Joe Shirley Jr., president of the more than 180,000 person Navajo Nation, recently "vetoed a measure
that would have banned same-sex marriage on the Indian reservation." Supporters of the anti-gay marriage measure, which passed the Tribal Council on a unanimous vote, tried to present the bill as an effort "to promote Navajo family values and preserve the sanctity of marriage," as it not only banned gay marriage but also polygamy and "marriages between close relatives." However, Shirley, who also "strongly supports family stability," vetoed the legislation for several reasons. Rampant problems such as domestic violence, sexual assault, and gangs on the Navajo Nation are of pressing concern; according to Shirley, "same-sex marriage is a non-issue on Navajoland. So why waste time and resources on it? We have more important issues to address." Furthermore, Shirley stated that the measure "goes against the Navajo teaching of nondiscrimination and doing no psychological or physical harm to others."
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Navajo President Vetoes Gay Marriage Ban
- Thread starter seagull
- Start date
The Voice of Reason
Doctor of Thinkology
Apparently, the Navajo nation needs to elect a leader of vision, someone that Karl Rove can get behind.
Would that our nation had leaders like Joe Shirley, Jr.
TVOR
Would that our nation had leaders like Joe Shirley, Jr.
TVOR
I noticed that the reasons given for the ban were the same old discredited bunk that is always given: family values and the sanctity of marriage. This, despite the fact that gay marriages would do nothing to destroy family values and the sanctity of marriage. Good thing Joe Shirley vetoed the ban.
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Can Joe Shirley run for American president? He has my vote right now.
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
seagull said:
What? :areyoucra
Are you being serious or sarcastic?
As near as I can figure it out from listening to conservative radio talk show hosts, "family values" is vaugely defined as societal values that are friendly to families, as opposed to societal values that are not friendly to families. The trouble is that the talk show hosts I listen to are far, far more likely to say what are not family values, than they are to divulge what are family values. So, for instance, they (the talk show hosts) are adamant that liberal values in general are not family values, that gay marriage does not represent family values, that MTV does not normally promote family values, etc..., but they (the talk show hosts) are much less likely to say exactly what are family values.Cr0wley said:
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
seagull said:
Ok, I thought so. We've had people make statements like that before and be completely serious about it. Just thought I would get you to clarify. (I'm a little slow today, being Monday and all).
I myself have always suspected as much. Sure, the gays I know do a good job of hiding the fact that all they care about every second of the day is gay sex. Some even go so far as to pretend that they care about things like their carreer, intellectual interests, and their friends and family. But scratch the surface of those alledged concerns, and you'll find a gay man or woman is naturally hotter than a fox in a forrest fire. I could go on, but I have to take a break to check out the daily updates on my favorite porn sites.seagull said:
The Voice of Reason
Doctor of Thinkology
Balderdash!! As usual, another cheap shot by some atheistic pig, trying to belittle America! You should be ashamed, Sunstone (I know I am).Sunstone said:
Everyone knows that "Family Values" are whatever Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh decide they are at that particular moment in time.
Oh - and I almost forgot - "Family Values" are subject to sanctification by either Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, or Pat Dobson. Until they have been so anointed by one of God's Three Favorite Sons, they are only "conditional Family Values".
Just trying to help...
TVOR
I'm ashamed of myself, TVOR, for my thinly disguised attempt to mislead Mr. Cr0wley as to what "family values" mean in this great nation of ours. Of course, you're right that family values rest on the rock solid foundation of whatever the hell those fine people, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and James Dobson, say are family values. My apologies for not having pointed that out.The Voice of Reason said:Balderdash!! As usual, another cheap shot by some atheistic pig, trying to belittle America! You should be ashamed, Sunstone (I know I am).
Everyone knows that "Family Values" are whatever Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh decide they are at that particular moment in time.
Oh - and I almost forgot - "Family Values" are subject to sanctification by either Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, or Pat Dobson. Until they have been so anointed by one of God's Three Favorite Sons, they are only "conditional Family Values".
Just trying to help...
TVOR
Perhaps there is an irony here: The Navajo were on the brink of adopting a ban on gay marriages because, in part, gay marriages were seen as opposed to family values -- as defined by James Dobson et al....but neither James Dobson, nor Jerry Falwell, nor Pat Robertson have reputations for being sympathetic to Native Americans, nor Native American issues. In fact, given their vision of America, the best thing that happened to this continent in their view was the replacement of the Native American by god fearing Europeans. So, why would Native Americans pay any attention at all to the rationales of Dobson, Falwell and Robertson to oppose gay marriages?
Joe Shipley is right to point out that the values espoused by Dobson, Falwell and Robertson go against traditional Navajo values.
Pah
Uber all member
seagull said:
I am truley amazed. Joan Roughgarden talks about the Navajo tradition of the two spirited where "the survival of humanity was believed to depend upon the inventiveness of two-spirited dieties. Having two-spirited deities at the foundation of of religion endowed two spirited people with dignity and significance"
http://www.dailyemerald.com/archive/v98/1/961014/identity.html
Then, given, that traditional Navajo culture seems to embrace homosexuality without demonizing it, it does indeed (as you point out, Pah) seem all the more strange that the vote was unanimous to ban gay marriages. I wonder to what extent the council members were influenced by the religious right? Their reasons for wanting to ban gay marriages -- the blather about "sanctity of marriage" and "family values" -- seem to be lifted straight from Dobson, Falwell, Robertson and other like minded fools. Have the council members been listening to conservative talk radio?pah said:
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Sunstone said:Then, given, that traditional Navajo culture seems to embrace homosexuality without demonizing it, it does indeed (as you point out, Pah) seem all the more strange that the vote was unanimous to ban gay marriages. I wonder to what extent the council members were influenced by the religious right? Their reasons for wanting to ban gay marriages -- the blather about "sanctity of marriage" and "family values" -- seem to be lifted straight from Dobson, Falwell, Robertson and other like minded fools. Have the council members been listening to conservative talk radio?
Don't forget that many native people were forcibly converted to Christianty, so there is undoubtedly that influence there as well.