No Pagan pride here.

[Kcnorwood]

My wife & I have been part of a group called PPD ( Pagan Pride Day) See the website I posted below. They try to help edcuate people who still have thier hand in the sand about what Pagans believe & do. As some of you know we live in the biblebelt, which if you live here you know things can be hard at times for open Pagans. Some fellow Pagans we know were contacted by the PPD home office in Califorina, to start a Pagan Pride Day here. We never even got our first event off the ground, the local Pagan groups around here never wanted anything to do with it. It seems a couple years ago someone tried to start one & ended up trying to make money for themselves. Needless to say none of the groups here even cared to put thier two cents in, nor did they ever come to the monthly meetings. There are a list of requirements that we must meet according to the rules of PPD national. I guess they are ok IF you do not live in the biblebelt. We finally got a place to hold our event & even got a local pet shelter to let us publically say we're donating to them. It turned out that the Park service is runned by a local minister of one of the churches around here.
After we were told there are no fee's to use the park the guy in charge of the park system hit us with a bunch of fees. To make a long story short because of lack of involvement of the local Pagans around here & the fact that we keep getting stone walled by the park system. We have decided to end the group because of all the following reasons.

Sadly this I am taking this perhaps to personal because I think no matter what religion you might follow you should be able to pratice it openly. Untill this happens I guess some of us will try to hide what we believe.


I don't respect a reply to this I'm just ranting here.


The Pagan Pride Project Website

 

[stacey bo bacey]

I'm sorry to hear that. That's very unfortunate.



edit: can you appeal to someone higher or...well you said bible belt. I guess that answers that...

 

[Mike182]

That sucks.

 

[cheddarsox]

Our locality had one for a couple of years, but pretty much the same issue. Getting pagans organized is no easy task, and getting them to committ (myself included) is even harder, and an event like that takes committed people and lots of organization.

I applaud you for trying, and I understand the sort of situations you had to confront. I'm a pagan in the Bible belt as well, though honestly, I'm not sure that has that much to do with it. If you can get enough people really committed, they can pull anything off, no matter where they live.

Having been both the ointment and the fly in the ointment at different times, I can share some of my own reactions to this sort of situation, for what it's worth.

As a non-Wiccan pagan, I find myself unwilling to commit much time or money to another event that will probably end up being Wiccanesque/goddess related...and in my experience that is what most things labeled "pagan" end up being. The ritual is nearly always based on Wiccan ritual, using their terminology, etc. I played along for years, now I'm sort of tired of it.

Fluffy appeal...I put a lot of energy into presenting my faith as a valid respectable religion, and I go to "pagan" events and too often it's table after table of seasonal flower crowns, fairy wings, and anarchist bumper stickers. And I get to thinking...is THIS what we are? Is this how I want to be presented?

And the arts and crafts activity circle is making dream catchers...again.

So that is my rant...having been both a supporter and naysayer at different points in time.

Actually, the local pagan pride day has done some GREAT things...they had a voters registration booth one year, another time they had an ACLU lawyer come and talk about real pagan rights cases in our state/nation. We are trying to break free of our SCA warmed over stereotype and show our meatier side.

But...my knee jerk reaction, unfortunately is STILL what I posted above...oh no...not another Wiccan wannabe fairy fest with pot paraphanalia thrown in.

It's time for a larger pagan vision, and I think Pagan Pride Day IS all about that, but how to get the message out and people stirred up...I've yet to figure out. I did polls in my local group about what they wanted in the way of ritual/classes/events...made them happen and still no one showed up.

My suggestion...is to get your own group to host some smaller event, make it awesome and if people attend it and like it...slowly grow it toward greater involvement and work toward Pagan Pride day...

I think one of the issues is that...we often don't find much in our communities we are authentically proud of. If we do, you think we'd want to crow about it.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Actually, the local pagan pride day has done some GREAT things...they had a voters registration booth one year, another time they had an ACLU lawyer come and talk about real pagan rights cases in our state/nation. We are trying to break free of our SCA warmed over stereotype and show our meatier side.
My suggestion...is to get your own group to host some smaller event, make it awesome and if people attend it and like it...slowly grow it toward greater involvement and work toward Pagan Pride day...
I think one of the issues is that...we often don't find much in our communities we are authentically proud of. If we do, you think we'd want to crow about it.

Here it did hender us that the park supervisor was a minister when applying to get the paperwork for the park we kept being stonewalled & it never seemed to go though. PPD regional wanted us to fight it but with only four people it would of been a mute point. We would of came across as the crazy Pagans. The local private groups in our city do not care to be involved with anything outside thier group. Because of what happnaed a while back it seems that they want to bow out of getting involved. When approached by e-mail or anything else we never got a response. The local so called leaders of these groups made sure none of thier people got involved. The community has made it clear, repeatedly, after attempt and attempt
to spark involvement, that they are not interested in having a PPD here. We held
organizational meetings over and over, where no one new showed up. I think it's sad that they do not feel the need to stand up for what they believe. Those of us who did feel that this was worth starting a local PPD here do plan to start some sort of private group like you said & go from there.

 

[cheddarsox]

Here it did hender us that the park supervisor was a minister when applying to get the paperwork for the park we kept being stonewalled & it never seemed to go though. PPD regional wanted us to fight it but with only four people it would of been a mute point. We would of came across as the crazy Pagans. The local private groups in our city do not care to be involved with anything outside thier group. Because of what happnaed a while back it seems that they want to bow out of getting involved. When approached by e-mail or anything else we never got a response. The local so called leaders of these groups made sure none of thier people got involved. The community has made it clear, repeatedly, after attempt and attempt
to spark involvement, that they are not interested in having a PPD here. We held
organizational meetings over and over, where no one new showed up. I think it's sad that they do not feel the need to stand up for what they believe. Those of us who did feel that this was worth starting a local PPD here do plan to start some sort of private group like you said & go from there.

I think it's sad too, and I wonder if the local pagan community knew how you guys got stonewalled if that might not HELP get more people interested. The one thing that tend to motivates many pagans is being told "no"...then we're like "OH YEAH?" and all "you did NOT just say NO to me, who do you think you're talking to."

So...if you can get the word out about that, it might fan the fires.

I am humbled by your fortitude! I've been a slacker.

Here's an idea...if you can find a group with a space that is pagan friendly...start there. Do you have a local Unitarian Universalist fellowship? They might be willing to let you rent their space for a pagan pride event. Or a local alternative book shop...or something on that order. I'll bet there is a business or group out there that would see this as an asset to them to be involved. (or do the regulations state it has to take place on public space?)

I know the heartbrake of planning meetings to organize...and no one showing up. The frustration that leads to. That is one reason I left the leadership position at my pagan group...too much frustration and heart ache for too little pay off. But I'm feeling like it's time for me to get my hand in the game again.

 

[Kcnorwood]

I think it's sad too, and I wonder if the local pagan community knew how you guys got stonewalled if that might not HELP get more people interested. The one thing that tend to motivates many pagans is being told "no"...then we're like "OH YEAH?" and all "you did NOT just say NO to me, who do you think you're talking to."

So...if you can get the word out about that, it might fan the fires.

They knew we had a website posting what was going on & such so thats not an excuse.


I am humbled by your fortitude! I've been a slacker.
Thank you the for me & my wife who are trying to have kids was that they could openly state thier faith without being looked down upon. Same for other Pagan parents the leader of our group has 4 kids & one with Autism, & he's studying to be a teacher.

Here's an idea...if you can find a group with a space that is pagan friendly...start there. Do you have a local Unitarian Universalist fellowship? They might be willing to let you rent their space for a pagan pride event. Or a local alternative book shop...or something on that order. I'll bet there is a business or group out there that would see this as an asset to them to be involved. (or do the regulations state it has to take place on public space?)

The local UU church is part of the problem they wanted nothing to do with us. Same can be said for the other local groups, I personally know one of the local leaders to one of them & I know for a fact they were told NOT to come.The sad thing is that I personally passed out fliers even to the local Pagan shops they had all the info they need to to get involved, & had all the time to help us with ideas & such. Yes. PPD regional office says we have to use public space.



I know the heartbrake of planning meetings to organize...and no one showing up. The frustration that leads to. That is one reason I left the leadership position at my pagan group...too much frustration and heart ache for too little pay off. But I'm feeling like it's time for me to get my hand in the game again.

Hopefully starting a smaller group will that will have real meetings & such will help only time will tell.

 

[Zephyr]

As a non-Wiccan pagan, I find myself unwilling to commit much time or money to another event that will probably end up being Wiccanesque/goddess related...and in my experience that is what most things labeled "pagan" end up being. The ritual is nearly always based on Wiccan ritual, using their terminology, etc. I played along for years, now I'm sort of tired of it.

Fluffy appeal...I put a lot of energy into presenting my faith as a valid respectable religion, and I go to "pagan" events and too often it's table after table of seasonal flower crowns, fairy wings, and anarchist bumper stickers. And I get to thinking...is THIS what we are? Is this how I want to be presented?

And the arts and crafts activity circle is making dream catchers...again.

This is a good part of the issue of organizing Pagans. Outside of Heathen meetings, I have yet to see a generalized Pagan meeting that didn't turn into a Wiccanfest or general fluff-party.

 

[Azakel]

This is a good part of the issue of organizing Pagans. Outside of Heathen meetings, I have yet to see a generalized Pagan meeting that didn't turn into a Wiccanfest or general fluff-party.

And it's kind of sad really.

 

[Zephyr]

And it's kind of sad really.

As it stands though, I'm pretty alright with it I guess. After all, it'd be like having an "Abrahamic Religion Pride Fest" or something of the sort. It just doesn't work all to well.

 

[Kcnorwood]

This is a good part of the issue of organizing Pagans. Outside of Heathen meetings, I have yet to see a generalized Pagan meeting that didn't turn into a Wiccanfest or general fluff-party.

The local one my wife & I were memebers of for a bit were just that. In the 6 months or so we were members there was only one meetup & no one really talked about anything but fluff. I'm guessing thats just one reason why they didn't care to join in.

 

[Azakel]

As it stands though, I'm pretty alright with it I guess. After all, it'd be like having an "Abrahamic Religion Pride Fest" or something of the sort. It just doesn't work all to well.

You do have a point. Though it doesn't mean we all can't be friend ^_^(that not to fluffy is it.....?)

 

[Mike182]

I will defend some multi-Pagan groups, because the group I'm part of at Uni is a great group with lots of knowledgeable members, we organise rituals that cover a wide spectrum of Pagan traditions, do talks/seminars on different Pagan topics, we don't have many Fluffies at all, and the group works really well.

Not all multi-Pagan groups are doomed to Wiccan domination, but I can certainly see why that opinion is so prevailant.

 

[cheddarsox]

As it stands though, I'm pretty alright with it I guess. After all, it'd be like having an "Abrahamic Religion Pride Fest" or something of the sort. It just doesn't work all to well.

That is sort of where I am with it. At the point where I'm thinking, if things don't happen organically...then they aren't going to happen, or they probably aren't worth pushing. If/when people of like spirituality choose to meet and do something worthwhile, we will, and if we don't...forcing it isn't going to make a magical change take place.

I've done it both ways...organized events/people and the organic has always turned out the most fruitful, and worthwhile.

I've gotten more honest about examining my own motivation for being involved in such things as well...asking myself why something matters to ME, if the motivation is one that deserves to be acted upon.

Sometimes I get involved for some pretty stupid reasons.

I like getting together with people. That's a good, solid, honest reason. Trying to push my agenda or prove something to someone is IMO, not. So, clearing up my own motivations has helped me a great deal in knowing what to put my energy into.

 

[cheddarsox]

Kcnorwood,

What burns me most about this sort of thing is that is has a tendency to burn good hearted people out. It sounds like your community, both pagan and otherwise, aren't ready for this.

I'm really feeling like I want some real time community lately...so much so that I've been thinking about revisiting the UU church I was part of for several years, and left in burn out and frustration, or at least the CUUPs group there...that I also left in burn out and frustration...

I'm trying to find a better way of creating authentic community than "let's not do much of anything, because it might make someone uncomfortable" which just makes me feel like I'm wasting my time.

I spent years creating celebrations, rituals, spiritual events and inviting people, and they came and they liked it...but they rarely if ever returned the favor. That gets expensive on several levels. Truly, I couldn't afford to keep doing it, energy wise or financially...like running one's own church without donations. But I miss it.

I have lots of online community...but I miss seeing other people round the bonfire.

What state are you in? I'm in upstate South Carolina

 

[Kcnorwood]

Kcnorwood,

What burns me most about this sort of thing is that is has a tendency to burn good hearted people out. It sounds like your community, both pagan and otherwise, aren't ready for this.

I'm really feeling like I want some real time community lately...so much so that I've been thinking about revisiting the UU church I was part of for several years, and left in burn out and frustration, or at least the CUUPs group there...that I also left in burn out and frustration...

I'm trying to find a better way of creating authentic community than "let's not do much of anything, because it might make someone uncomfortable" which just makes me feel like I'm wasting my time.

I spent years creating celebrations, rituals, spiritual events and inviting people, and they came and they liked it...but they rarely if ever returned the favor. That gets expensive on several levels. Truly, I couldn't afford to keep doing it, energy wise or financially...like running one's own church without donations. But I miss it.

I have lots of online community...but I miss seeing other people round the bonfire.

What state are you in? I'm in upstate South Carolina

Same state as your in but Columbia. As I've said before the local CUUPS group thats here wanted nothing to do with have a local PPD. Most around here have online groups but nothing ever comes of it, Which leads me to believe they are for the most part fluff. It does burn people out you take the time & find a place to have the meetings & pass out fliers to local bussiness. Yes it would be nice to see people sitting around the bonfire. Sadly people go up to N.C for those things.

 

[3.14]

make online page with chat log, then tell pagens they can come there and talk ask and respond, (also good feature to add to it is a webcamframe so other people can see who are also pagens. meeting fysicly might not be possible but on the internet is easyer anyway

 

[cheddarsox]

Same state as your in but Columbia. As I've said before the local CUUPS group thats here wanted nothing to do with have a local PPD. Most around here have online groups but nothing ever comes of it, Which leads me to believe they are for the most part fluff. It does burn people out you take the time & find a place to have the meetings & pass out fliers to local bussiness. Yes it would be nice to see people sitting around the bonfire. Sadly people go up to N.C for those things.

Well...if I figure out how to set up a fire pit at our new house...(a house on a wooded lot seemed like a good idea at the time)...Columbia isn't all that far away, maybe we can get some frustrations out round a good old fashioned fire. And our heads together over some other things!

I agree, a lot of the action takes place in NC...gone there myself for several things. But it's time to bring the fun home!

 

[Kcnorwood]

make online page with chat log, then tell pagens they can come there and talk ask and respond, (also good feature to add to it is a webcamframe so other people can see who are also pagens. meeting fysicly might not be possible but on the internet is easyer anyway

We're going to but the whole idea is to meet other who share the same belief not just chat online with them, you can do that any where.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Well...if I figure out how to set up a fire pit at our new house...(a house on a wooded lot seemed like a good idea at the time)...Columbia isn't all that far away, maybe we can get some frustrations out round a good old fashioned fire. And our heads together over some other things!

I agree, a lot of the action takes place in NC...gone there myself for several things. But it's time to bring the fun home!

Like I said at some point the 4 of us who still would like to do something to plan do make up some sort of private group, so we don't have to conform to those rules that PPD reglional has. Hut your idea does have some merit!