Nihilism (?)

[an anarchist]

I think I am becoming a nihilist.

It seems simple enough, but perhaps it is not so simple.

Life is meaningless.

Do I have that about right?

Please fill me in on what I am missing.

 

[Orbit]

I think I am becoming a nihilist.

It seems simple enough, but perhaps it is not so simple.

Life is meaningless.

Do I have that about right?

Please fill me in on what I am missing.

I just found out that an old friend of mine died. My first thought was "What was the point of his life?". Then I remembered all the good times we had together. Other people is the point. Experiences are the point. Meaning is what you choose to make it.

 

[an anarchist]

I just found out that an old friend of mine died. My first thought was "What was the point of his life?". Then I remembered all the good times we had together. Other people is the point. Experiences are the point. Meaning is what you choose to make it.

Death unfortunately grips us all one way or another throughout our mortal life even before we personally die. To lose a mother. To lose a friend. To lose a child. To lose a pet. All familiar to me.

Perhaps I will be simultaneously a nihilist and a hedonist. I can hold the belief that there is no divine or existential meaning to life. By chance I am here on this Earth. It was not a divine plan for homo sapiens to evolve to the top of the food chain.

I love my family and those close to me, so I can live as a hedonist throughout this mortal life. Focus on my own pleasure and happiness as well as my family's and close ones well being. I think that's what I want to do with my life.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I think I am becoming a nihilist.

It seems simple enough, but perhaps it is not so simple.

Life is meaningless.

Do I have that about right?

Please fill me in on what I am missing.

It has long been said by some that the study of Philosophy can lead to nihilism. I wonder if that is the case since this was posted in the Philosophy forum.

Philosophy can sometimes lead to nihilism, but it can lead to other things as well, some positive. But some paths, just seem to lead to nihilism in Philosophy, and it's bad if one gets stuck on such a path.

I'm not necessarily saying this is the case here, but it could be. If you are spending a lot of time on philosophical study, maybe go outside for awhile, and give it a slight break, then come back to it later.

 

[an anarchist]

But some paths, just seem to lead to nihilism in Philosophy, and it's bad if one gets stuck on such a path.

Why do you say this is so?

Suppose for a second that literal reality dictates there is nothing spiritual/metaphysical natured.

No god(s) and lights out when we die.

If this is the case, then perhaps the religious/spiritual path is the unfortunate one.

To believe in literal falsehoods, I see no personal value in that.

 

[an anarchist]

It has long been said by some that the study of Philosophy can lead to nihilism. I wonder if that is the case since this was posted in the Philosophy forum.

I've studied history and religion more than anything. Accumulated plenty of philosophy books and began to read them, as I have a critical lack of understanding when it comes to philosophy which was important to fix when I was working on writing a religious/political thesis.

But I have changed goals, and a nihilist outlook will probably be best for me to hold if I want to be satisfied with the simple life I am now aiming for.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Why do you say this is so?

Suppose for a second that literal reality dictates there is nothing spiritual/metaphysical natured.

No god(s) and lights out when we die.

If this is the case, then perhaps the religious/spiritual path is the unfortunate one.

To believe in literal falsehoods, I see no personal value in that.

Hmm, well. I'm more of an existentialist. I believe that there isn't much meaning to be born with, but the meaning can be carved out. I'm pretty much a non-theist at this point, too.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Why do you say this is so?

Suppose for a second that literal reality dictates there is nothing spiritual/metaphysical natured.

No god(s) and lights out when we die.

If this is the case, then perhaps the religious/spiritual path is the unfortunate one.

To believe in literal falsehoods, I see no personal value in that.

I'd say that if you think nihilism is best or truest, to go with that. I just wanted to point out that sometimes deep study of Philosophy leads to nihilism in a temporary fashion, from what I have observed, and that the people I've met who classify themselves as nihilists and stay with it, well the ones I have met just don't seem all that much happy, but it could just be my perception of it, or just the people I have met in particular.

 

[vulcanlogician]

Life is meaningless.

Can you support this thesis a bit more?

Do I have that about right?

Please fill me in on what I am missing.

I'm not sure if you have it right, and I'm not sure if you are missing anything. But I'd like more support for the thesis that "life is meaningless" if you don't mind. And from there, I think we can have a more fruitive discussion.

 

[an anarchist]

Can you support this thesis a bit more?

I am not here on this Earth and alive due to Providence, as my religious upbringing led me to believe.

Rather, by chance did molecules clash together over the course of billions of years. I am but one result of chance.

Where these molecules originate from I cannot know. And the true physical nature of my consciousness that is often understood as "I" is unknowable.

Refusing to believe in religion, and accepting I am not in a personal position to discern the reality of nature, what am I to conclude?

Meaning becomes merely a preference. It has no objectivity. Each to their own it is.

 

[vulcanlogician]

I am not here on this Earth and alive due to Providence, as my religious upbringing led me to believe.

Rather, by chance did molecules clash together over the course of billions of years. I am but one result of chance.

Where these molecules originate from I cannot know. And the true physical nature of my consciousness that is often understood as "I" is unknowable.

Refusing to believe in religion, and accepting I am not in a personal position to discern the reality of nature, what am I to conclude?

Meaning becomes merely a preference. It has no objectivity. Each to their own it is.

So you were never "meant" to exist. You could just as easily ended up not existing. In fact, given how unlikely it is for a given universe to randomly produce "exactly you." Chances are, you shouldn't exist.

But you do exist.

Isn't that amazing? If you employ your imagination a little bit, I think you can even squeeze a little bit of "meaningfulness" out of that situation. Given the odds being so high that you shouldn't exist, it seems meaningful (or at the very least special or significant) that you do exist.

And because your existence isn't pre-planned, pre-arranged, or premeditated... that means you are certainly more than just a pawn in God's chess game.

No. You are something more. You are a being who, against all odds, managed to exist and be a part of the world. You can't get a one-liner "fortune cookie" type of meaningfulness out of that. But just that fact alone seems like fertile ground upon which you can plant your own unique seeds of meaning, and try and see what you can manage to grow.

 

[Quintessence]

To posit an observation, it sometimes seems that nihilism results from... as much as I hate this term... excessive navel gazing.

Try less navel gazing and more living.

 

[vulcanlogician]

To posit an observation, it sometimes seems that nihilism results from... as much as I hate this term... excessive navel gazing.

Try less navel gazing and more living.

I kinda disagree with this assessment. Although, in the final analysis, you have as much data as I have concerning an anarchist.

I think navel-gazing (as silly, pointless, or misguided as it may be) leads AWAY from nihilism, not towards it.

Say what you will about navel-gazing or delusion. It's NOT nihilism.

Schizophrenic homeless guy on the streets who thinks he's Jesus. He might be many things. But I'd bet my life savings on one thing: he ain't no nihilist. This dude, even though he is incredibly misguided, believes in something.

 

[blü 2]

I think I am becoming a nihilist.

It seems simple enough, but perhaps it is not so simple.

Life is meaningless.

Do I have that about right?

Please fill me in on what I am missing.

It's normal for mammals ─ you are a mammal, aren't you? ─ to have genetics with a life plan built in. With H sap sap we have children born, we instinctively teach them our language, we raise them and educate them. They take it all in then they reach puberty and (surrounded by tribal rules and customs) they pair off and breed. We meanwhile continue to age and chat to our grandchildren, teaching them wisdom or whatever.

No one is bound to do this, but it happens all the time and if it didn't we wouldn't be here. A similar statement can be made about each of the other kinds of mammals, though they often leave out the grandparent bit.

As for finding life meaningless, that's often a physical condition related to depression, so the remedy is physical. The first thing to try in order to relieve depression is to walk ─ especially in parks and beauty spots if you have any handy ─ for not less than an hour a day, every day weather permitting. (This is a dang fine idea whether you're depressed or not, by the way, and wonderfully inexpensive.)

And in the evening you can write your novel, run your blog, prepare to stand for public office, even go out to dinner with a romantic interest.

If the daily walk doesn't work after a couple of months, get back to me.

 

[Quintessence]

I kinda disagree with this assessment. Although, in the final analysis, you have as much data as I have concerning an anarchist.

I think navel-gazing (as silly, pointless, or misguided as it may be) leads AWAY from nihilism, not towards it.

Say what you will about navel-gazing or delusion. It's NOT nihilism.

Schizophrenic homeless guy on the streets who thinks he's Jesus. He might be many things. But I'd bet my life savings on one thing: he ain't no nihilist. This dude, even though he is incredibly misguided, believes in something.

Maybe.

I make this observation in part because of the other posts and thinking about societal narratives more broadly.

We live in a society where the mainstream cultural religion is extremely anthropocentric. Christianity in particular is what might be termed a death-preparing religion given its fixation on the afterlife. It teaches from the get go that humans are special, and therefore there is an "I" ego identity that must continue after death, as adjudged by some all-mighty god that is personally paying close attention to them. The combination of this super power watching over their ego and this assurance their ego will have a decided fate? That's a lot of fixation inward, isn't it? It sets the expectations revolving all around me, me, me, me, me. Then, if any of those ideas about a personal afterlife or an all-mighty god watching out for them are disrupted, the ego-obsessed human has an increased tendency to go "woe is me, therefore nihilism."

Less inward gazing. More outward gazing. Less cogito, ergo sum. More estis, ergo sum. That's what a lot of folks who walk into nihilism are missing. Speaking as someone who had that phase as a kid. Remembering it ain't all about you, and it ain't all about humans is important.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It has long been said by some that the study of Philosophy can lead to nihilism. I wonder if that is the case since this was posted in the Philosophy forum.

If that were true then more philosophers would be nihilists. But llts of peoplebhave all sorts of dumb, silly, misguided amd wrong beliefs about what learning philosophy does.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

If that were true then more philosophers would be nihilists

Like I said, Philosophy can lead to other things besides nihilism, but I wouldn't discount the phenomena of beginners of Philosophy studying it, then coming to the conclusion upon excessive study that they are somehow a nihilist, then (usually) backing away from the idea later - which sometimes takes years, though. It's a phenomena that's been documented for years on social media sites, including recently on Reddit (where some agreed and some disagreed with that notion).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Like I said, Philosophy can lead to other things besides nihilism, but I wouldn't discount the phenomena of beginners of Philosophy studying it, then coming to the conclusion upon excessive study that they are somehow a nihilist, then (usually) backing away from the idea later - which sometimes takes years, though. It's a phenomena that's been documented for years on social media sites, including recently on Reddit (where some agreed and some disagreed with that notion).

That's easily dismissable or actually see it happening and it would be documented by actual studies and particularly undergrad philosophy students.
Amd I'm nkt surprised people agree to it on Reddit and social media. You can find people who believe anything on it.
And it ignores how most of philosophy isn't nihilist. Such as how Nietzsche saw nihilism as something to be avoided, and you won't find it in Socrates, Descartes, Kant, Marcus Aurelius, Rawls, Rumi or Lao Tsu.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

That's easily dismissable or actually see it happening and it would be documented by actual studies and particularly undergrad philosophy students.
Amd I'm nkt surprised people agree to it on Reddit and social media. You can find people who believe anything on it.

Fair.

And it ignores how most of philosophy isn't nihilist. Such as how Nietzsche saw nihilism as something to be avoided, and you won't find it in Socrates, Descartes, Kant, Marcus Aurelius, Rawls, Rumi or Lao Tsu.

I agree.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Fair.




I agree.

I think it's more America has long shuns learning for learning's sake and looked down on learning things not immediately applicable in things like work/manual labor. I've heard all kinds of warnings how all the philosophy is bad for me, even how it will drive me mad and I'll end up in the looney bin. Learning is good for us, but America is markedly anti-intellectual.