Nature and Jesus - how do they mesh?

[nnmartin]

How does nature fit into the overall Christian theology?

My view is that Nature is an agent of God's work, and so should be revered.

Every natural act is due to God, sometimes the positive side and sometimes the dark side.

However, we should aim towards the positive side as this is the intention of nature as can be witnessed through the lenses of biology and psychology.

Animals, plants and the planet are not there to be 'used' by man in a selfish way, but should be cherished as part of the grand plan.

Sometimes animals and humans give birth at a young age - this is because they have a high concentration of Essence - ie: life energy that is inserted into their DNA.

Life = Essence of God.

What does the believer or atheist have to say about this?

 

[nnmartin]

If God created the forest and lakes, then why don't we have rural churches in areas of natural beauty to celebrate the divine power of nature?

Why not have animals inside the church during the service to bond in spiritual union with us - this is surely the intention of Nature.

why else would we descend from animals if they were not supposed to be part of us?

 

[Sir Doom]

All you need is two more people and you can go and register your own religion. Then you can do whatever you like. Actually, that's only for a "legal" religion. You can go and have church all by yourself in the woods if that's your method. Who is stopping you?

 

[outhouse]

so homo sapiens have been on this planet for some 200,000 years.

but now your asking why your personal choice for a deity hasnt magically placed a church in nature in the last 2000 years???

as it stands right now, we dont know that jesus wasnt nothing more then a Galilean teacher with mythology attached after his death due to his fighting the roman corruption in the temple for poor hardworking jews


let alone conform a single magic trick





as it stands, nature has NO evidence of a deity of any kind helping it in any way shape or form

 

[Sir Doom]

as it stands, nature has NO evidence of a deity of any kind helping it in any way shape or form

Close, but what you should have said is, "...no credible evidence..."

The nature of god or any deity for that matter being a complete unknown its pretty difficult to determine what is or is not evidence of such a thing. Unfortunately for your statement, each individual person gets to judge for themselves what is or is not a deity and what is or is not evidence of that deity. So, as easily as you say, "There is no evidence." , someone who believes can say, "There is nothing but evidence." And you'd both be equally correct. That is to say you would both be guessing.

If you say, "There is no credible evidence." Now you are speaking the truth, because the credibility is in your hands. If you decide it is incredible. So it is. Of course, this doesn't prevent the other person from saying the opposite. But at least you'd both be right instead of both being wrong.

Semantics can be fun

 

[outhouse]

my point, is that there is no evidence, that covers credible lol

and no evidence of any deity


fact is people all have a different definition and belief/faith in what they call a deity and it doesnt matter which one.

they still have zero evidence of anything regarding natural history and a tie to any deity with his hand in the cookie jar.




what we do have is a clear track record that man has been creating deities for as long as homo sapiens have evolved on this planet. not one single deity that has aspects in common, No! many different types with all types of definitions, all of which conform to mythology to a T

 

[Sir Doom]

my point, is that there is no evidence, that covers credible lol

and no evidence of any deity

fact is people all have a different definition and belief/faith in what they call a deity and it doesnt matter which one.

they still have zero evidence of anything regarding natiral history and a tie to any deity.




what we do have is a clear track record that man has been creating deities for as long as homo sapiens have evolved on this planet. not one single deity that has aspects in common, No! many different types with all types of definitions, all of which conform to mythology to a T

I know what you were saying. The problem is that when you state matters of opinion as if they are matters of fact, you have done yourself a disservice. You can't say there is NO evidence. You can only say that you aren't convinced by the evidence presented. A theist can point at the sky and say, "There is evidence of god right there." And you can say, "No that's just the sky that isn't evidence of god." And they can say, "Yes it is." and you can say, "No it isn't." And the debate will continue that way forever. But, if you say, "You'll have to show me more than just a sky to convince me." You have told an absolute and undeniable truth about yourself. No debate possible.

Do as you will, though.

 

[nnmartin]

All you need is two more people and you can go and register your own religion. Then you can do whatever you like. Actually, that's only for a "legal" religion. You can go and have church all by yourself in the woods if that's your method. Who is stopping you?

no one stopping me at all.

but I take offence at the preaching of priests who do not adhere to Nature's holy code.

It is apostasy - the god of Nature did not make him to spout lies.

In the past , many people were murdered for not following the Bible - yes, that's right - murdered! by the so called holy men of the cloth.

Holy men of the cloth defiling the very magic bestowed upon them, by Simon, the great Creator.

 

[Sir Doom]

no one stopping me at all.

but I take offence at the preaching of priests who do not adhere to Nature's holy code.

It is apostasy - the god of Nature did not make him to spout lies.

In the past , many people were murdered for not following the Bible - yes, that's right - murdered! by the so called holy men of the cloth.

Holy men of the cloth defiling the very magic bestowed upon them, by Simon, the great Creator.

Interesting.

Let's try a hypothetical. You have been granted the gift of public speaking. When you speak, people listen and they do what you say. Your ideas are not questioned.

Now, you believe priests not adhering to nature's holy code are apostates.

Please, if you will, describe the punishment these apostates should receive.

The world will carry out your orders without question. Go, go.

 

[nnmartin]

so homo sapiens have been on this planet for some 200,000 years.
but now your asking why your personal choice for a deity hasnt magically placed a church in nature in the last 2000 years???

no,no - Nature is the church here.

I am asking why there are not many churches in places of natural beauty to celebrate the divine gift in all its raw majesty.

as it stands, nature has NO evidence of a deity of any kind helping it in any way shape or form

of course it does - nature itself is the evidence.

God created nature and life - we have all the evidence we need before our very eyes!

 

[nnmartin]

Interesting.

Let's try a hypothetical. You have been granted the gift of public speaking. When you speak, people listen and they do what you say. Your ideas are not questioned.

Now, you believe priests not adhering to nature's holy code are apostates.

Please, if you will, describe the punishment these apostates should receive.

The world will carry out your orders without question. Go, go.

the 'punishment' will take the form of religious re-education.

They will be send to the forest naked , to live amonst the wild animals, humans and plants, as nature intended.

some assistance will be given to them in order to survive, but this will only be basic.

after 1 year of living like this they will have embraced the Essence of life and may be allowed back into the mainstream in order to teach again, in the corrected fashion.

 

[Sir Doom]

the 'punishment' will take the form of religious re-education.

They will be send to the forest naked , to live amonst the wild animals, humans and plants, as nature intended.

some assistance will be given to them in order to survive, but this will only be basic.

after 1 year of living like this they will have embraced the Essence of life and may be allowed back into the mainstream in order to teach again, in the corrected fashion.

It's people like you that ruin religion for the sane. Thanks.

 

[nnmartin]

ok, so what is so sane about burning witches at the stake?

how about stoning adulterers to death or forcing a woman to marry her rapist because it is God's holy work?

how sane is not permitting sex before marriage?

Nature is evidence of God's design and majesty - it should be embraced as it is the only solid physical evidence we will ever have whilst alive.

have you never experience the joy of swimming naked in the sea, or walking around a forest at dawn - this is Earth Magic in action - Simon's Magic!

 

[Sir Doom]

ok, so what is so sane about burning witches at the stake?

how about stoning adulterers to death or forcing a woman to marry her rapist because it is God's holy work?

how sane is not permitting sex before marriage?

There is nothing sane about any of those things. There is also nothing sane about kidnapping and torturing priests for not "respecting nature" as you see fit.

You're just a fascist as they are. NO THANK YOU.

 

[nnmartin]

I can't see where the torture element comes in.

As I said, the basic needs of the priest would be met - ie:food and shelter plus companionship.

 

[Sir Doom]

I can't see where the torture element comes in.

As I said, the basic needs of the priest would be met - ie:food and shelter plus companionship.

Kidnapping, disrobing, re-education. These will all be peaceful endeavors, eh?

 

[nnmartin]

Fairly peaceful yes, certainly more peaceful than the methods of the Christian Church in recent times.

being made to live in nature is using the term 're-education' in a fairly loose way of course and it is really more of a blessing in disguise.

but how can we expect someone to lead the masses with words that go against Simon's Way, and not be held accountable?

How can someone (priest) lead a congregation by an organisation that was responsible for the murder of thousands in the past, merely for carrying out Simon's Order (ie:having children, relationships etc..)

 

[Sir Doom]

See, what you don't understand is that simply rounding up every priest in the world is a horrible horrible crime against humanity. Even if you don't do ANYTHING to them after that. Simply rounding them up is WAY over the line. Do you know you get 15 to life for kidnapping? That's if you don't do ANYTHING else. Just take them from where they were against their will. Don't you believe that's a crime? Don't you think that should be illegal? Don't you think you are going way too far with your little religion rivalry? I think so.

 

[nnmartin]

Not at all, it will be doing God's work so will be for the benefit of mankind.

 

[Sir Doom]

Not at all, it will be doing God's work so will be for the benefit of mankind.

That is the exact reasoning the inquisition used. Good job.