New Deities

[Kirran]

For all of the history of Sanatana Dharma, there've been changes in the deities being worshipped. While of course there's been shifting between Shaivas, Vaishnavas, Sauras (who used to be much more common) etc, these kinds of changes have been most evident among 'Folk' Hindu beliefs, which are far more likely to be polytheistic and/or animistic.

Included in such changes in worship are the emergence of new deities. This has happened in ancient times (the deity Pabuji worshipped by some Rajasthanis was once a warrior, who became a mythological figure, and eventually a deity to be worshipped) and more recently as well (that murti of Narendra Modi somebody mentioned, a goddess worshipped in, I think, Kolkata representing opportunity and freedom who looks peculiarly similar to the Statue of Liberty - no I couldn't dig out the source I'm afraid). Some Hindus will have a little picture of Jesus who they do puja to in the temple.

Basically, I'm curious about what people think about this.

I think it's especially relevant today as Hinduism gets established in the West, which is a new environment, where the city deity and village deities have been left in India, where the area isn't so soaked with Hindu mythology, and with folk deities. Might this develop in time?

For example, might new figures become deified in the West as time goes on?

Also, might the deities of some other pagan religions, such as Celtic religions, Asatru and so on, come to be worshipped by some Hindus in Europe, as being the 'local' deities? (Personal interest because I've been getting pretty interested in Neopaganism of late)

This whole area fascinates me.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hindus do create new deities, the two Sai Babas for example. The orthodox hate them. Or they pick up deities from other areas in India. Ayyappa and Santoshi Mata for example. North Indians did not know much about them. Even Balaji (Tirupati). Ganesha worship has increased many folds in North India. As for picking up Thor, Dionysus or Athena, I do not think that will happen. Jesus, yes, as a demi-God. Though forming relations with non-Abrahamic will be interesting, perhaps what is necessary is a living religion.

 

[Kirran]

Can always count on you for a good intellectual reply, Aup!

Hindus do create new deities, the two Sai Babas for example.

Good example!

Deifying the guru is an easy one

As for picking up Thor, Dionysus or Athena, I do not think that will happen.

Fair enough. I'm not necessarily of the opinion that it WILL happen. But of the opinion there's no reason why it couldn't.

Jesus, yes, as a demi-God.

And perhaps one day there'll be Hindus who venerate Jesus as the Supreme. The Christas, or some such

Though forming relations with non-Abrahamic will be interesting, perhaps what is necessary is a living religion.

Do you mean the religions Hinduism mixes with should be living? I'd say that many European pagan religions are now living, to be honest.

 

[ShivaFan]

There are two "things" (aspects?) that are likely to happen in the "West" that is already happening in Far East Asia and the Caribbean, in Hawaii, and probably will happen in America first in California and elsewhere:

(1)

Pilgrimages, tirthas or holy places and fords and "doors", are very important to Hinduism. Some can be peethas, they may have fallen out of the sky such as Goddess body parts, some are discovered such as a swayambhu Lingam of ice or crystal or stone, some hecause a very holy Saint or savant or Hindu died there or cremayed there or samadhi there, actually there are also other reasons a tirtha, a holy place or holy spot, becomes manifest and then pilgrims start to come there, then a temple becomes present, the temple gathers wealth and then the place as well as the temple begins it's own local fame and history which includes miracles or revelation of the Divine Hindu Deity may take place or manifest ...

... and so, let us move into the next stage.

(2)

Let us say a Saint has some history in that area, a life, then his or her devotee is crying for separation, and the Saint appeaes in a vision and tells the devotee to go into a nearby cave where there is found a stone murti of Devi. She is given or Her name revealed. There is some local issue there in that community - perhaps (I am just making up an example, it could be anything) an Islamic terrorist cell kills people there. Then this "local" Devi appears, She does something to completely turn things "on their head" - Devi now is glorified for Her local history.

She is now "Born". Ganesha may come to His Mother.

You see?

She has a name, that might not be on the list of 1008 Devi Names in the "Sahas-(fill in the blank)". ShivaFan goes to Her new temple with his family to see a Lingam in that temple, as well as give respect for SherRani Devi Maa, She Who is now a "Queen" of that "local realm" and Her Son is a "Guardian".

This can happen on Mount Diablo only 50 miles from San Francisco, California. Jai Devi SherRani (who rides a California Mountain Lion).

Devi does this a LOT, every 100 years or so, even more.

... Saint finds a swayambhu Lingam in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. Or perhaps Mission Peak, California. New temple. Lingam has Name.

... so Saivism "spreards". Now devotees come. The Crystal Lingam. In "it", some savant see a shadow moving - it is Muruga. "Find My Vel in this river".

They find it, the devotees!

Then the Vel is in a temple by that river. A local history starts. Time. The Vel is verily a Devi, the Sister of Muraga, but the Local manifestation, but She needs to get married to set the example.

A Lord comes to marry Her.

So it begins.

Now do you understand why Lord Surya known as Del Mar Rey Siddha is become famous? So it is...

An ISKCON saint has been dead for decades. A Saint of San Francisco. A devotee who loves the Saint is at an event honoring the Saint. The Jagannath Cart is being pulled. One rope turns into some tirtha or door where the devotees know the Saint is in that rope pulling. Everyone feels it. Then, wheb they "let go", the rope is still being pulled.

This rope is placed in a special place. That is when it became "cobra like" and takes the Great Savant to where is found the Emanation of Krishna's "flute"...

It has a Name. Now the devotees come tbere. The Temple. In Modesto, California.

Understand? So it will be. Vaishnavism "spreads".

 

[Aupmanyav]

Excellent post, ShivaFan, don't blame us. After all, we are ignorant pagans who have ignored the 'good news' even after we heard it.

Do you mean the religions Hinduism mixes with should be living? I'd say that many European pagan religions are now living, to be honest.

Then possible. After all, the Nordic, Celtic, Germanic, Greek and Slav deities are the products of the same culture of Indo-European Aryans (R1a). A temple with Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha, Mahavira, Nanak and many others in Raipur - "Sarva Dharma Samabhava Temple" (Equal devotion to all religions temple) - though Hanuman is the main deity.

 

[Kirran]

There are two "things" (aspects?) that are likely to happen in the "West" that is already happening in Far East Asia and the Caribbean, in Hawaii, and probably will happen in America first in California and elsewhere:

(1)

Pilgrimages, tirthas or holy places and fords and "doors", are very important to Hinduism. Some can be peethas, they may have fallen out of the sky such as Goddess body parts, some are discovered such as a swayambhu Lingam of ice or crystal or stone, some hecause a very holy Saint or savant or Hindu died there or cremayed there or samadhi there, actually there are also other reasons a tirtha, a holy place or holy spot, becomes manifest and then pilgrims start to come there, then a temple becomes present, the temple gathers wealth and then the place as well as the temple begins it's own local fame and history which includes miracles or revelation of the Divine Hindu Deity may take place or manifest ...

... and so, let us move into the next stage.

(2)

Let us say a Saint has some history in that area, a life, then his or her devotee is crying for separation, and the Saint appeaes in a vision and tells the devotee to go into a nearby cave where there is found a stone murti of Devi. She is given or Her name revealed. There is some local issue there in that community - perhaps (I am just making up an example, it could be anything) an Islamic terrorist cell kills people there. Then this "local" Devi appears, She does something to completely turn things "on their head" - Devi now is glorified for Her local history.

She is now "Born". Ganesha may come to His Mother.

You see?

She has a name, that might not be on the list of 1008 Devi Names in the "Sahas-(fill in the blank)". ShivaFan goes to Her new temple with his family to see a Lingam in that temple, as well as give respect for SherRani Devi Maa, She Who is now a "Queen" of that "local realm" and Her Son is a "Guardian".

This can happen on Mount Diablo only 50 miles from San Francisco, California. Jai Devi SherRani (who rides a California Mountain Lion).

Devi does this a LOT, every 100 years or so, even more.

... Saint finds a swayambhu Lingam in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. Or perhaps Mission Peak, California. New temple. Lingam has Name.

... so Saivism "spreards". Now devotees come. The Crystal Lingam. In "it", some savant see a shadow moving - it is Muruga. "Find My Vel in this river".

They find it, the devotees!

Then the Vel is in a temple by that river. A local history starts. Time. The Vel is verily a Devi, the Sister of Muraga, but the Local manifestation, but She needs to get married to set the example.

A Lord comes to marry Her.

So it begins.

Now do you understand why Lord Surya known as Del Mar Rey Siddha is become famous? So it is...

An ISKCON saint has been dead for decades. A Saint of San Francisco. A devotee who loves the Saint is at an event honoring the Saint. The Jagannath Cart is being pulled. One rope turns into some tirtha or door where the devotees know the Saint is in that rope pulling. Everyone feels it. Then, wheb they "let go", the rope is still being pulled.

This rope is placed in a special place. That is when it became "cobra like" and takes the Great Savant to where is found the Emanation of Krishna's "flute"...

It has a Name. Now the devotees come tbere. The Temple. In Modesto, California.

Understand? So it will be. Vaishnavism "spreads".

What a lovely post, thankyou Shivafanji.

This kind of process is already underway in lots of places. The ashram I have visited a couple of times, and will stay at for some time over summer, up in the hills of Mid Wales was founded after its guru had a vision.

I'm interested in the more animistic areas of Folk Hinduism, and how they might come into being in the West.

Excellent post, ShivaFan, don't blame us. After all, we are ignorant pagans who have ignored the 'good news' even after we heard it.
Then possible. After all, the Nordic, Celtic, Germanic, Greek and Slav deities are the products of the same culture of Indo-European Aryans (R1a). A temple with Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha, Mahavira, Nanak and many others in Raipur - "Sarva Dharma Samabhava Temple" (Equal devotion to all religions temple) - though Hanuman is the main deity.

If Jesus can be adopted, then Nordic and Celtic gods will be easy I might play a part in this. I'll have to see how things go.

What a nice temple.

 

[Valjean]

Everything changes. The original Vedic Gods are replaced with Krsna, Ganesa, Hanuman & al. Now mandirs are starting to display murtis of Buddha, Gandhi and Jesus.

The Gods are tools. As we expand spiritually we will transcend them. Let's not get hung up on which image best helps our individual, spiritual focus.

 

[Aupmanyav]

".. then Nordic and Celtic gods will be easy I might play a part in this. I'll have to see how things go."

The only chance is to make Lord Hanuman interested in a Nordic or Celtic Goddess. He is a fine, strong gentleman, and I do not think he is a monkey. Perhaps Vanara means Vana + Nara, a man from the forest. A good way to forge relations. All other male Hindu Gods are married. He is the darling of wrestlers and body builders. He is a virgin (Brahmachari).

 

[Asha]

The only chancVanara means Vana + Nara, a man from the foreste is to make Lord Hanuman interested in a Nordic or Celtic Goddess.

How will this happen Sri Hanuman ji is only interestd in Sita Ram,

Jai Shree Krishna

Asha

 

[Aupmanyav]

Easy, let us approach Lord Rama, or even better, Mother Sita. As they say in India, 'through proper channel'.

 

[kalyan]

Everything changes. The original Vedic Gods are replaced with Krsna, Ganesa, Hanuman & al. Now mandirs are starting to display murtis of Buddha, Gandhi and Jesus.

The Gods are tools. As we expand spiritually we will transcend them. Let's not get hung up on which image best helps our individual, spiritual focus.

say what ? Krushna and Hanuman are vedic gods and Krushna is the only paramaatma, the supreme Brahman........the fake babas are like shirdi sai baba who used to eat non-veg by slaughtering animals and curse people in urdu and then who finally died of fever and was BURIED in krushna temple and people are worshipping his dead body.........As per BG, people who worship pretas reach preta loka only! well there you go!

Adiyen Chinna Jeeyar Swamy Daasa
Adiyen Ramanuja Daasa

 

[Aupmanyav]

Krushna and Hanuman are vedic gods ..

Reference please.

 

[spiritualhitchhiker]

The only chance is to make Lord Hanuman interested in a Nordic or Celtic Goddess. He is a fine, strong gentleman, and I do not think he is a monkey. Perhaps Vanara means Vana + Nara, a man from the forest. A good way to forge relations. All other male Hindu Gods are married. He is the darling of wrestlers and body builders. He is a virgin (Brahmachari).

Hanuman is married according to some myths.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Don't know about that. Yes, he has remained a bachelor for a long time. Lord Rama and Mother Sita will be happy to see him married and will like to play with little Hanumanas. Marriage and propagation of one's genealogical line is a 'dharma' and the way to repay 'pitr rina' (the debt of ancestors).

 

[Chakra]

The name Narayana alone and even terms like Brahman/Atman/etc refer to Krishna and Rama in the Vedas.

 

[spiritualhitchhiker]

Don't know about that. Yes, he has remained a bachelor for a long time. Lord Rama and Mother Sita will be happy to see him married and will like to play with little Hanumanas. Marriage and propagation of one's genealogical line is a 'dharma' and the way to repay 'pitr rina' (the debt of ancestors).

Hanuman is married to Suvarchala according to some myths, both of them are Brahmacharis. About the 'pitr rina', I don't think Hanuman needs to do that, he is the son of Vayu, one of the Devas.

 

[Kirran]

The name Narayana alone and even terms like Brahman/Atman/etc refer to Krishna and Rama in the Vedas.

I would dispute that Brahman and Atman in the Vedas refer to Krishna and Rama. These are overarching terms, which aren't confined to Vaishnavism etc. So yes, the terms Atman and Brahman would, for you, relate to the forms of Vishnu, just as to a Shakta Brahman would be Adi Parashakti, and to a Shaiva Brahman would be Parasiva. But that doesn't mean that that's what's being said in the Vedas.

 

[Chakra]

I would dispute that Brahman and Atman in the Vedas refer to Krishna and Rama. These are overarching terms, which aren't confined to Vaishnavism etc. So yes, the terms Atman and Brahman would, for you, relate to the forms of Vishnu, just as to a Shakta Brahman would be Adi Parashakti, and to a Shaiva Brahman would be Parasiva. But that doesn't mean that that's what's being said in the Vedas.

Of course. I have no problems with Shaiva believing that the Brahman is Shiva and a Shakta believing that Brahman is Durga.

What I meant to say was that ancient Vedantins have even clarified those phrases about Brahman as referring to Vishnu and even Krishna. And yes, that includes Shankara.

 

[Kirran]

Of course. I have no problems with Shaiva believing that the Brahman is Shiva and a Shakta believing that Brahman is Durga.

What I meant to say was that ancient Vedantins have even clarified those phrases about Brahman as referring to Vishnu and even Krishna. And yes, that includes Shankara.

Well firstly, this is of course always interpretation.

Secondly, we must remember, sages will often say things to help the listener's understanding. So if they are talking to a Vaishnava, then they will use terms related to that tradition, and say that Brahman is Vishnu etc. But that doesn't mean they'd tell a Shaiva/Shakta/Christian/Neopagan that Brahman was Vishnu.

 

[Chakra]

Well firstly, this is of course always interpretation.

Secondly, we must remember, sages will often say things to help the listener's understanding. So if they are talking to a Vaishnava, then they will use terms related to that tradition, and say that Brahman is Vishnu etc. But that doesn't mean they'd tell a Shaiva/Shakta/Christian/Neopagan that Brahman was Vishnu.

I'm not going to argue. My post was mainly addressed to Aup-ji. I just wanted to let him know that even Advaitins have accepted the existence of Vishnu/Krishna/Rama as a major deity not as some type of "minor solar deity". It would help if he read the works or parts of Advaitin gurus.