Non-Binary

[crossfire]

Then you provided a couple of links, thanks.

The second link said what I thought I knew: Preventative breast surgeries are recommended for SOME women, women who might be at risk of cancer for various reasons.

But people without mental health conditions do not want parts of their body removed unless there is strong evidence that such surgeries will improve their PHYSICAL health.

I still think you're comparing apples to oranges, in other words you're comparing physical ailments to mental ailments.

Any woman who gets a mastectomy before getting cancer reduces her chances of developing cancer by 90%.

Are you saying that young women who want to remove their breasts are mentally ill? See post #276.

You are making the claim of mental illness in association with wanting to remove breasts. I don't think this is the case. However, I will humor you. Do you think a mentally ill woman is equipped to deal with breast cancer? She has a 1 in 8 chance of developing it without her desired surgery. The surgery will greatly reduce her odds of getting breast cancer. I would think this would be a no-brainer, whether the person is mentally ill or not.

Alright, what if a young woman wanted her breasts removed for intuitions that should couldn't quite make clear, but was denied due to legislation that some transphobe yahoos put in place, and later developed breast cancer that could have been prevented if she had been allowed to follow her intuition regarding her own body? How would this affect the mental state of her and her family regarding the yahoos who prevented her from getting the surgery?

 

[crossfire]

@crossfire - Are those really sincere questions? Do you really think that's what I was suggesting?

Yes, that is exactly what it appears you are suggesting by these words:

But people without mental health conditions do not want parts of their body removed unless there is strong evidence that such surgeries will improve their PHYSICAL health.

 

[Kfox]

If YOU are describing her,

No! I'm not describing her, respond in the context of what YOU believe. Again; what do you know about Sam?

I am not the one making any such claim.

Neither am I

 

[Kfox]

Then you already know the answer. No one here, myself included, argues otherwise that xx makes eggs/female sexed or that xy makes sperm/male sexed...

But you do get that there is still a distinction between sex and gender no?

Do you? If so, why did you make a reference to the medical field as experts when it comes to gender, unless you see gender as a synonym for sexual biology?

 

[We Never Know]

Any woman who gets a mastectomy before getting cancer reduces her chances of developing cancer by 90%.

Are you saying that young women who want to remove their breasts are mentally ill? See post #276.

You are making the claim of mental illness in association with wanting to remove breasts. I don't think this is the case. However, I will humor you. Do you think a mentally ill woman is equipped to deal with breast cancer? She has a 1 in 8 chance of developing it without her desired surgery. The surgery will greatly reduce her odds of getting breast cancer. I would think this would be a no-brainer, whether the person is mentally ill or not.

No they aren't. Are you confusing breast reduction and mastectomy?

They said...

Then you provided a couple of links, thanks.

The second link said what I thought I knew: Preventative breast surgeries are recommended for SOME women, women who might be at risk of cancer for various reasons.

But people without mental health conditions do not want parts of their body removed unless there is strong evidence that such surgeries will improve their PHYSICAL health.

I still think you're comparing apples to oranges, in other words you're comparing physical ailments to mental ailments.

The number one reason for breast reduction surgery is to improve physical health.

"There is only one place to begin when it comes to breast reduction surgery, and this is with the fact that it can help to reduce chronic shoulder, neck, and/or back pain"

Top 3 Reasons Why Women Choose Breast Reduction Surgery - West Michigan Plastic Surgery

Are you tired of your breasts weighing you down and causing back pain? Maybe you feel self-conscious about the size of your breasts? If so, you may want to consider breast reduction surgery. There are a number of different reasons why people decide to go for this treatment from Western Michigan...

www.wmips.com

The main reason 'young' women get a mastectomy is breast cancer.

"Risk-reducing mastectomy
Between 2005 and 2012, the percentage of young women who chose a risk-reducing mastectomy increased from 10.5% to 33%. This includes women who have had breast cancer in one breast and choose to have the other removed. Reasons for this increase may include fear of developing breast cancer again or a desire for breast symmetry after reconstructive surgery"

Breast surgery for young women with early-stage breast cancer: Mastectomy or breast-conserving therapy?

Whether breast-conserving therapy (BCT) should be chosen as a local treatment for young women with early-stage breast cancer is controversial. This study compared the survival benefits of BCT or mastectomy in young women under 40 with early-stage breast ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[icehorse]

Yes, that is exactly what it appears you are suggesting by these words:

Somewhere along the line our contexts got out of synch.

 

[crossfire]

No they aren't. Are you confusing breast reduction and mastectomy?

Either one will greatly reduce the chances of developing breast cancer

They said...




The number one reason for breast reduction surgery is to improve physical health.

"There is only one place to begin when it comes to breast reduction surgery, and this is with the fact that it can help to reduce chronic shoulder, neck, and/or back pain"

Top 3 Reasons Why Women Choose Breast Reduction Surgery - West Michigan Plastic Surgery

Are you tired of your breasts weighing you down and causing back pain? Maybe you feel self-conscious about the size of your breasts? If so, you may want to consider breast reduction surgery. There are a number of different reasons why people decide to go for this treatment from Western Michigan...

www.wmips.com

See post #276

The main reason 'young' women get a mastectomy is breast cancer.

"Risk-reducing mastectomy
Between 2005 and 2012, the percentage of young women who chose a risk-reducing mastectomy increased from 10.5% to 33%. This includes women who have had breast cancer in one breast and choose to have the other removed. Reasons for this increase may include fear of developing breast cancer again or a desire for breast symmetry after reconstructive surgery"

Breast surgery for young women with early-stage breast cancer: Mastectomy or breast-conserving therapy?

Whether breast-conserving therapy (BCT) should be chosen as a local treatment for young women with early-stage breast cancer is controversial. This study compared the survival benefits of BCT or mastectomy in young women under 40 with early-stage breast ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Either procedure will greatly reduce the risk of breast cancer, regardless of the reason why the woman wants the procedure. Why stand in their way of getting this health benefit? It doesn't do any harm to anyone else, and it is of benefit to the recipient. Win-win.

 

[crossfire]

Somewhere along the line our contexts got out of synch.

Once again, given the health benefits of breast reductions and mastectomies, is there any reason to deny young women the procedure when they wish to get it (for whatever reason they may have for getting it?) I don't see any reason to deny them, given the health benefits they will get with no harm to anyone. Would you deny any procedure with long lasting health benefits if it wasn't also something transpersons might seek?

 

[McBell]

No! I'm not describing her, respond in the context of what YOU believe. Again; what do you know about Sam?

Who then is describing her?
Someone made the judgement of woman in the description.

What do I know from the provided description?
There is a person named Sam who is 5'9".
SOMEONE, no idea who, says this person is a woman.


If the description is how Sam describes them self, then she is a 5'9" woman named Sam.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So where is the meaning of a word that nobody knows what you are talking about when you speak it?

Well, that is not possible as you stated the case as the user of the word knows the meaning and then you can ask. So it is not so that nobody knows the meaning. In fact that is how new words can start and at least in some cases have started so.

 

[crossfire]

Alright, if a young under aged cis-man developed breasts for some reason such as gynecomastia, would you deny him the gender affirming surgery of having them removed?

 

[Kfox]

Who then is describing her?

Someone who divorces gender from biology; just like you.

What do I know from the provided description?
There is a person named Sam who is 5'9".
SOMEONE, no idea who, says this person is a woman.

What does it mean to you, that Sam is described as a woman?

 

[Kfox]

Well, that is not possible as you stated the case as the user of the word knows the meaning and then you can ask.

Yes! You have to ask because only the user of the word knows the meaning; but to everybody else the word is meaningless; so the user of the word has to use other words to clarify. If the word had meaning, the user of the word wouldn't have to use other words to clarify.

 

[Kfox]

Alright, if a young under aged cis-man developed breasts for some reason such as gynecomastia, would you deny him the gender affirming surgery of having them removed?

Surgery for gynecomastia is not gender affirming surgery, it is a medical issue.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes! You have to ask because only the user of the word knows the meaning; but to everybody else the word is meaningless; so the user of the word has to use other words to clarify. If the word had meaning, the user of the word wouldn't have to use other words to clarify.

But the word has meaning to the user. What is the problem of clarity and remeber please use objective evidence as it has to be universal and not subjective to you.

 

[Kfox]

But the word has meaning to the user.

But it's meaningless to everybody else!

What is the problem of clarity

In my scenario, if I have to clarify woman as a person with a uterus, why not just describe her as a person with a uterus rather than using a word requiring clarification?

and remeber please use objective evidence as it has to be universal and not subjective to you.

We are voicing opinions here. Opinions are not always going to be objective.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But it's meaningless to everybody else!

In my scenario, if I have to clarify woman as a person with a uterus, why not just describe her as a person with a uterus rather than using a word requiring clarification?

We are voicing opinions here. Opinions are not always going to be objective.

Correct, none of this as meaningless is anything else that opinions for all of us. That is the point and that includes your point of what makes gender gender or not.

 

[crossfire]

Surgery for gynecomastia is not gender affirming surgery, it is a medical issue.

for 1 in 6 boys?

One in six boys develops breasts during puberty

It is normal, and the condition goes away on its own after puberty in 90% of cases. Read more at straitstimes.com.

www.straitstimes.com

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Surgery for gynecomastia is not gender affirming surgery, it is a medical issue.

Technically, it's both. Gynecomastia is most often harmless, so there is often not strictly speaking a medical reason for surgery to be done on it - it's usually done for purely aesthetic reasons; in other words, people tend to do it so that they physically conform to the gender they see themselves as.

So, yeah, it is a form of gender affirming surgery.

 

[McBell]

Someone who divorces gender from biology; just like you.

What does it mean to you, that Sam is described as a woman?

How about instead of fishing for it, you just reveal the answer you want to hear?