No jab = higher health insurance premiums

[Subduction Zone]

Services are not provided to people who cannot pay for them, either out of pocket or through insurance, other than emergency services. You know this, yes?

No, not in this case.

Are you telling us that you have been debating this all along and did not know what you are arguing for?

 

[Left Coast]

LOL! You were the one that used the term antivaxxers.

Yes, and I corrected myself that I should have said unvaccinated people. Did you look at any of the research on what influences vaccine decisions?

And no, what you are saying is false. No matter how many times your repeat it. No one is advocating taking away coverage.

If you do not understand then ask politely and I will try to explain it to you again.

If someone doesn't get vaccinated and can't afford the increased premium, will they continue to have health coverage?

 

[sun rise]

I'm a supporters of single payer, so I don't think we should have/need privately funded healthcare. Again, that's the whole point. I want universal healthcare, not healthcare as a privilege for those who can afford it.

Single payer does not mean that everyone pays the same - only that there is no competition for people to sign up.

 

[Left Coast]

No, not in this case.

Are you telling us that you have been debating this all along and did not know what you are arguing for?

Sorry, do you know something not in the article?

The only exemption I'm seeing is this:

"About 8% of Delta’s roughly 12,000 pilots are exempt from the $200 surcharge even if they are unvaccinated because they had previously elected a health care plan that comes with higher premiums. That health care plan had been negotiated as part of their contract. A change would require Delta to negotiate with the union, which has said most of the pilots are vaccinated."

 

[Left Coast]

Single payer does not mean that everyone pays the same - only that there is no competition for people to sign up.

Yes, that is true. I'd advocate for progressive taxation to cover the costs, disproportionately paid by the richest in society.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, and I corrected myself that I should have said unvaccinated people. Did you look at any of the research on what influences vaccine decisions?

Perhaps you could name some of these. If they have nothing valid there is no difference between them and antivaxxers.

If someone doesn't get vaccinated and can't afford the increased premium, will they continue to have health coverage?

You need to go back and read the article. You obviously have no clue what this is about. You are asking a poorly formed question that looks like it is based upon ignorance.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, do you know something not in the article?

The only exemption I'm seeing is this:

"About 8% of Delta’s roughly 12,000 pilots are exempt from the $200 surcharge even if they are unvaccinated because they had previously elected a health care plan that comes with higher premiums. That health care plan had been negotiated as part of their contract. A change would require Delta to negotiate with the union, which has said most of the pilots are vaccinated."

That appears to be the article that you did not appear to understand.

Please note. These people have jobs. Part of the union contract is that their health insurance is paid for. That means that as long as they are working they have healthcare. No one is advocating that the lose their healthcare.

 

[Left Coast]

Perhaps you could name some of these. If they have nothing valid there is no difference between them and antivaxxers.

It's not about unvaccinated people having valid reasons. It's about what factors influence their decision to get vaccinated. Recommendations from a personal doctor or other healthcare worker is a big one of those factors.

You need to go back and read the article. You obviously have no clue what this is about. You are asking a poorly formed question that looks like it is based upon ignorance.

You have a tendency of making things personal that don't need to be. Someone can disagree with you without being an ignoramus.

After rereading the article, I'm still unclear as to what you think is there that I'm not seeing. What happens to employees who are unvaccinated and can't afford the increased premium?

 

[Left Coast]

That appears to be the article that you did not appear to understand.

Please note. These people have jobs. Part of the union contract is that their health insurance is paid for. That means that as long as they are working they have healthcare. No one is advocating that the lose their healthcare.

So from what I'm seeing the union exemption only applies to 8% of pilots. It does not say that all the employees are unionized. And many airline employees are not pilots. Broadly speaking, employer-based insurance premiums are taken from employee pay.

If you're aware of some other arrangement wherein these folks won't be directly charged an additional $200/month in order to keep their insurance, let me know.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's not about unvaccinated people having valid reasons. It's about what factors influence their decision to get vaccinated. Recommendations from a personal doctor or other healthcare worker is a big one of those factors.

Citation needed.

You have a tendency of making things personal that don't need to be. Someone can disagree with you without being an ignoramus.

After rereading the article, I'm still unclear as to what you think is there that I'm not seeing. What happens to employees who are unvaccinated and can't afford the increased premium?

You did the same.

Let's do this one point at a time.

These people have jobs, right?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So from what I'm seeing the union exemption only applies to 8% of pilots. It does not say that all the employees are unionized. And many airline employees are not pilots. Broadly speaking, employer-based insurance premiums are taken from employee pay.

If you're aware of some other arrangement wherein these folks won't be directly charged an additional $200/month in order to keep their insurance, let me know.

Oh, they will be charged. That was never in doubt. Which means that you were wrong about denying healthcare. Can you admit that?

 

[Left Coast]

Citation needed.

Here's a couple:

Doctors’ recommendations boost COVID-19 vaccine acceptance

Time for doctors to take center stage in COVID-19 vaccine push

Survey: Communication with parents can boost COVID-19 vaccinations in children

You did the same.

No, to be honest, I did not. But let's keep the subject on point moving forward.

Let's do this one point at a time.

Happy to.

These people have jobs, right?

Yes. We agree that's a terrible way of organizing healthcare coverage, right?

 

[Left Coast]

Oh, they will be charged. That was never in doubt. Which means that you were wrong about denying healthcare. Can you admit that?

It's not about inability to admit it, it's that I don't think you're correct.

If they don't get insurance coverage through their employer, will they be charged? Or is your claim that every single one of then must get coverage through their employer? If that was the case they'd be unlike any private employer I've ever heard of. Participation in benefits are generally voluntary.

 

[Revoltingest]

What happens when it is, though? People don't get coverage, right? Thus the system you're advocating is not universal coverage.

You're not listening.
Coverage, but with added cost for bad behavior.
Or if you prefer, reduced benefits.
Either way, there should be incentives.
Think of it as like work....the better worker gets more pay.

Did you know that one of the most influential variables in changing the mind of people who are hesitant about vaccines is whether it's recommended by their personal doctor?

I'd have guessed that it's a factor.

In order to have a personal doctor, you have to be able to afford it, ie have insurance.

Again, you're missing my favoring universal coverage.

So if you want to discourage anti-vaxx attitudes, advocate a system that expands coverage rather than contracting it. That's what will actually work if you care about that issue.

Please read more carefully.

 

[Left Coast]

You're not listening.
Coverage, but with added cost for bad behavior.
Or if you prefer, reduced benefits.
Either way, there should be incentives.
Think of it as like work....the better worker gets more pay.

I'd have guessed that it's a factor.

Again, you're missing my favoring universal coverage.

Please read more carefully.

If increased cost makes the coverage unaffordable...then coverage ceases, because people can't pay for it. That is the point. Such is not a universal system of coverage.

If you're now advocating for "reduced benefits"...which benefits? Denying them specialty care, for example?

I don't think the issue is my failure to read. The issue seems more to be that you want to have your cake and eat it too. (Or perhaps your bacon.)

 

[Revoltingest]

If increased cost makes the coverage unaffordable...then coverage ceases, because people can't pay for it. That is the point. Such is not a universal system of coverage.

If you're now advocating for "reduced benefits"...which benefits? Denying them specialty care, for example?

I don't think the issue is my failure to read. The issue seems more to be that you want to have your cake and eat it too. (Or perhaps your bacon.)

Time to agree to disagree.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here's a couple:

Doctors’ recommendations boost COVID-19 vaccine acceptance

Time for doctors to take center stage in COVID-19 vaccine push

Survey: Communication with parents can boost COVID-19 vaccinations in children

That was not what you were supposed to support.

No, to be honest, I did not. But let's keep the subject on point moving forward.

You did.

Happy to.



Yes. We agree that's a terrible way of organizing healthcare coverage, right?

Sorry no editorializing allowed. Try again. Just answer the question.

 

[Left Coast]

That was not what you were supposed to support.



You did.



Sorry no editorializing allowed. Try again. Just answer the question.

Sorry, I did answer the question. And also provided citations for your first question.

What next?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's not about inability to admit it, it's that I don't think you're correct.

If they don't get insurance coverage through their employer, will they be charged? Or is your claim that every single one of then must get coverage through their employer? If that was the case they'd be unlike any private employer I've ever heard of. Participation in benefits are generally voluntary.

Yes, you think others are wrong. In this case it is clear that the airline is doing the ethical thing. Their workers are not unionized. Not because of union busting for lower wages, but because they pay them well enough so that in a competitive job market the employees still see that there is an advantage to represent themselves. They are well paid, so the argument "what if they cannot afford the extra $200 fails". No one is saying that they will lose their coverage. They will only pay an extra $200. per month because they refuse to perform a reasonable act. And do you know who else supports this sort of surcharge? Obama. In the AOC a surplus can be charged to smokers. And not a small one either. Smoking is an act that everyone else has to pay for if that is not the case. That is not ethical. Covid care is something that everyone else has to pay for that is not fair to do their part to end this.

If they can charge extra for smokers, which is an addiction by the way, very hard to quit, they can charge extra for not getting a vaccine that is so close to painless that I did not feel when I tried to:
What You Need to Know About Smoking and Health Insurance

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, I did answer the question. And also provided citations for your first question.

What next?

Nope. Is context a problem for you. You made this claim:

It's about what factors influence their decision to get vaccinated.

Then you posted some "doctors recommendations" and that really is not going to help at this time. We are far past that. One has to be deaf blind and dumb if one needs a doctors recommendation and people that have not been vaccinated are unlikely to do so because of that reason. I know too many deniers. The hep from doctors saying "Well you really should get the vaccination" will not help.