nathanielfirst
Member
hello, I was wondering if there was a subsect of Smartas, Shaktis, Vashnaivites or Shaivites that is anti caste, opposed to the caste system?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
non-caste denomination hinduism?
- Thread starter nathanielfirst
- Start date
kaisersose
Active Member
Veerashaivas were formed as a rebellion to the caste system/Vedas back in 900 AD. They are the dominant population of Karnataka.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
The Shakti Tantras speak out very clearly against the nonflexable caste system. It is tradition in Assam for even low caste people to be priests in mother temples. Tantras say that all devotees of the mother are the same caste.
Last edited:
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
The Ramakrishna order of monks have always rejected caste. All devotees have always eaten together. There are monks of all caste's. It is from them that Gandhi got many of his ideas on this subject.
Last edited:
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
yes...
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
I don't know much about them, could you share something some time?
The caste system is actually cultural, not religious. The varna system is based on inclinations, not birth, and you don't have to believe it to be part of any of those denominations.
kaisersose
Active Member
The varna system is based solely on birth and nothing else.
A Brahmana has to have a valid gotra - paternal ancestry tracing back to one of eight Rishis. Else. he/she is not a Brahmana - pure and simple. This is not a new age creation. This is the way it has been for at least 3000 years. Satyakama Jabala's story is among the earliest examples of a birth based varna system.
In modern times, some religious organizations seeking a global presence and foreign donations have reinterpreted the varna system to mean anyone can become a Brahmana.
What do you base this on?
What are you basing that off of? That's nothing I ever heard.
And what do you base this statement on?
I do not know that story.
How do you know what their motivations are?
I don't think we should find this a problem, albeit interesting academically.
I see people posting here and my impression is that they are above the representation of Brahmana, as the Lord describes in Srimad Bhagavata SK111. Ch29, 31-35: as these people are putting all doubts to an end and moving beyond worldy attachments mentally. Brahmanas might be able to achieve this with more ease due to the "hierarchy of beings", but there is no reason that any person may not match the higher qualities if their karma is right. After all, who is the the controller if not the Lord Himself....
"(31) Among them is a society with four classes the better one and to those is the brahmin the best. Moreover among the brahmins is certainly the one who knows the Vedas the better one and better than him is the one who knows of its purpose [to know the absolute of the truth in three phases: brahman, paramâtmâ and bhagavân]. (32) Better than the one knowing of the purpose is the one who puts all doubts to an end and better than him is the one who does the duties set for him. Of the ones free from worldy attachment with that is the righteous one who doesn't do it for himself the best one. (33) Therefore I know of no greater being than a person who with a dedicated mind has offered all of his actions, wealth and life unreserved unto Me, working with no other interest and not separating himself. (34) Mindful does such a one show respect for all these living beings, thus regarding the Supreme Lord, the Controller of the individual soul, as having entered them by His expansion as the Supersoul [the paramâtmâ]. (35) Of the devotional service and yoga I described, o daughter of Manu, can by either one of the two alone a person achieve the Original Person. (36) This form of the Supreme Lord of brahman [the Supreme Spirit] and paramâtmâ [the personalized local aspect] is the transcendental Original Person of the primal reality [pradhâna] whose activities are all spiritual."
Last edited:
Hi OdionI don't know much about them, could you share something some time?
There is a post started by Wannabe on Vivekananda I think, which captures some thoughts on Ramakrishna Mission.
Almost all my books are published by them (Advaitaashrama), and I personally make comparisons to online translations to keep myself in check, I have not been disappointed and praise their work. I am in high respect of the Ramakrishna Mission. To my knowledge they do not see, Caste/varana, Gender, race or nationality as an issue. For me this is cutting the fat to get to the truth.
They do take a missionary approach, with male monks. Personally I do not see being a monk as a strict requirement to successfully following SD. Rather it is helpful for those with that predisposition (karma) and those with a different Karma may become a householder or other role in life. The point is it is karma and our nature which brings us to our path. Lord Krishna confirms we should follow that rather than take up another's path at risk. The result is good.
WayFarer
Rogue Scholar
Wannabe Yogi, I would like to thank you. Yet another of your posts have lead me to broadening my knowledge and appreciation for all sincere seekers of (spiritual) wisdom. I was unaware of Sri Ramakrishna until your post planted that particular seed of curiosity.
Thank you both.
:namaste
Onkarah, I find yet another of your posts sagacious and could not agree more.Personally I do not see being a monk as a strict requirement to successfully following SD. Rather it is helpful for those with that predisposition (karma) and those with a different Karma may become a householder or other role in life. The point is it is karma and our nature which brings us to our path. Lord Krishna confirms we should follow that rather than take up another's path at risk. The result is good.
Thank you both.
:namaste
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
They do take a missionary approach, with male monks.
The funny thing is they use to have female monks. In the mid 20th century they created a new organization. The Sarada Math is completely run by women. They have their own centers and leadership. The order gave up much property and monks due to their sense of equality. It was not fair for women monks to be under the feet of male superiors.
Last edited:
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I think you are right I see the RK order as having a bias towards monks. The order is also not producing the numbers of saints that they use to. Many monks will tell you the all religious orders start to slip from the truth over time. This I see as the straight of Hinduism. The lack of a governing body allows for the search for truth. So each generation can apply the eternal teachings of Dharma to the time specific circumstances they live in.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I don't understand. Satyakama Jabalas's mom was a prostitute not a Brahman. She did not know who his father was. He was said to be a Brahman for one reason he told the truth. This story shows that the caste system was flexible in the Vedic times. People moved up and down because of the assets of their personality.
The story of Satyakama Jabala
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1660851-post8.html
Last edited:
Hi Wannabe
I didn't know about the female order, the Sarada Math. I am pleased to know that.
I pick up in the slight promotion of the monastical approach in their more open publications (i.e. not strict translation of scriptures). I find that Sri Adi Shankaracharya took the approach also that realisation would imply that man may renunciate his weath and family and wander, living on alms alone. Personally my view is different, as in post 14 above, as I feel that it is all the will of the Lord, even if the desire to be a householder is considered unnecessary, the role may still continue for the "body-mind" of the realised soul.
I didn't know about the female order, the Sarada Math. I am pleased to know that.
I pick up in the slight promotion of the monastical approach in their more open publications (i.e. not strict translation of scriptures). I find that Sri Adi Shankaracharya took the approach also that realisation would imply that man may renunciate his weath and family and wander, living on alms alone. Personally my view is different, as in post 14 above, as I feel that it is all the will of the Lord, even if the desire to be a householder is considered unnecessary, the role may still continue for the "body-mind" of the realised soul.