No need for someone to try to derail others belief or religion

[epronovost]

Spiritually I think we are in a very stone age area now in 2020 very different from 2000-2500 years ago when they actually were a lot more advanced in spiritual practice then we are today.

You don't know much about history do you?

 

[Spirit of Light]

You don't know much about history do you?

I know about the history of spiritual living, But I don't have an interest in the mundane "scientific" history of "evolution" no

 

[paarsurrey]

Buddha Sakyamuni as a teacher would answer questions because he was able to answer everything within his wisdom. He is a buddha/ enlighten one. But questions above his wisdom level would be difficult even for him to answer But when it comes to disrespect or negative asked questions he would often return with a question, or just keep silent

"But questions above his wisdom level would be difficult even for him to answer."

Was there a time when Prophet/Messenger Buddha Gautama Siddhartha found that some questions were difficult and above his wisdom level to answer, please?

Regards

 

[epronovost]

I know about the history of spiritual living, But I don't have an interest in the mundane "scientific" history of "evolution" no

Are you trying to say that you don't know anything about history as an academic discipline based on the historical method supported by archeology? Your answer makes no sense.

 

[Spirit of Light]

"But questions above his wisdom level would be difficult even for him to answer."

Was there a time when Prophet/Messenger Buddha Gautama Siddhartha found that some questions were difficult and above his wisdom level to answer, please?

Regards

As far as i know, Siddharta Gautama did not become Buddha before later in his cultivation, it means even he was teaching for more than 40 years of his life (he died at age 84) He did many times discover that what he had been teaching before was not the highest truth he could understand, so in the 40 years he was often to explain his teaching over and over again, in a new way, because his wisdom had become deeper. He realized more and more, and by this, he had to teach again the same topic many times. But in my understanding he was able to answer all the questions asked toward him, but only to the level of wisdom he at that time held.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are you trying to say that you don't know anything about history as an academic discipline based on the historical method supported by archeology? Your answer makes no sense.

I have a general understanding of the archeology and what they have found so far. But to me, the teaching from spiritual masters holds a lot more sense in what they say, then what science says.

 

[epronovost]

I have a general understanding of the archeology and what they have found so far. But to me, the teaching from spiritual masters holds a lot more sense in what they say, then what science says.

Do you even have the slightest idea of what I'm talking about? It feels like you are completely ignorant of a vast swath of knowledge. I am talking about history, the historical method and philology. Do you know anything about those things?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Do you even have the slightest idea of what I'm talking about? It feels like you are completely ignorant of a vast swath of knowledge. I am talking about history, the historical method and philology. Do you know anything about those things?

I am 100% focused on spiritual lifestyle, so no mundane scientific ideas do not interest me at all, So how historians believe we have lived from things they find in the soil is of no use to me in my search of spiritual truth.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Spiritually I think we are in a very stone age area now in 2020 very different from 2000-2500 years ago when they actually were a lot more advanced in spiritual practice then we are today.

It would be kind of interesting to hear of a progressive spiritual practice. I haven't really heard of any although I understand that practices can change. Whether it's for the better or not, I suppose it's up to the individual and how they perceive it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It would be kind of interesting to hear of a progressive spiritual practice. I haven't really heard of any although I understand that practices can change. Whether it's for the better or not, I suppose it's up to the individual and how they perceive it.

One thing we can experience today is that people want to change spiritual teachings because they disagree with it, so they say the teaching must be wrong or evil, but do they not understand it's them who must change, to become like the teaching tell them is the right way to realize the truth within the teaching? If the teaching is changed by a non-enlightened person the teaching becomes impossible to give the correct understanding of what the teacher actually was teaching.
That would not happen 2500 years ago, because they respected the enlighten being a lot more then many do today.

 

[Twilight Hue]

One thing we can experience today is that people want to change spiritual teachings because they disagree with it, so they say the teaching must be wrong or evil, but do they not understand it's them who must change, to become like the teaching tell them is the right way to realize the truth within the teaching? If the teaching is changed by a non-enlightened person the teaching becomes impossible to give the correct understanding of what the teacher actually was teaching.
That would not happen 2500 years ago, because they respected the enlighten being a lot more then many do today.

I really don't see people in those days as being any more or less significant than people are today. I do know however that the more rigid the religion, the least effective it's going to be as cultures and times change.

It's a safe bet that a number of religious based teachings are quite obsolete and out of date which would explain well many variations and changes that had occurred to which some are clearly dead ends and others are still viable.

There's a charm with the old ways, but not always a practical road in face of the realities and dynamics of consistent change.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I think we all could be better at cheering and inspire those who are on a spiritual path, instead of trying to debunk them or telling them how wrong they are. When someone finds a path/teaching that truly reach deep into their soul, and they do their best to become better, some of the worst experience for them then is when others trying to tell them, you are wrong, or your belief is false, your religion is evil and so on. Maybe you think that of other's beliefs or religion, but why do your "negativity toward their belief" have to be told so to derail their path? How about if you do not believe, ask good questions to those who do believe, like. What does your religion do to your daily life, how do you understand this "topic" or just tell them it is good they found a path that can lead them to become even better as human beings.

My belief or understanding of the spiritual teaching I cultivate is for me to understand, so to make it possible for me to gain inner wisdom, for those who do not follow the same spiritual teaching it should not matter what I do in the cultivation, except for if you are interested in learning the same teaching too. then it is good to ask a question for learning, but no need to ask questions for tearing down something you have not yet understood why is told the way it is told.

Asking questions is good, as long the intention is good.
Asking questions for tearing someone down, is just an act of evil.

Part of my worldview includes the necessity of helping each other out when we have strayed from the path of truth, and that includes pointing out errors or deconstructing falsity. This post of yours is an attack on my worldview if I were to filter it through your lens. Shouldn’t you not try to tear down my worldview since I am on a spiritual path?

 

[epronovost]

I am 100% focused on spiritual lifestyle, so no mundane scientific ideas do not interest me at all, So how historians believe we have lived from things they find in the soil is of no use to me in my search of spiritual truth.

You should be aware that historians and archeologists don't do the same things. One analyses documents, records and object to explain and discover past events, past beliefs, etc. while the other search, restaures and identify artefacts. They often work in tandem to explore the past a bit like astronomers and physicists explore the universe together. How can you understand the writtings of past gurus, prophets, philosophers, poets, clerics if you don't understand their context. Do you seriously think you can extract profound wisdom from the words of past sages if you don't understand the past? It's more likely you'll end up with a bowdlerized version of their teachings. It's also very likely you'll end up following the lures of charlatans and history is full of them seeking people just like you: not very critical, in search of answer and ignorant of a lot of key details.

There is nothing wrong about focusing "on a spiritual life", but intellectual laziness is a problem. If you truly seek wisdom and spiritual enlightenment, you will need to do more intellectual work than most scientists. You will have to know the world and yourself (yes this includes a lot of sciences), the past, litterature, folklore and philosophy; you will also need to travel and explore on your own to discover more and get different perspective. You will have to be very, very critical and very, very curious and very, very dedicated. Wisdom is hard to acquire, you probably never will know if you are truly wise or not. If there is wisdom, there is folly; if there is truth, there is falsehood. You will have to make the difference between the two and what you will consider truth and wisdom will be questionned by those who disagree. It's important to face opposition. It forces people to think about their beliefs, provide deeper thoughts to defend their point and perhapse save you from error.

 

[Milton Platt]

I think we all could be better at cheering and inspire those who are on a spiritual path, instead of trying to debunk them or telling them how wrong they are. When someone finds a path/teaching that truly reach deep into their soul, and they do their best to become better, some of the worst experience for them then is when others trying to tell them, you are wrong, or your belief is false, your religion is evil and so on. Maybe you think that of other's beliefs or religion, but why do your "negativity toward their belief" have to be told so to derail their path? How about if you do not believe, ask good questions to those who do believe, like. What does your religion do to your daily life, how do you understand this "topic" or just tell them it is good they found a path that can lead them to become even better as human beings.

My belief or understanding of the spiritual teaching I cultivate is for me to understand, so to make it possible for me to gain inner wisdom, for those who do not follow the same spiritual teaching it should not matter what I do in the cultivation, except for if you are interested in learning the same teaching too. then it is good to ask a question for learning, but no need to ask questions for tearing down something you have not yet understood why is told the way it is told.

Asking questions is good, as long the intention is good.
Asking questions for tearing someone down, is just an act of evil.[/QUOTE

I'm an atheist and I am fully on board with that, with a few qualifications.

If you do not every wish anyone else to share your beliefs, fine. (seems like a lonely place to be)
If you do not wish to ever have your beliefs taught in public schools, fine.
If you do not want laws enacted which favor your beliefs, fine.

 

[Deeje]

The way you see it, do you really think those terrorists who kill others are good Muslims?
The answer to this question in my mind would be, they are not even close to following the true teaching of Islam. Or at least not close to finding the truth they would find if they did cultivate their own mind and body, instead of showing hate toward others.

With those who are promoting their own religions as truth, all they need to do is ask themselves one simple question....."If everyone in the world belonged to my religion, would the world be a better place?" Would killing stop? Would envy and jealousy disappear? Would crime and violence be a thing of the past? Would greed still make people want what others have? Would human-imposed suffering end?

Look at the conduct of the people who belong to those various religions and it becomes clear that if they support bloodshed or corrupt political leaders, or exhibit those traits, then they really have no interest in pleasing God.

In his sermon on the mount, Jesus said..."Happy are the peacemakers, since they will be called sons of God."
What does it mean to be a "peacemaker"? Today we have "peacekeepers" but these people have weapons to enforce peace. Is that what real peace is? Genuine peace comes from within....only a peaceful heart produces the kind of peace that Jesus spoke about. It is facilitating peaceful relations with others by not participating in open hostility that may lead to violence. Does this mean that we all have to agree? Not necessarily, because God gave us all personal choices.....but the one common denominator in our spiritual path should be the desire to please God....not making it about our own personal journey since we are not alone on our path. If we all have that third person in our relationships, then peace will be a natural part of our lives. That means peace with the world and peace with one another. If you remove the cause for friction, then friction cannot exist. The Bible says that God will remove all the causes of friction with the coming of his kingdom. It will mean "peace on earth" at last.....I for one like that option.

Spiritually I think we are in a very stone age area now in 2020 very different from 2000-2500 years ago when they actually were a lot more advanced in spiritual practice then we are today.

It is interesting that you mention this. Spirituality is dying in our very secular world. Science has replaced religion to become a 'religion' on its own....argued as passionately as if their deity was being challenged or besmirched. Oh the blasphemy!

For those not scientifically minded there is always SPORT....with devotees coming together in their thousands (pre-Covid 19) to watch their idols running around a bit of grass with a ball of different shapes and sizes, playing war games with those in opposing uniforms.

The need to "worship" is still there but funneled off into other areas of interest. People have no real idea that this is what they are doing.....

I am 100% focused on spiritual lifestyle, so no mundane scientific ideas do not interest me at all, So how historians believe we have lived from things they find in the soil is of no use to me in my search of spiritual truth.

Thank you for this very important fact.....no one and nothing is a replacement for God and our inborn need to worship. If we are not 100% focused on our spiritual path, there is every chance that we will be sidetracked onto another path that is actually a "dead" end.

 

[izzy88]

I think we all could be better at cheering and inspire those who are on a spiritual path, instead of trying to debunk them or telling them how wrong they are. When someone finds a path/teaching that truly reach deep into their soul, and they do their best to become better, some of the worst experience for them then is when others trying to tell them, you are wrong, or your belief is false, your religion is evil and so on. Maybe you think that of other's beliefs or religion, but why do your "negativity toward their belief" have to be told so to derail their path? How about if you do not believe, ask good questions to those who do believe, like. What does your religion do to your daily life, how do you understand this "topic" or just tell them it is good they found a path that can lead them to become even better as human beings.

My belief or understanding of the spiritual teaching I cultivate is for me to understand, so to make it possible for me to gain inner wisdom, for those who do not follow the same spiritual teaching it should not matter what I do in the cultivation, except for if you are interested in learning the same teaching too. then it is good to ask a question for learning, but no need to ask questions for tearing down something you have not yet understood why is told the way it is told.

Asking questions is good, as long the intention is good.
Asking questions for tearing someone down, is just an act of evil.

This is really all about whether you believe truth is relative or objective.

Someone who believes truth is objective, holds it as one of their highest ideals, and cares about other people, is going to want to do whatever they can to help lead others to truth. That means speaking up when you see something that you believe is untrue, and when that happens there will likely be a back and forth as each person presents support for their beliefs, and in the end both people will hopefully learn something - regardless of whether they come to an agreement on what's true.

On the other hand, if you believe that truth is relative or subjective - that each person can have "their own truth" - then I can see why you'd be opposed to having arguments over what's true. The problem is, if you do indeed believe truth is subjective, why are you making a thread trying to convince other people that you're right about this? For those of us who believe that finding truth is important and that argumentation is a good way to uncover it and share it with others, you're attacking our beliefs right now by telling us to stop attacking other people's beliefs. So it seems you've gotten yourself into quite a conundrum...

I wholeheartedly agree, though, that we should always try to be respectful when discussing these things, which means not being condescending, not insulting people, etc. But that doesn't mean we should ever stop questioning people about their beliefs and challenging them to defend them. If we cannot defend what we believe, we really have no right to assert that any of it is true.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Part of my worldview includes the necessity of helping each other out when we have strayed from the path of truth, and that includes pointing out errors or deconstructing falsity. This post of yours is an attack on my worldview if I were to filter it through your lens. Shouldn’t you not try to tear down my worldview since I am on a spiritual path?

To help someone is the best we can do, But not by saying negative comments about them or their path. To correct someone with a question like for example. In the teaching, it say "quote the teaching" then ask why the person does not follow this. Do not attack the person because you disagree with him. Just ask questions.

My OP is not an attack of any spiritual/religious person or path. If ever it was an "attack" it would be toward those who try to tear down other people's beliefs. and often in forums that are unfortunately Atheists

 

[Spirit of Light]

This is really all about whether you believe truth is relative or objective.

Someone who believes truth is objective, holds it as one of their highest ideals, and cares about other people, is going to want to do whatever they can to help lead others to truth. That means speaking up when you see something that you believe is untrue, and when that happens there will likely be a back and forth as each person presents support for their beliefs, and in the end both people will hopefully learn something - regardless of whether they come to an agreement on what's true.

On the other hand, if you believe that truth is relative or subjective - that each person can have "their own truth" - then I can see why you'd be opposed to having arguments over what's true. The problem is, if you do indeed believe truth is subjective, why are you making a thread trying to convince other people that you're right about this? For those of us who believe that finding truth is important and that argumentation is a good way to uncover it and share it with others, you're attacking our beliefs right now by telling us to stop attacking other people's beliefs. So it seems you've gotten yourself into quite a conundrum...

I wholeheartedly agree, though, that we should always try to be respectful when discussing these things, which means not being condescending, not insulting people, etc. But that doesn't mean we should ever stop questioning people about their beliefs and challenging them to defend them. If we cannot defend what we believe, we really have no right to assert that any of it is true.

Truth is understood differently from person to person, it means yes it does exist an ultimate truth about everything, But we as human beings do not see it clearly, And we are on different levels of wisdom when it comes to what spiritual truth is (i do not speak of mundane physical truth as in science)

My "truth" is not the highest there is to find. But i have my understanding of the truth. I do not claim to know the ultimate truth, but I claim that just because we do see the truth differently does not mean I have the right to speak badly, negative or even evil about certain groups of spirituality/religions, or behave like an idiot toward people of spiritual paths.

This OP is not an attack, it is an OP that should be protecting believers/spiritual people from the attack from non-believers.

 

[Spirit of Light]

@Milton Platt

The only one who can teach Falun Gong is my teacher Li Hongzhi, so no I am not here to teach others about it, but I can share my understanding of the teaching.

It would be good if others were beginning to follow the same path, But it is their choice, I have no interest in forcing anyone to follow the same path I do, but if people ask nicely, of course, i will share what i know about it, and info needed to begin cultivation.

I don't care about human law wanting or not to spread the teaching, The teaching has already been spread to most every country in the world, so it is up to others to pick it up and start learning, It is free to learn it, and nobody can force it upon others or forcefully take it away from them.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I think we all could be better at cheering and inspire those who are on a spiritual path, instead of trying to debunk them or telling them how wrong they are. When someone finds a path/teaching that truly reach deep into their soul, and they do their best to become better, some of the worst experience for them then is when others trying to tell them, you are wrong, or your belief is false, your religion is evil and so on. Maybe you think that of other's beliefs or religion, but why do your "negativity toward their belief" have to be told so to derail their path? How about if you do not believe, ask good questions to those who do believe, like. What does your religion do to your daily life, how do you understand this "topic" or just tell them it is good they found a path that can lead them to become even better as human beings.

My belief or understanding of the spiritual teaching I cultivate is for me to understand, so to make it possible for me to gain inner wisdom, for those who do not follow the same spiritual teaching it should not matter what I do in the cultivation, except for if you are interested in learning the same teaching too. then it is good to ask a question for learning, but no need to ask questions for tearing down something you have not yet understood why is told the way it is told.

Asking questions is good, as long the intention is good.
Asking questions for tearing someone down, is just an act of evil.

Converting others is a core purpose of Christianity so Christians will try and debunk other beliefs and try to convert them.

Also, I think religious beliefs should be scrutinised to see if they are harmful or not. For me, there have been certain beliefs that I have scrutinised and see no harm in them, so I leave them alone, while others are harmful and I try to help others think critical (which is in my limited ability to think critically).