said other people would benefit from them as I have.