No Prayer Allowed?

fromthe heart · Jan 19, 2005

I saw on the news that the same guy that wanted 'Under God" taken out of the pledge is at it again. Now he doesn't want a prayer at the innauguration ceremony. Now... I know this could be a big deal to some but since this is Bush's ceremony shouldn't he be the one with the say as to what goes on? I have to wonder if this guy would like it much if he had a ceremony and the president said that he MUST PRAY. Isn't this deal the same in both directions? What do all of you think? Is this guy just wanting attention in these petions to the courts?

Sunstone · Jan 19, 2005

I have no problem with an inagural prayer. Maybe I need more coffee this morning before considering this issue, but I don't think an inagural prayer is quite the same thing legally as the question of whether "under god" should be in the pledge. Just my caffeine deprived thoughts on the matter.

fromthe heart · Jan 19, 2005

Sunstone said:
I have no problem with an inagural prayer. Maybe I need more coffee this morning before considering this issue, but I don't think an inagural prayer is quite the same thing legally as the question of whether "under god" should be in the pledge. Just my caffeine deprived thoughts on the matter.

I only refered to this because this was the guys LAST complaint...I agree they aren't the same. I just don't see where this guy get's off being offended by this...So don't watch the inauguration if the prayer offends you.

Pah · Jan 19, 2005

fromthe heart said:
I only refered to this because this was the guys LAST complaint...I agree they aren't the same. I just don't see where this guy get's off being offended by this...So don't watch the inauguration if the prayer offends you.

A Christian prayer at the inauguration means that the ceremony for the beginning of the presidential term is seeking favor from a Christian God. May Americans would be offended by that symbolic act.

fromthe heart · Jan 19, 2005

pah said:
A Christian prayer at the inauguration means that the ceremony for the beginning of the presidential term is seeking favor from a Christian God. May Americans would be offended by that symbolic act.

I understand that point but if you have a Christian president then why not...if he was president worshiping Buddah I wouldn't object to a ceremony reflecting that either. Is it fair to ask is there too much emphasis put on some things to be politically correct? No matter what the situation isn't someone always going to take exception to something?

Sunstone · Jan 19, 2005

Personally, I don't think god listens to Bush, anyway. So, Bush's inagural prayer is likely wasted. Maybe he should sacrifice a lamb instead and read it's entrails.

retrorich · Jan 19, 2005

I think that prayer has no place in government. Period.

cfer · Jan 19, 2005

pah said:
A Christian prayer at the inauguration means that the ceremony for the beginning of the presidential term is seeking favor from a Christian God. May Americans would be offended by that symbolic act.

I don't see any problem with it. It's not like they're ramming the prayer down anyone's throat. If you want to join in the prayer, go ahead. If you don't want to, don't. It's that simple. They're not persecuting anyone who doesn't join in the prayer.

Also, who's to say that Bush isn't praying to his God to give him guidance? Shouldn't everyone be allowed to ask their own personal god for guidance and assistance if they want to? If my god were the almighty computer, wouldn't it be my right to ask for the PCAlmighty to grant me 1s and 0s so that I might lead properly and make difficult decisions?

Pah · Jan 19, 2005

fromthe heart said:
I understand that point but if you have a Christian president then why not...if he was president worshiping Buddah I wouldn't object to a ceremony reflecting that either. Is it fair to ask is there too much emphasis put on some things to be politically correct? No matter what the situation isn't someone always going to take exception to something?

No, you do not understand the point. No public government ceremony should have ANY faith attached.

It is NOT a matter of political correctness but a fundamental right to hold or not to hold a faith of one's choice and not to be subjected to someone else's faith.

Pah · Jan 19, 2005

cfer said:
I don't see any problem with it. It's not like they're ramming the prayer down anyone's throat. If you want to join in the prayer, go ahead. If you don't want to, don't. It's that simple. They're not persecuting anyone who doesn't join in the prayer.

Also, who's to say that Bush isn't praying to his God to give him guidance? Shouldn't everyone be allowed to ask their own personal god for guidance and assistance if they want to? If my god were the almighty computer, wouldn't it be my right to ask for the PCAlmighty to grant me 1s and 0s so that I might lead properly and make difficult decisions?

Why would you see a problem with a Christian prayer? It suits you doesn't it?

I should not have to watch a president elected by non-christians have an invocation uttered in the name of Christ. That IS ramming the prayer down anyone's throat.

Let Bush prayer on his own time and not the government's time.

t3gah · Jan 19, 2005

fromthe heart said:
I saw on the news that the same guy that wanted 'Under God" taken out of the pledge is at it again. Now he doesn't want a prayer at the innauguration ceremony. Now... I know this could be a big deal to some but since this is Bush's ceremony shouldn't he be the one with the say as to what goes on? I have to wonder if this guy would like it much if he had a ceremony and the president said that he MUST PRAY. Isn't this deal the same in both directions? What do all of you think? Is this guy just wanting attention in these petions to the courts?

pah started a thread about this guy and I have the web link for this guys official gripes (http://[size=-1]www.restorethepledge.com/[/size])

Here's the story about the President and the prayer:

(CNN.com - Judge denies atheist's lawsuit to prevent prayer at Bush ...[size=-1]... US District Judge John Bates said Michael Newdow had no legal basis to pursue his claim because he could not show he would suffer any injury from hearing the ... http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/14/inauguration.prayer.ap)[/size]

Isis-Astoroth · Jan 19, 2005

Religion and Government should NEVER go to together in my opinion. No 'under God', no prayer at the innauguration. Full Stop. If it was my choice all countries would have an atheist leader, but that's another point of discussion.

anders · Jan 19, 2005

I'll never understand USAians. Not even the Christian Democratic Party in Sweden invokes their God in political settings.

Mr Spinkles · Jan 19, 2005

anders said:
I'll never understand USAians.

Please, call us Americans, or Yanks if you must...anything but "USAians".

I don't personally agree with a Christian President praying to a Christian God at his inaugural service, or a Satanist President praying to Satan, or an atheist President giving a talk about how there is no God....however, the President is a citizen, and he should have the legal right to free speech even if some of us disagree with what he says.

No*s · Jan 19, 2005

I, for one, could see FTH's position. Just as the nation is free to practice its faith, let the president have the prayer he chooses. If he's a Buddhist, Satanist, atheist, Jew, whatever, let him have the prayer he wants. In that way we better symbolize our pluralism than with its absence.

cfer · Jan 19, 2005

No*s said:
I, for one, could see FTH's position. Just as the nation is free to practice its faith, let the president have the prayer he chooses. If he's a Buddhist, Satanist, atheist, Jew, whatever, let him have the prayer he wants. In that way we better symbolize our pluralism than with its absence.

Very well put. That is the perfect way to show Freedom of Speech (and also Freedom of Religion).

Thou hast gained thyself some frubals.

Jayhawker Soule · Jan 19, 2005

Devastation in Asia, genocide in Darfur, an aids crisis sweeping Africa, war in Iraq, and Newdow is worried about a prayer? The man needs a sense of priorities.

No*s · Jan 19, 2005

Aw tanks

.

Pah · Jan 19, 2005

cfer said:
Very well put. That is the perfect way to show Freedom of Speech (and also Freedom of Religion).

Thou hast gained thyself some frubals.

I might enlighten you a bit (or maybe it's just a reminder) - the government has NO freedom of religion (it must have NONE according to the First Amendment.. This is a government event - quite different from the balls that will be held that night. I think it a bit of irony that the government portion of the day will have prayer but there is no prayer gathering during the privately sponsered night-time events. Will any of the balls open with prayer?

No*s · Jan 19, 2005

pah said:
I might enlighten you a bit (or maybe it's just a reminder) - the government has NO freedom of religion (it must have NONE according to the First Amendment.. This is a government event - quite different from the balls that will be held that night. I think it a bit of irony that the government portion of the day will have prayer but there is no prayer gathering during the privately sponsered night-time events. Will any of the balls open with prayer?

That is a strong point, and frankly, I think it demonstrates some hypocrisy on the part of our leaders

. I wish that weren't the case.

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