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Nationalists surge in Germany

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
The party of German Chancellor Angela Merkel has suffered defeats in two of three states holding regional elections, exit polls suggest.

They indicate the Christian Democrats lost support in Baden-Wuerttemberg and Rhineland Palatinate, but remain the largest party in Saxony-Anhalt.

The anti-migrant AfD achieved gains in all three states, exit polls indicate.

The elections were seen as a test of support for Chancellor Merkel's policy of accommodating refugees.

More than a million migrants and refugees entered Germany in 2015.

Angela Merkel's CDU suffers German state election setbacks - BBC News

If Nazi Germany returns I am totally blaming Angela.

Thoughts? Did Merkel allow too many migrants in, should she have brought in the same amount but slowed down the pace, or allowed none in at all? What are your views on this surge in German support for the anti-migrant AfD party, is it something we should be worried or care about?
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Thoughts? Did Merkel allow too many migrants in, should she have brought in the same amount but slowed down the pace, or allowed none in at all? What are your views on this surge in German support for the anti-migrant AfD party, is it something we should be worried or care about?

Of course we should care about it .. of course a nation does not want an unsustainable immigration policy .. I feel sure that most Muslims who have lived in Germany for 20 years or more would agree.

EU leaders are trying to do their best .. damned if they do, damned if they don't.
I think we all knew that there would be a backlash, but we should keep our heads, and patiently try to sort it out .. sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind .. but there's a limit!
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
The party of German Chancellor Angela Merkel has suffered defeats in two of three states holding regional elections, exit polls suggest.

They indicate the Christian Democrats lost support in Baden-Wuerttemberg and Rhineland Palatinate, but remain the largest party in Saxony-Anhalt.

The anti-migrant AfD achieved gains in all three states, exit polls indicate.

The elections were seen as a test of support for Chancellor Merkel's policy of accommodating refugees.

More than a million migrants and refugees entered Germany in 2015.

Angela Merkel's CDU suffers German state election setbacks - BBC News

If Nazi Germany returns I am totally blaming Angela.

Thoughts? Did Merkel allow too many migrants in, should she have brought in the same amount but slowed down the pace, or allowed none in at all? What are your views on this surge in German support for the anti-migrant AfD party, is it something we should be worried or care about?

I don't think this is Nazi Germany returning.

People in countries all over the word - are now saying no more refugees, - because of the bombings, and terrorists slipping in with the refugees, and the attacks by Muslim men on women, etc.

These are creating a negative atmosphere for immigration.

*
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
If Nazi Germany returns I am totally blaming Angela.

Thoughts? Did Merkel allow too many migrants in, should she have brought in the same amount but slowed down the pace, or allowed none in at all? What are your views on this surge in German support for the anti-migrant AfD party, is it something we should be worried or care about?
As an American I am not worried about it. There are miles between AfD and Nazism!
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
These are such exciting times, I hardly have time to read everything in RF much but only to respond to the most interesting posts regarding the world political landscape!

Yes, we are seeing a rise of Nationalism across those countries impacted by waves of human migrations that were also caused by political failure and failed states. No nation is "perfect", but certainly some are a lot better than others but in the sense of imperfection there are simply too many countries with their own economic crisis, massive debts, and we see now the issues inherent in political systems where the establishment seeks to maintain their power and thus the money that comes from their benefactors as a class now know as the government class, and they literally distrust their own people to the extent that they think they can remain in power by "invading their own country" with hordes of illiterate dupes of fascism or those who can be bought to live on a plantation in return for "free bread" where the so-called "immigrant" is paid a salary simply to vote for the establishment in power. Merkel is part of the problem and the same establishment.

What is happening is only obvious. Is this the rise again of National Socialism?

No, it is not. It is the rise of Nationalism. If one wants to force socialism onto and into the ethos of it, yes it *may* become National(ist) Socialism - but in this case, it is very unlikely. However, in regards to the aspect of violent or reactionary or "hit back" attitude, if the establishment or for that matter the communists carry on too much with attempts to disrupt the voice of this Nationalism, either by government "regulations" such as suppression of speech, or by the brattish bullishness of some from the left, I think you could very well see "freebooters" in the street very soon cracking the heads of the left once it crosses a certain line. I do not think it will be National Socialism. But yes, it will be cracking heads.

Also, I am telling you right now. This is international. Meaning this Nationalism is International Nationalism. That sounds like a oxymoron. Maybe it is. But it is real. Those of the "Orange Nation" (Red State, Blue State, but now Orange State i.e. Trump and Nationalist Populism) are very much in communications with others in Europe, Russia, India, on and on. The borders of the nation indeed is a focus, oddly the Nation also now has new borders, broader borders, huge territories, that span the digital world. This Nationalism is a Digital Nation, too.

And I am part of it.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
If Nazi Germany returns I am totally blaming Angela.

On which grounds, I wonder? Isn't she doing the exact opposite of the Nazis?

Thoughts? Did Merkel allow too many migrants in, should she have brought in the same amount but slowed down the pace, or allowed none in at all? What are your views on this surge in German support for the anti-migrant AfD party, is it something we should be worried or care about?

Of course we should be worried. Nationalism is the scourge of civilization.

I can hardly fault Angela Merkel, though.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Nationalists surge in Germany
The anti-migrant AfD

Its always good to read something amusing in the morning.

On to the article which is probably going to be even more hilarious.


So is this a blow to Mrs Merkel's leadership? Not necessarily. It was also a historic victory for the Greens, who support the chancellor's position on refugees.

Except of course that the Greens in Baden-Württemberg shouldn't be confused with the Federal Greens or those in other states.
Minister-President Kretschmann won them this election and he is on the farthest conservative wing of the party. If he'd live in any other state he would not survive in the Greens as he's somewhat Christian, indulges in native traditions and all that conservative shabang. Which is all a big no-no in the Greens elsewhere.
He even spoke out against Merkel during the elections and took the side of the CSU.

So really, it has absolutely nothing to do with Merkel, refugees or Kretschmanns support for either of them.


German Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel said on Saturday that gains for the AfD would not change his government's stance on immigration.

He said: "There is a clear position that we stand by: humanity and solidarity. We will not change our position now.

It's okay, perhaps he will understand the message when he and his party is in single digits after the other two state elections this year.
 
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Buttercup

Veteran Member
Thoughts? Did Merkel allow too many migrants in, should she have brought in the same amount but slowed down the pace, or allowed none in at all? What are your views on this surge in German support for the anti-migrant AfD party, is it something we should be worried or care about?
I understand Germans not being overly happy about a million refugees and migrants allowed entry in one year's time - that's a lot of people. Germany is roughly the size our US state of Montana with a population of 80+ million. I'm sure the current citizens are feeling the squeeze on housing and social resources. Merkel should have spaced those numbers out, seems a bit ambitious.
 

Jake1001

Computer Simulator
If Trump gets elected, the entire world has a lot to worry about. Not only is he a nationalist, but he has been talking about tariffs. Of course, this would be the surest way to put us into the next world recession, or depression, which further fuels nationalism. Let's hope the US voters realize this soon.

Anyone who doubts this, review WWII-era German history.
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I understand Germans not being overly happy about a million refugees and migrants allowed entry in one year's time - that's a lot of people. Germany is roughly the size our US state of Montana with a population of 80+ million. I'm sure the current citizens are feeling the squeeze on housing and social resources. Merkel should have spaced those numbers out, seems a bit ambitious.

It's actually all fairly simple.
Before the immigration wave(that's all what it is, immigration, illegal at that) there was no money for anything. Be it infrastructure(not as bad as Belgium but getting there), no construction of social housing for I think over 12 years, no support for more Kindergartens, overall social services and so forth.
The motto was "Den Gürtel enger schnallen" which means "to tighten the belt".

But then it all slowly started during the summer, suddenly there was money for all kinds of stuff. Housings for vagrants who've found shelter were being demolished for brand new homes. But only for "refugees".
Kindergartens got the promise of more funding, even to build new ones.
I personally think the turning point was when the government proclaimed how they had saved so and so much money in 2015.
Some perhaps thought "well perhaps we will get some taxes cut a bit", nope.
Everything that was saved will be put to use with the refugees. Every single Euro.
And then it hit people, this money would've vanished forever. Nothing would've been spend. If not the "refugees" had turned up.

"The Government spends money for the refugees but not for us."
The Parties in the Government deny this of course, but its too obvious.


Ever tried to break the law in Germany? The state will prosecute you or wring you out for all kinds of stuff. But suddenly people coming from far away places could do all kinds of stuff without being prosecuted.
This you obviously won't read in the country wide newspapers, for that you have to read the local ones.
Suddenly there are an awful lot of cases of rape, molestation, theft, robberies and so forth. These local newspapers sometimes show the police sketch of how the perpetrator looked like. Yeah they don't look very German.
People being sexually assaulted at the local swimming pool by refugees being accompanied by their social worker? Well the "refugees" in the city are banned from it. This gets out into the state press and from there the federal press. Some time later the ban is lifted due to obvious state or federal intervention. Then the natives stay away from places where this happened, which gets them branded as racists.
During carnival a Belgian journalist was apparently groped by drunk German men live on TV in Cologne. Sexual molestation all right and the press loved it.
The very next night in Cologne a women on her way home was first harassed by a refugee, then knocked unconscious and finally raped.
It was a mere side note in the newspapers, obviously not a single TV station reported on it.

Then the next thing came out, the whole Lügenpresse(lying media, a word the Nazis coined back in the days) slogans of Pegida were actually true. The media chose not to report any crimes by refugees for at least 2015. They claimed they did it because they didn't want to upset the natives. Yeah right.


And during all of this Merkel said one thing "Wir schaffen das", we'll manage.
Some people asked what we are going to manage, well "it".
What's the plan? Who knows, Merkel still hasn't gone into any detail.

But there is at least a Plan B right? Nope. That she made perfectly clear. Either we go with Plan A or... we fail, at whatever.



The AfD meanwhile is demonised beyond any common sense. Every day there are multiple stories on them in one credible news outlet. And its always how they are bad, Nazis, got no answers, death awaits and more fun stuff.
The people are sick and tired of it.
When there is a debate on TV and someone from the AfD is invited everyone knows its going to be an X vs 1. Sometimes an X vs 1.5 if some other guy is halfway on their side.
AfD members are supposed to explain everything of what they want to achieve and how on the spot. No other party is supposed to do so.

And then there is of course their oh so racist anti-immigration program. You want to know what's so bad? No they don't want to outdo Australia. They want to go the Canadian way. Yes they want to copy the racist Canadian immigration laws. Oh the horror.


Are most of their members political amateurs? Sure.
Will they turn Germany into a paradise when elected? No of course not.
But the same is true for the other parties.


The next elections are going to be Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Berlin. I doubt the AfD will have much success in Berlin, the city is far too cosmopolitan aka filled with foreigners, hippies and polls currently at 7%.
But M-V is going to be different. Its the ugly duckling of German states with its low population density and Nazi problem which shows itself in the NPD being in parliament. There the AfD polls at 16%, 6 months before election. That's a whole lot of time to get more votes. And the warmer the temperatures are the more problems with "refugees" will arrive.


So uhm yeah I wrote too much.
 
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