No one speaks for all Baha’is

[iam1me]

I shall speak for them...

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I shall speak for them...

Though that is funny, I can say there will be always someone that can speak for all Baha'i and that is Baha'u'llah. The writings are 100% accurate and it is proved Baha'u'llah existed.

Thus Christ the Son in the Station of the Father Baha'u'llah has said in the "Summons of the Lord if Hosts";

"....Thus have We built the Temple with the hands of power and might, could ye but know it. This is the Temple promised unto you in the Book. Draw ye nigh unto it. This is that which profiteth you, could ye but comprehend it. Be fair, O peoples of the earth! Which is preferable, this, or a temple which is built of clay? Set your faces towards it. Thus have ye been commanded by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Follow ye His bidding, and praise ye God, your Lord, for that which He hath bestowed upon you. He, verily, is the Truth. No God is there but He. He revealeth what He pleaseth, through His words “Be and it is”.

I personally can not speak for Baha'u'llah, nor can anybody else, He has spoken and now we can only share.

Much the same as a Christain can share what is written in the Bible, but the Bible warns about those that offer interpretations that are not a true prophets.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

(in a reply to arthra)

In His book of laws, Baha'u'llah said "When the Mystic Dove will have winged its flight from its Sanctuary of Praise and sought its far-off goal, its hidden habitation, refer ye whatsoever ye understand not in the Book to Him Who hath branched from this mighty Stock."
(The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 82)

According to Abdu'l-Baha, that made Him an authorized interpreter of the writings of Baha'u'llah during Abdu'l-Baha's lifetime after the death of Baha'u'llah, so what Abdu'l-Baha says about what Baha'u'llah says, has the same authority as what Baha'u'llah says. I've never seen any Baha'is openly contesting that, but I've known some who didn't actually believe it.

It is an unreasonable claim.
It makes Bahaullah a weak person and makes Bahaullah's claim of god-head as unreasonable.

Regards

 

[Jim]

It is an unreasonable claim.
It makes Bahaullah a weak person and makes Bahaullah's claim of god-head as unreasonable.

Regards

What have I done to you? Why do you keep tagging me, to stab at the person I'm following? What kind of regards is that?

ETA:

Okay, I see. It's not about me.

 

[paarsurrey]

No one speaks for all Baha’is

Is that a matter of pride, please?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Though that is funny, I can say there will be always someone that can speak for all Baha'i and that is Baha'u'llah. The writings are 100% accurate and it is proved Baha'u'llah existed.

Thus Christ the Son in the Station of the Father Baha'u'llah has said in the "Summons of the Lord if Hosts";

"....Thus have We built the Temple with the hands of power and might, could ye but know it. This is the Temple promised unto you in the Book. Draw ye nigh unto it. This is that which profiteth you, could ye but comprehend it. Be fair, O peoples of the earth! Which is preferable, this, or a temple which is built of clay? Set your faces towards it. Thus have ye been commanded by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Follow ye His bidding, and praise ye God, your Lord, for that which He hath bestowed upon you. He, verily, is the Truth. No God is there but He. He revealeth what He pleaseth, through His words “Be and it is”.

I personally can not speak for Baha'u'llah, nor can anybody else, He has spoken and now we can only share.

Much the same as a Christain can share what is written in the Bible, but the Bible warns about those that offer interpretations that are not a true prophets.

Regards Tony

" The writings are 100% accurate " Unquote.
Mirza Hussein Ali Nouri was born of a woman and was a human being so his writing must have errors. His writings where he quoted from Quran and the Bahais friends here copy/pasted them here had serious errors of understandings and interpreting them. I requested them to quote the verses with the context verses of Quran and see Mirza Hussein Ali Nouri's obvious mistakes but they never did it. They must have realized him being wrong.
The man Mirza Hussein Ali Nouri was fallible like any other human being,please.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The Universal House of Justice makes authoritative statements about what Baha’is believe. The rest are just personal opinions.

I observe that the Bahais friends here don't express themselves in a straightforward manner and with clarity about Bahaullah, if he was god or not god. They seem to be divided on the issue.
What does The Universal House of Justice say on it?:

Did Bahaullah say that he is a servant of G-d, not a G-d, and there is no other G-d but G-d and denied god-head for him (Bahaullah) in clear and unequivocal manner?
​

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Mirza Hussein Ali Nouri was born of a woman and was a human being so his writing must have errors.

Muhammad was born of a women, so according to that test, you would also be saying that Muhammad's Revelation contained errors! In fact you would be saying all Gods Messengers had error in revelation.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

I observe that the Bahais friends here don't express themselves in a straightforward manner and with clarity about Bahaullah, if he was god or not god. They seem to be divided on the issue.
What does The Universal House of Justice say on it?:

Did Bahaullah say that he is a servant of G-d, not a G-d, and there is no other G-d but G-d and denied god-head for him (Bahaullah) in clear and unequivocal manner?
​

Regards

Their division stems from their powers of comprehension, not from the writings themselves which are clear.

If you want the opinion of the Universal House of Justice then write to it, but be prepared to wait because they have a lot of correspondence and yours will be at the end of the que.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
I observe that the Bahais friends here don't express themselves in a straightforward manner and with clarity about Bahaullah, if he was god or not god. They seem to be divided on the issue.
What does The Universal House of Justice say on it?:
Did Bahaullah say that he is a servant of G-d, not a G-d, and there is no other G-d but G-d and denied god-head for him (Bahaullah) in clear and unequivocal manner?

Their division stems from their powers of comprehension, not from the writings themselves which are clear.

If you want the opinion of the Universal House of Justice then write to it, but be prepared to wait because they have a lot of correspondence and yours will be at the end of the que.

I don't believe in the authority of Bahai "Universal House of Justice", it is a prime issue, the Bahais must know it. Right, please?
Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

paarsurrey said: ↑
I observe that the Bahais friends here don't express themselves in a straightforward manner and with clarity about Bahaullah, if he was god or not god. They seem to be divided on the issue.
What does The Universal House of Justice say on it?:
Did Bahaullah say that he is a servant of G-d, not a G-d, and there is no other G-d but G-d and denied god-head for him (Bahaullah) in clear and unequivocal manner?

Paarsurry - I will provide a link since you have asked this question many times, also a couple of quotes;

This is the station of the Messengers;

"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers."

Now the firm answer you asked about;

"How impossible it is for one human being to understand the reality of another human soul; how much more inconceivable is it that any man could comprehend the nature of a Manifestation of God or correctly appraise the manifold and mysterious relationships that exist between the Manifestations in Their work as the Bearers of the Word of God to mankind. One aspect, however, is made abundantly clear by Shoghi Effendi in "The Dispensation of Bahá'u'lláh":"That Bahá'u'lláh should, notwithstanding the overwhelming intensity of His Revelation, be regarded as essentially one of these Manifestations of God, never to be identified with that invisible Reality, the Essence of Divinity itself, is one of the major beliefs of our Faith — a belief which should never be obscured and the integrity of which no one of its followers should allow to be compromised."

3 letters on this - Station of Baha'u'llah

"Baha'u'llah explains that there are differences in the levels of understanding of individuals. Some see the reflection of the Essence of God Himself in the temple of His Manifestation; others see the Manifestation as the Revealer of God and regard His commands and prohibitions to be identical with the ordinances of God. Both views, Bahá'u'lláh says, are acceptable, but if believers in expounding their points of view engage in contention and disputation, they would be rejected by God, inasmuch as the purpose of the Manifestation of God and the aim of His Teaching are to attract souls, create fellowship among men and promulgate the Cause of God."

Regards Tony

 

[Marcion]

"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers."

So it seems Bahai believers are ordered by Bahaullah to make no distinction between those that Bahaullah has designated as "Manifestations" or else they are declared by him as "unbelievers".
Which means one has to believe that Bahaullah had the knowledge to be the judge of who these special personalities were.
But where are the texts in which Bahaullah explains in detail what kind of knowledge he has applied to come to his conclusion?
It reminds me somewhat of the Sikh religion, they also seem to make no distinctions and recognize the great teachers of India as prophets or messengers but not as divine personalities so as not to spoil the monotheism forced on them by the occupying Muslims.
This is the influence of the Islamic brand of monotheism, it is based on religious dogma rather than careful philosophical analysis.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is the influence of the Islamic brand of monotheism, it is based on religious dogma rather than careful philosophical analysis.

If careful philosophical analysis is undertaken, then it should prove those words true or false.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So it seems Bahai believers are ordered by Bahaullah to make no distinction between those that Bahaullah has designated as "Manifestations" or else they are declared by him as "unbelievers".

The word is "beware". It is saying disunity in, or prefering one of Gods Messengers over the others, has consequences.

Thus we still have a choice. They are words of wisdom, or they are not.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But where are the texts in which Bahaullah explains in detail what kind of knowledge he has applied to come to his conclusion?

The Kitab-i-iqan is that book.

The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurry - I will provide a link since you have asked this question many times, also a couple of quotes;

This is the station of the Messengers;

"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers."

Now the firm answer you asked about;

"How impossible it is for one human being to understand the reality of another human soul; how much more inconceivable is it that any man could comprehend the nature of a Manifestation of God or correctly appraise the manifold and mysterious relationships that exist between the Manifestations in Their work as the Bearers of the Word of God to mankind. One aspect, however, is made abundantly clear by Shoghi Effendi in "The Dispensation of Bahá'u'lláh":"That Bahá'u'lláh should, notwithstanding the overwhelming intensity of His Revelation, be regarded as essentially one of these Manifestations of God, never to be identified with that invisible Reality, the Essence of Divinity itself, is one of the major beliefs of our Faith — a belief which should never be obscured and the integrity of which no one of its followers should allow to be compromised."

3 letters on this - Station of Baha'u'llah

"Baha'u'llah explains that there are differences in the levels of understanding of individuals. Some see the reflection of the Essence of God Himself in the temple of His Manifestation; others see the Manifestation as the Revealer of God and regard His commands and prohibitions to be identical with the ordinances of God. Both views, Bahá'u'lláh says, are acceptable, but if believers in expounding their points of view engage in contention and disputation, they would be rejected by God, inasmuch as the purpose of the Manifestation of God and the aim of His Teaching are to attract souls, create fellowship among men and promulgate the Cause of God."

Regards Tony

"One aspect, however, is made abundantly clear by Shoghi Effendi" Unquote.

It is not from Bahaullah, it is from Shoghi Effendi. And Shoghi Effendi is a non-entity about Bahaullah. Shoghi Effendi may be important for the Bahaism people, but not important in the issue.
Bahaullah's dependence on Shoghi Effendi for explanation on such an important matter reflects on the fallibility of Bahaullah. Right, please?

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"One aspect, however, is made abundantly clear by Shoghi Effendi" Unquote.

It is not from Bahaullah, it is from Shoghi Effendi. And Shoghi Effendi is a non-entity about Bahaullah. Shoghi Effendi may be important for the Bahaism people, but not important in the issue.
Bahaullah's dependence on Shoghi Effendi for explanation on such an important matter reflects on the fallibility of Bahaullah. Right, please?

Regards

Paarsurry - How many different groups of Islam are there now? Consider why are there divisions in a Faith that teaches of One God that has one book the Quran and ask, Why?

Then explain why a clear Covenant is seen by you as not an important issue?

Regards Tony