Nativity Scene Depicts Jesus, Mary, And Joseph In Cages

[BSM1]

From the article:

“We don’t see it as political; we see it as theological. I’m getting responses from people I don’t know … I am having people tell me that it moved them to tears,” she said. “So if the Holy Family and the imagery of the Holy Family and the imagery of a Nativity is something you hold dear, and you see them separated, then that’s going to spark compassion in many people.”
​

That's what theology does. It provokes a response that is god-like. It provokes sympathy for our fellow man suffering from the policies of political powers. It calls forth our humanity in its higher forms. It speaks of the love of God in the face of suffering from the world. You think Martin Luther King's message was about "politics"? At its heart, civil rights is a theological issue. Human rights and dignity, are what theology should and does embrace.

Civil rights are probably the height of political responsibility. This is why Dr. King marched on governmental institutions and foundations.

 

[Windwalker]

Civil rights are probably the height of political responsibility. This is why Dr. King marched on governmental institutions and foundations.

While quoting scripture. In other words, it had a theological foundation of distributive justice. "Take away from me the noise of your songs; to the melody of your harps I will not listen. But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream." ~Amos 5:23-24, cried Dr. King.

The same thing applies here as well. This is a theological question. How should we treat our fellow man, stranger or otherwise? It is a question between us and our own souls.

 

[BSM1]

While quoting scripture. In other words, it had a theological foundation of distributive justice. "Take away from me the noise of your songs; to the melody of your harps I will not listen. But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream." ~Amos 5:23-24, cried Dr. King.

The same thing applies here as well. This is a theological question. How should we treat our fellow man, stranger or otherwise? It is a question between us and our own souls.

Suppose you aren't predisposed to Bible reading and/or believing, then what? This is why I made the statement that "Civil Right" is the highest achievement of any governing entity.

 

[PruePhillip]

.

"A Methodist church in Claremont unveiled a Nativity scene Saturday night depicting Jesus, Mary and Joseph as refugees in cages, likening one of the most well-known images of the Christmas season to photos that have become synonymous with criticism of the Trump administration’s border separation policies.

The display, which has stoked debate on the Facebook page of the church's lead pastor shows classic Nativity figurines of Joseph and Mary in cages on either side of a cage containing the manger of Jesus.

“We see this as, in some ways, the Holy Family standing in for the nameless families,” said the Rev. Karen Clark Ristine, the lead pastor at Claremont United Methodist Church. “We’ve heard of their plight; we’ve seen how these asylum seekers have been greeted and treated. We wanted the Holy Family to stand in for those nameless people because they also were refugees.”

While the Nativity scene shows Jesus shortly after birth and is the foundation of the Christmas holiday, the Claremont depiction appears to be invoking Joseph and Mary’s flight to Egypt. Under most interpretations, the infant Jesus and his parents had to escape Jerusalem for fear King Herod would have the baby slaughtered, perceiving the child as a threat to his reign."
source​

Thoughts?

It speaks of the churches in the last days in Revelation.

"No more the voice of the bride and bridegroom.. no more the lighted
candle.... but a cage of every hateful and unclean bird."

The real cage is what politicized churches put themselves into. Religion
is declining and is not seen as being relevant - so the churches seek
relevance through causes and hot button issues. In effect the modern church
doesn't lead - it is led, and by hateful, secular people who despise the very
idea of God.

Thought experiment.

Imagine the US Govt deciding on "open borders"
Millions upon millions of people now pour into the USA.
Cities double in size overnight.

Now these activists change their minds (as they often do) and decide that
The Big Issue is, "Ecological Footprint", and that America is "full" and there's
not enough water, soil, energy, infrastructure to go around - they will accuse
the govt of "profiteering" and "exploiting" immigration.

Then these liberation theology churches will also change tack and seek to stop
open border policies from "exploiting" America.

It's very cynical.

 

[Father Heathen]

I believe that this violates the spirit of separating church from state. If you're going to make political statements on church property, then you should be taxed as any other business entity.

Only because you disagree with it. Churches preach against homosexuality and abortion all the time, but do you voice your objection then? It's also pathetic how human rights and humanitarian issues apparently became exclusively liberal concerns.

 

[Vouthon]

As someone wisely said on Twitter:


Michael Bayer on Twitter

The Holy Family weren't refugees when Jesus was born. They became refugees when a capricious, insecure tyrant used the power of the state to unleash violence and terror on poor families, so they fled to a foreign land. Which is... kinda relevant in today's world.

​

I agree.

Jesus came into this world in a family that, soon after his birth, had to escape from their native land to seek asylum Egypt.

The fact is that in fleeing Judea for Egypt - with nursing mother and child in toe - to escape the despotism and paranoia of King Herod in Judea, as he set about murdering baby boys, the Holy Family did become prototypes for families the world over and throughout history, who are forced by war, famine, discrimination or desperation to uproot themselves and seek shelter in an alien land for their personal safety.

There is undeniable social commentary at the heart of the Christmas story and of Christianity more generally. This is is evident to everyone who studies the texts in detail.

When the pregnant Mary contemplates the significance of her role as the future Mother of the Redeemer of the Human Race, in Luke's literary narrative, with the potent words, "God my Saviour...has looked with favour on the lowliness of his maidservant...He has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts. He has brought down the powerful from their thrones, and lifted up the lowly; he has filled the hungry with good things, and sent the rich away empty." (Luke 1:47-53), this should be a red-alert to readers that conventional societal norms are being called into question and that the Christ-child represents the birth of a hope that, while transcending this earthly world, radically inverts its values and oppressive structures.

The Holy Family, denied any welcome and giving birth to Jesus in a stable, until finally given sanctuary not in their own country but in a foreign land by people of another race. The word to focus on is pheuge, “flee,” from which comes the word “refugee,” the one who flees. Thus even Matthew’s angel labels the Holy Family as refugees.

As Daniel J. Harrington, S.J., a New Testament scholar, reminds us in his commentary on Matthew in the Sacra Pagina series:

Egypt, which came under Roman control in 30 B.C., was outside the jurisdiction of Herod. Egypt had been the traditional place of refuge for Jews both in biblical times (see 1 Kgs 11:40; Jer 26:21) and in the Maccabean era when the high priest Onias IV fled there.​

Let's remember that this Christmas.

So, I'm all for this church demonstrating the modern relevance of this story.

(I've always thought Trump was a caricature Herod anyway)

 

[Father Heathen]

Those screeching and squealing about this demonstrate that Christianity has very little to do with Christ nowàdays.

 

[Thief]

.

"A Methodist church in Claremont unveiled a Nativity scene Saturday night depicting Jesus, Mary and Joseph as refugees in cages, likening one of the most well-known images of the Christmas season to photos that have become synonymous with criticism of the Trump administration’s border separation policies.

The display, which has stoked debate on the Facebook page of the church's lead pastor shows classic Nativity figurines of Joseph and Mary in cages on either side of a cage containing the manger of Jesus.

“We see this as, in some ways, the Holy Family standing in for the nameless families,” said the Rev. Karen Clark Ristine, the lead pastor at Claremont United Methodist Church. “We’ve heard of their plight; we’ve seen how these asylum seekers have been greeted and treated. We wanted the Holy Family to stand in for those nameless people because they also were refugees.”

While the Nativity scene shows Jesus shortly after birth and is the foundation of the Christmas holiday, the Claremont depiction appears to be invoking Joseph and Mary’s flight to Egypt. Under most interpretations, the infant Jesus and his parents had to escape Jerusalem for fear King Herod would have the baby slaughtered, perceiving the child as a threat to his reign."
source​

Thoughts?

a bit over the top

refugees are holy?

 

[Windwalker]

Suppose you aren't predisposed to Bible reading and/or believing, then what? This is why I made the statement that "Civil Right" is the highest achievement of any governing entity.

The Bible is secondary. What is primary is the human impulse towards justice. The Bible is just a mythological picture of what, at its best, is the highest expression of that. Of course this will show up in government, because it is "we the people", who try to embody that expression. Theology is an expression of that "truth, beauty, and goodness", which conveys that. Theology tries to go beyond the norm of society, which is the eye for an eye, "build that wall", and all other such anger-filled expressions of fear and powerlessness. None of that embodies love and compassion, which last I checked was what the Christian message was all about.

 

[Subduction Zone]

To set the record straight, Joseph was a carpenter, which was a good paying profession, even at that time. Mary and Joseph were not poor. The reason they had to travel was because of the census, which was the basis for estimating tax collecting. All the citizens had to register at their places of birth. This story was due to big government and big taxes.

Joseph and Mary, were middle class ,and had the money to stay at an Inn. However, because Mary had been in late pregnancy and their travel was slow, they reached Bethlehem late, and all the hotel and motel rooms were taken. The only accommodations were inside the animal stalls, which they happily took. Shortly thereafter Mary gives birth.

Actually the "census story" tells us that the nativity story is a myth. Your claims are false. Don't blame it on "big government" blame it on story tellers that could not quite get their facts straight.

 

[crossfire]

Matt 25:44-45

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’​

 

[Vouthon]

Only because you disagree with it. Churches preach against homosexuality and abortion all the time, but do you voice your objection then? It's also pathetic how human rights and humanitarian issues apparently became exclusively liberal concerns.

I'd also note that for Christians, it's striking that the gospels never once refer to abortion or homosexuality.

Even though teachings on abortion and homosexuality were mentioned post-Jesus in the Christian tradition, and so became part of the doctrine of the church, no one has ever attributed anything about them to Jesus himself (which is significant because there are extra-biblical sayings, known as agrapha, of Jesus in the writings of the early church fathers. Nothing about abortion or homosexuality there either).

But Jesus did have a fair amount to say about social injustice - the great reversal of fortune between the powerful and the downtrodden, the rich and poor, the privileged and the marginalised.

That was his bread and butter. You can find more about such issues in the gospels than any other topic, according to scholars.

I've often wondered how one can read the synoptic gospels and blithely ignore their main themes, but the majority of Evangelicals in America apparently do, judging by their voting record for Trump.

The gospels are supposed to be a Christian's pre-eminent moral compass (more important than the rest of the Bible, because they record the life and teachings of Jesus).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

refugees are holy?

Of course. They're people.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've often wondered how one can read the synoptic gospels and blithely ignore their main themes, but the majority of Evangelicals in America apparently do, judging by their voting record for Trump.

I've heard Evangelicals tell me in all sincerity that "the Eye of the Needle" was a city gate in Jerusalem where a laden camel could pass through fine; it would just have to slow down and shimmy a bit to get through.

 

[`mud]

And not one word written by Jesus !
From the quill and chisel of Saul,
years and years later,
but from the sand writing,
not one word !

Ahhhh...imagination !

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

I talked to one of my co-workers a couple weeks back and she told me that her friend's husband works in border security. According to him, the mainstream media during their time "reporting" at the detention centers have been spinning the situation so far out of context that it essentially has zero resemblance to manifest reality and the humanitarian efforts are completely unrecognized. It's as if all of these security enforcement officers have no family of their own and are completely bent on making the lives of these people miserable just to appease fuhrer Trump. People need to recognize that the truth doesn't sell in journalism; sensationalism does. They're not telling you the truth, they're selling you a story.

 

[BSM1]

Only because you disagree with it. Churches preach against homosexuality and abortion all the time, but do you voice your objection then? It's also pathetic how human rights and humanitarian issues apparently became exclusively liberal concerns.

Not really sure of your point..

 

[BSM1]

The Bible is secondary. What is primary is the human impulse towards justice. The Bible is just a mythological picture of what, at its best, is the highest expression of that. Of course this will show up in government, because it is "we the people", who try to embody that expression. Theology is an expression of that "truth, beauty, and goodness", which conveys that. Theology tries to go beyond the norm of society, which is the eye for an eye, "build that wall", and all other such anger-filled expressions of fear and powerlessness. None of that embodies love and compassion, which last I checked was what the Christian message was all about.

Being loving and compassionate does not mean that you have to become a door mat...

 

[Windwalker]

Being loving and compassionate does not mean that you have to become a door mat...

Of course not. No one claims otherwise. But bad mouthing others as criminals, rapists, terrorists, losers, chanting "Build that wall! Build that wall!" as an anti-immigrant statement, etc., which is status quo these days amongst right-wingers, is explicitly not Christian in any sense of the word.

It's one thing to be a dick to your fellow human, it's another to be that callused and call yourself a Christian, to claim you are following the way of Jesus and being the opposite of that. That's being a "Fake Christian", or as Jesus would have put it, a hypocrite and a liar.

Though I don't like quoting passages of scripture like this normally, I think this summarizes this situation exactly to a T.

The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
​

Putting the Holy Family in separate cages, symbolizes how what we do to others who are legitimately seeking asylum, turning to us for help, cuts straight to the heart of our lack of compassion for our fellow humans. Jesus never asks us to be a doormat, but he does ask us to love.

 

[Thief]

Of course. They're people.

hmmmm…….holy by default of being human

might start a debate about that