My sister got saved last night

[Samael_Khan]

I find God's Kingdom mentioned at Daniel 2:44; Daniel 7:18 is associated with Jesus' words at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.

While on Earth Jesus informed his disciple the ' end ' would Not be in their lifetime as mentioned at Luke 19:11-15.
Also, gospel writer John wrote at the very end of the first century, so John's writings don't apply to the first century.

Luke 19:11-15 doesn't say anything about the end not happening at the end of their lifetime, just that it wouldn't happen immediately. In fact the parable seems to imply the opposite. If Jesus is the Nobleman then the servants who did the business on his behalf when they left would be the same servants that he would meet on his return.

What I find interesting is that in my NKJV, the gospels were completed by 33AD. I am sure I heard that they were written later.

Even if John was expecting the end to come after 100AD, which he would have evidently thought since he lived that long after the temples destruction, that doesn't tell us what they believed before the temples destruction.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Islam teaches very similar things regarding these matters. Interestingly, you Quoted Psalms and the Quran itself said in one verse what is written on Psalms regarding this topic. Just notice how the same words are used!
"Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth." Quran 21vs105

Yes, I am aware about the point of inheriting the Earth ( SURAH XXI vs 105 ) and ( SURAH XXXIX vss 73-74 ) about inheriting the land and abide in the garden....
Just as the animals were at peace with mankind in the garden of Eden, so it shall be again according to Ezekiel 34:25; Isaiah 11:6-9.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Luke 19:11-15 doesn't say anything about the end not happening at the end of their lifetime, just that it wouldn't happen immediately. In fact the parable seems to imply the opposite. If Jesus is the Nobleman then the servants who did the business on his behalf when they left would be the same servants that he would meet on his return.
What I find interesting is that in my NKJV, the gospels were completed by 33AD. I am sure I heard that they were written later.
Even if John was expecting the end to come after 100AD, which he would have evidently thought since he lived that long after the temples destruction, that doesn't tell us what they believed before the temples destruction.

Interesting post ^above ^ and perhaps what is recorded at Luke 21:20-21could help about what they believed before the temple's destruction.
The Christians would have known what Jesus said in the year 33 and what to do when Roman armies would come.
In 66 CE when the Roman armies arrived and the Christians left Jerusalem, so when the armies returned in the year 70 CE faithful Christians had already left Jerusalem.

This was the 'minor' fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24 and Luke chapter 21.
The "MAJOR" fulfillment is or our day or time frame - Revelation 1:10

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, Jesus did associate himself with the Son of Man in Daniel and the Kingdom mentioned there. But from what I can tell he was thinking that the end would come within the lifetime of his disciples.

Gospel writer John wrote at the end of the first century, and Revelation was set for the future - Revelation 1:10.
John invites us all to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come!
There would be No need to pray that invitation if Jesus already came.
If Jesus already came there would already be ' healing ' for earth's nations as mentioned at Revelation 22:2.
We would already see the end of ' enemy death ' as mentioned at 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[Samael_Khan]

Interesting post ^above ^ and perhaps what is recorded at Luke 21:20-21could help about what they believed before the temple's destruction.
The Christians would have known what Jesus said in the year 33 and what to do when Roman armies would come.
In 66 CE when the Roman armies arrived and the Christians left Jerusalem, so when the armies returned in the year 70 CE faithful Christians had already left Jerusalem.

This was the 'minor' fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24 and Luke chapter 21.
The "MAJOR" fulfillment is or our day or time frame - Revelation 1:10

Exegetically there isn't a direct connection between the context of Matthew 24/Luke 21 and Revelation 1:10. You would have to show where the gospels say that Matthew 24 and Luke 21 would have a minor and major fulfillment, otherwise the premise becomes an assumption.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Gospel writer John wrote at the end of the first century, and Revelation was set for the future - Revelation 1:10.
John invites us all to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come!
There would be No need to pray that invitation if Jesus already came.
If Jesus already came there would already be ' healing ' for earth's nations as mentioned at Revelation 22:2.
We would already see the end of ' enemy death ' as mentioned at 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

I am in no way saying that the prophecies have been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. And I am not discounting that Jesus had a certain view, and when he died, his apostles started believing that he was in heaven and waiting his return. I would think that this happened as soon as he died.

There is also the preterist view of thos scriptures you mention which rely more on context.

Also I am reading the books as individual books, each with their own context, which would have been the case in the time they were written. So when you quote Revelation, I don't see it matching Matthew 24 and Luke 21 because of their context.

 

[Shia Islam]

Just as the animals were at peace with mankind in the garden of Eden, so it shall be again according to Ezekiel 34:25; Isaiah 11:6-9.

We have Hadiths saying similar things of the above

 

[Riders]

Well I do not agree with the Christians here who say it goes away after she gets wisdom. If she's in a normal church yes.But if she's in a Pentecostal church or a zealous church that is very strict she may stay like that, its like brainwash.
So what church did she join?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Exegetically there isn't a direct connection between the context of Matthew 24/Luke 21 and Revelation 1:10. You would have to show where the gospels say that Matthew 24 and Luke 21 would have a minor and major fulfillment, otherwise the premise becomes an assumption.

in brief, the great tribulation of Matthew 24 is in connection to Revelation 7:14,9.
The minor fullfillment came in the year 70 on unfaithful Jerusalem.
Christendom ( so-called Christian ) is the fake ' weed/tares ' Christians who grow together with the genuine ' wheat ' Christians until the Harvest Time.
The Harvest Time or the soon coming Separating Time as per Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
The MAJOR fulfillment is also in connection to 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
The powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security..." but that is just the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am in no way saying that the prophecies have been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. And I am not discounting that Jesus had a certain view, and when he died, his apostles started believing that he was in heaven and waiting his return. I would think that this happened as soon as he died.............

Perhaps many think Jesus went to heaven as soon as he died.
Rather, Scripture teaches that the day righteous Jesus died he went to hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Jesus was in biblical hell ' the grave ' until his God resurrected dead Jesus days later.
Jesus taught his return would be a long way off in his illustration found at Luke 19:11-15
Jesus is the nobleman who went away to a ' far country' ( Heaven ) and his return would Not be immediately.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Luke 19:11-15 doesn't say anything about the end not happening at the end of their lifetime, just that it wouldn't happen immediately. In fact the parable seems to imply the opposite. If Jesus is the Nobleman then the servants who did the business on his behalf when they left would be the same servants that he would meet on his return.............

Well then you might want to take into account Jesus' illustration about the dragnet found at Matthew 13:47-49.
The symbolic minas illustration found at Luke 19:13; Luke 19:16-23 shows it takes time to do the business as mentioned.
There is No Scripture saying God's kingdom ' came ' rather Scripture teaches to pray for God's kingdom ( Daniel 2:44) to come.
We are now at the time of the political statue's toes, or should I say more like we are at the time of the toenails !

 

[Samael_Khan]

in brief, the great tribulation of Matthew 24 is in connection to Revelation 7:14,9.
The minor fullfillment came in the year 70 on unfaithful Jerusalem.
Christendom ( so-called Christian ) is the fake ' weed/tares ' Christians who grow together with the genuine ' wheat ' Christians until the Harvest Time.
The Harvest Time or the soon coming Separating Time as per Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
The MAJOR fulfillment is also in connection to 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
The powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security..." but that is just the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.

I still do not get your view from reading Matthew. Jesus didn't say that there will be a minor and major fulfillment so I wouldn't assume such a thing. He didn't even imply it.

You would also have to show textual analysis to confirm the connections.

Matthew 24 and Revelation 7 have word connections with the use of Great Tribulation, but Revelation's isn't something I would get from reading the gospels, since Revelation was written after the fall of Jerusalem.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Perhaps many think Jesus went to heaven as soon as he died.
Rather, Scripture teaches that the day righteous Jesus died he went to hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Jesus was in biblical hell ' the grave ' until his God resurrected dead Jesus days later.
Jesus taught his return would be a long way off in his illustration found at Luke 19:11-15
Jesus is the nobleman who went away to a ' far country' ( Heaven ) and his return would Not be immediately.

I do not see how your first two sentences are relevent to the discussion.

I also didn't say that the return would be immediate, but that he has to return to the same servants that he gave the minas too. So they would still have to be alive.

The term "far" is a relative term. It doesn't tell us how long it takes to get somewhere or how long it will take a person to return.

 

[Samael_Khan]

The dragnet illustration fits the Minas illustration because the minas illustration has a wicked servant whose minas gets taken away from him and given to the servant with 10 minas. That is a separation.

Yes, it does take time, which I am not disputing.

Regarding God's Kingdom, I agree that there isn't a scripture that said Jesus came. But context tell us when the writers thought Jesus would come.

I don't see us being at the time of the political statues. That is your assumption so I do not know why you are making a truth statement rather than "I believe".

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I still do not get your view from reading Matthew. Jesus didn't say that there will be a minor and major fulfillment so I wouldn't assume such a thing. He didn't even imply it.
You would also have to show textual analysis to confirm the connections.
Matthew 24 and Revelation 7 have word connections with the use of Great Tribulation, but Revelation's isn't something I would get from reading the gospels, since Revelation was written after the fall of Jerusalem.

Yes, the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 was written by gospel writer John after the great tribulation of the year 70.
The year 70 great tribulation does Not fit the textual analysis of the verse found at Matthew 24:21.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The dragnet illustration fits the Minas illustration because the minas illustration has a wicked servant whose minas gets taken away from him and given to the servant with 10 minas. That is a separation.
Yes, it does take time, which I am not disputing.
Regarding God's Kingdom, I agree that there isn't a scripture that said Jesus came. But context tell us when the writers thought Jesus would come.
I don't see us being at the time of the political statues. That is your assumption so I do not know why you are making a truth statement rather than "I believe".

I believe because the description about the ' last days ' of badness on Earth is just as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.
These last days of the corrupt system also fits the description about the political statue as found in chapter 2 of Daniel.
This coupled with the international declaring about God's kingdom ' good news' is just as Jesus said it would be done at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Even modern technology has made possible rapid Bible translation so that people in remote areas can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages.
Because of what Jesus' followers thought is why Jesus explained to them he would have to first go away before later returning.
So, it is not what the followers originally thought but that Jesus set them ( and us ) straight.
This is why Jesus asks us to pray for God's kingdom to come....
This is why we are ALL invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the promised ' healing ' on Earth for earth's nations as described at Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 33:24 and Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Yes, the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 was written by gospel writer John after the great tribulation of the year 70.
The year 70 great tribulation does Not fit the textual analysis of the verse found at Matthew 24:21.

You should separate context from what verses weren't fulfilled. He doesn't say there would be a dual fulfillment, that fulfillment is an assumption. Through textual analysis we can actually determine the time period Jesus was referring to and that Peter explicitly said that the Last Days happened in his day.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I believe because the description about the ' last days ' of badness on Earth is just as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.
These last days of the corrupt system also fits the description about the political statue as found in chapter 2 of Daniel.
This coupled with the international declaring about God's kingdom ' good news' is just as Jesus said it would be done at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Even modern technology has made possible rapid Bible translation so that people in remote areas can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages.
Because of what Jesus' followers thought is why Jesus explained to them he would have to first go away before later returning.
So, it is not what the followers originally thought but that Jesus set them ( and us ) straight.
This is why Jesus asks us to pray for God's kingdom to come....
This is why we are ALL invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the promised ' healing ' on Earth for earth's nations as described at Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 33:24 and Isaiah 35th chapter.

2 Timothy describes things that have happened throughout the ages. It is nothing special. So we can ignore that.

Daniel 2 can be interpreted in many ways. How does it describe the political situation of these days?

As I said earlier, Paul already said that the Good news was preached throughout the whole earth in his day. So not a future fulfillment.

Bible translation isn't said to be a sign of the end times. Also the first century christian's didn't need bible translation because they were granted to speak in different languages.

Yes they believed Jesus return was still to come at that time.

The promised healing and Rev 22:20 are not relevent to the topic at hand.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.....Yes they believed Jesus return was still to come at that time.
The promised healing and Rev 22:20 are not relevent to the topic at hand.

'getting saved' to me is the topic at hand, and that is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
When Jesus comes, Jesus comes with 'saving' grace for the living people of Earth.
That ' saving ' of the living people of Earth means ' healing saving ' for earth's nations as promised at Revelation 22:2.

 

[Samael_Khan]

'getting saved' to me is the topic at hand, and that is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
When Jesus comes, Jesus comes with 'saving' grace for the living people of Earth.
That ' saving ' of the living people of Earth means ' healing saving ' for earth's nations as promised at Revelation 22:2.

But that is nothing more than a red herring.

We are talking about what the original authors meant with regards to when the end will be or whether they were even right at all, which is necessary to the "getting saved" topic. We are not disputing that the Bible mentions that the nations will be healed, though we might dispute what the authors meant by the term "nations".